• Announcements

    • Nemesis

      Contact Us Broken   09/27/2016

      Users, It has come to our attention that the contact us feature on the site is broken.  Please do not use this feature to contact board admins.  Please go through normal channels.  If you are ignored there then assume your request was denied. Also if you try to email us that email address is pretty much ignored.  Also don't contact us to complain, ask for favors, donations, or any other thing that you may think would annoy us.  Nemesis
Atheist Mormon

I don't get you about this, believers of supernatural.....

196 posts in this topic

Why follow another Human being who claims to be an emissary of God, without offering a shred of evidence.....Starting from Jesus, Apostle Paul to Joseph Smith......What is the fascination when we know these guys did not deliver what they promised......My incredulity about most you goes like this; I know you are well educated, well reasoned about the reality...But when it comes to this faith thing you just unclad most of your reasonings and stick this fantastic story where never was able to deliver any part of it's story as reality......

It is so obvious that all these stories are mythical and made up; there was never a Virgin Birth or a "First Vision" as Joseph narrated.....The real Story came from Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein....How long are you willing to pursue this dream of "Afterlife"?  

2

Share this post


Link to post

I bet you no such thing as prophets and raise you no afterlife?

1

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Who exactly is this 'we' you reference here? I am a Latter-day Saint specifically because the whole experience delivers perfectly on its promises -- reliably, consistently and predictably.

What was delivered exactly? Looks like I missed the train....

0

Share this post


Link to post
21 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

What was delivered exactly? Looks like I missed the train....

If you were a blind man, how would I be able to describe the color yellow to you?   If I had several spiritual experiences which I knew happened without me being able to consciously turn it on and off, the only thing I can do is to bear testimony.  In turn, you might receive the 'impressions' of the spirit confirming my statement.  Which you might become aware of OR you could be insensible.  If you did detect the spirit, you might choose to discount it.  What kind of experiences have you had?

3

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Why follow another Human being who claims to be an emissary of God, without offering a shred of evidence.....Starting from Jesus, Apostle Paul to Joseph Smith......What is the fascination when we know these guys did not deliver what they promised......My incredulity about most you goes like this; I know you are well educated, well reasoned about the reality...But when it comes to this faith thing you just unclad most of your reasonings and stick this fantastic story where never was able to deliver any part of it's story as reality......

It is so obvious that all these stories are mythical and made up; there was never a Virgin Birth or a "First Vision" as Joseph narrated.....The real Story came from Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein....How long are you willing to pursue this dream of "Afterlife"?  

Lets look at this as sort of business investment.  Lets say there is no afterlife and all these stories are false.  What do I lose by believing them?  Sure I might lose a little money in tithing and time in going to church and other related things but none of that will bother me when I die and find out there is no afterlife. I will not exist to care.  Nor will you exist to spike the ball in front of me and say "I told you so."  But if there is an afterlife then perhaps my investment of money (tith and offerings) and time (attending church meetings ect) could come with a HUGE payoff.    Your position if right has no upside at death.  Marginal upside before death.  If you are wrong you have no upside if there is an afterlife and only downside.  My position only as marginal downside before death and a potential big windfall if correct.  I have seen enough evidences that convince me I am on the right path.  Perhaps it would not convince you but that is ok.  As long as its sufficient to convince me, that is all that is required. 

If the real story is told by Darwin or Einstein, that is truly a sad, miserable story in the end.  We are just animals and our existence ends at death.  Nothing in our lives really matters in the end anyway so why care about anything.

Edited by carbon dioxide
4

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Why follow another Human being who claims to be an emissary of God, without offering a shred of evidence.....Starting from Jesus, Apostle Paul to Joseph Smith......What is the fascination when we know these guys did not deliver what they promised......My incredulity about most you goes like this; I know you are well educated, well reasoned about the reality...But when it comes to this faith thing you just unclad most of your reasonings and stick this fantastic story where never was able to deliver any part of it's story as reality......

It is so obvious that all these stories are mythical and made up; there was never a Virgin Birth or a "First Vision" as Joseph narrated.....The real Story came from Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein....How long are you willing to pursue this dream of "Afterlife"?  

