Johnnie Cake Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) It was just announced that BSA will begin accepting scouts based on the applicants gender identity. While I personally support this move Im thinking that this may be the point of no return for the Boy Scouts of America ... a point even the LDS church can't accept. It's only speculation, but not only won't the church accept this it may be the breaking point for their 100 year relationship http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/us/boy-scouts-reversing-century-old-stance-will-allow-transgender-boys.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share NYTimes: Boy Scouts, Reversing Century-Old Stance, Will Allow Transgender Boys Edited January 31, 2017 by Johnnie Cake 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted January 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2017 I hope this is the end. A break seems inevitable so it might as well be now. Gender identity change confuses me. We have children who we give few legal rights because they are young and unstable but somehow we accept that they are of sound mind to make an irrevocable surgical changes and make decisions that will have ramifications throughout their life? 16 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I hope this is the end. A break seems inevitable so it might as well be now. Gender identity change confuses me. We have children who we give few legal rights because they are young and unstable but somehow we accept that they are of sound mind to make an irrevocable surgical changes and make decisions that will have ramifications throughout their life? 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I hope this is the end. A break seems inevitable so it might as well be now. Gender identity change confuses me. We have children who we give few legal rights because they are young and unstable but somehow we accept that they are of sound mind to make an irrevocable surgical changes and make decisions that will have ramifications throughout their life? 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I hope this is the end. A break seems inevitable so it might as well be now. Gender identity change confuses me. We have children who we give few legal rights because they are young and unstable but somehow we accept that they are of sound mind to make an irrevocable surgical changes and make decisions that will have ramifications throughout their life? 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted January 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2017 I felt so strongly about this I felt the need to say it four times...either that or I kept getting error messages that the site was down. 8 Link to comment
daz2 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I don't think the Church will leave the BSA as long as President Monson is alive. After he passes away, I think all