Quote

I don't get you about this, believers of supernatural.....

Haven't we been over this before?  Mormon theology rejects the supernatural in favor of humanism and a naturalistic God and universe (or multiverse).  This has major implications for all other faith claims made by Mormonism.  For example, although it is plainly not possible to scientifically prove that there was an Exodus of Israel, that Jesus was the actual Son of God, or even that there is a God (of our genus and species), there are many other substantive issues which are subject to forensic investigation -- leading to verification or denial.  You are wise to reject the supernatural, but why throw the baby out with the bathwater?

 

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Why follow another Human being who claims to be an emissary of God, without offering a shred of evidence.....Starting from Jesus, Apostle Paul to Joseph Smith......What is the fascination when we know these guys did not deliver what they promised......My incredulity about most you goes like this; I know you are well educated, well reasoned about the reality...But when it comes to this faith thing you just unclad most of your reasonings and stick this fantastic story where never was able to deliver any part of it's story as reality......

It is so obvious that all these stories are mythical and made up; there was never a Virgin Birth or a "First Vision" as Joseph narrated.....The real Story came from Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein....How long are you willing to pursue this dream of "Afterlife"?  

It is impossible by any known science to disprove a supernatural claim.

Science is Agnostic, SEE

As to Virgin Birth where have you been for the last 40 years of in vitro fertilization? 

0

Share this post


Link to post

I believe in the supernatural. Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

2

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

Lets look at this as sort of business investment.  Lets say there is no afterlife and all these stories are false.  What do I lose by believing them?  Sure I might lose a little money in tithing and time in going to church and other related things but none of that will bother me when I die and find out there is no afterlife. I will not exist to care.  Nor will you exist to spike the ball in front of me and say "I told you so."  But if there is an afterlife then perhaps my investment of money (tith and offerings) and time (attending church meetings ect) could come with a HUGE payoff.    Your position if right has no upside at death.  Marginal upside before death.  If you are wrong you have no upside if there is an afterlife and only downside.  My position only as marginal downside before death and a potential big windfall if correct.  I have seen enough evidences that convince me I am on the right path.  Perhaps it would not convince you but that is ok.  As long as its sufficient to convince me, that is all that is required. 

If the real story is told by Darwin or Einstein, that is truly a sad, miserable story in the end.  We are just animals and our existence ends at death.  Nothing in our lives really matters in the end anyway so why care about anything.

Or there could be an afterlife where God said you wasted your time in meetings that you should have spent on better things, your money on other needs, your thoughts on other things, too.

There could be an afterlife where you get reprimanded for choosing a prepackaged religion and authority rather than devoting your life solely to Christlike principles and making your decisions based on what you truly know rather than what someone else says you should know.

There could be an afterlife where God looks at the atheist who tried to be like Christ and says "well done," while turning to professed believers asking who they are.

 

Edited by Meadowchik
3

Share this post


Link to post

Posted (edited)

23 hours ago, snowflake said:

I'm always amazed that the atheist can look through a microscope or a telescope and say "wow, look at all that randomness, look at all that chance, not a single shred of evidence for intelligence or design out there anywhere, or they say....look at this cell, a self replicating miniature city with multiple integrated and incredibly complex systems....and this all came to be by chance"......your religion is called "Naturalism" and it is based on faith and speculation, taught, endorsed and paid for by the taxpayer.

I'm always amazed the Atheist can't realize they have total faith in a religion.

That's not what religion is. And of course you can't calculate the kind of probabilities that get thrown around in these kinds of arguments, really. We have no context but our own universe (a sample size of one). 

Edited by Gray
2

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

There could be an afterlife where God looks at the atheist who tried to be like Christ and says "well done," while turning to professed believers asking who they are.

 

That sounds like a Jesus saying. You should move to Galilee and buy a boat!

0

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, Gray said:

That's not what religion is. And of course you can't calculate the kind of probabilities that get thrown around in these kinds of arguments, really. We have no context but our own universe. 

I'm saying that our universe is incredibly intricate, the physics of it are "fine tuned" and our universe has no appearance of "randomness" that the atheists tend cling to as proof of no God.

0

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Why follow another Human being who claims to be an emissary of God, without offering a shred of evidence.....Starting from Jesus, Apostle Paul to Joseph Smith......What is the fascination when we know these guys did not deliver what they promised......My incredulity about most you goes like this; I know you are well educated, well reasoned about the reality...But when it comes to this faith thing you just unclad most of your reasonings and stick this fantastic story where never was able to deliver any part of it's story as reality......

It is so obvious that all these stories are mythical and made up; there was never a Virgin Birth or a "First Vision" as Joseph narrated.....The real Story came from Charles Darwin, Albert Einstein....How long are you willing to pursue this dream of "Afterlife"?  

I think we can apply this question outside religion as well.  Why follow anyone who makes claims?  Charismatic leaders in all walks of life, political, religious, financial, the arts.  Why do we follow flawed humans, why do we put our trust in people at all?  It seems like we're willing to suspend our critical thinking when we're presented with really good sales skills.  Why is this the case?  

My guess is that we've evolved into creatures that believe we have the capacity for making judgments about things based on our intuition.  We feel confidence in our ability to discern truth from error.  I know I do.  I'm not sure that I'm statistically very competent at actually doing this though.  Yet, I still continue to use this method in spite of my failures in the past.  The psychology of how our brains work, help us to forget the times we made mistakes and preference the times we actually guessed right.  Our brains also like to find justifications for past decisions we made, to prop up our past decision as being a good decision.  

Learning all this, I'd like to think I'm better at being a critical thinker now, and more humble about my limitations to evaluate evidence without some kind of bias.  I also know that I'll never be fully capable of complete objectivity no matter how hard I try.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

If the real story is told by Darwin or Einstein, that is truly a sad, miserable story in the end.  We are just animals and our existence ends at death.  Nothing in our lives really matters in the end anyway so why care about anything.

If there is no "supernatural" and scientific materialism is true, then we are just a chemical reaction that began billions of years ago and has figured out how to keep going.  When I think about that, it is truly mind-blowing.  I'm a few billion years old and as long as there is life on earth I will never die!  The chemical reaction continues on... from Whitman's "Song of Myself":

Quote

The smallest sprout shows there is really no death,
And if ever there was it led forward life, and does not wait at
     the end to arrest it,
And ceas'd the moment life appear'd.

All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses,
And to die is different from what any one supposed, and
     luckier.

On the other hand, if there is a God that created and sustains this universe, that it also truly mind-blowing.  If I'm a chemical reaction, that is crazy amazing.  If I am a creation of God, that is crazy amazing.  The way I look at it, life is crazy amazing :)

As far as your overall point that without God life is miserable and meaningless and there is no reason to care, that is never convincing to atheists for many reasons, perhaps the biggest being that even if there is no afterlife, there is this life and there are things to care about in this life.  I still love my child, for example, and want him to be happy, regardless of the existence of an afterlife.  Also, there is the strong philosophical tradition of existentialism, that begins with the meaningless and absurdity of life but ends with reasons for caring.

In other words, atheism does not equal nihilism.

(obviously I am a firm believer in God -- I just want the atheist position to be accurately presented)

2

Share this post


Link to post
11 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

...although it is plainly not possible to scientifically prove that there is a God (of our genus and species)...

Actually that one is pretty easy.

We are it.

1

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Why follow another Human being who claims to be an emissary of God...

Because God told me to.

3

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, snowflake said:

I'm always amazed that the atheist can look through a microscope or a telescope and say "wow, look at all that randomness, look at all that chance, not a single shred of evidence for intelligence or design out there anywhere, or they say....look at this cell, a self replicating miniature city with multiple integrated and incredibly complex systems....and this all came to be by chance"......your religion is called "Naturalism" and it is based on faith and speculation, taught, endorsed and paid for by the taxpayer.

I'm always amazed the Atheist can't realize they have total faith in a religion.

Evolution is not random.

0

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.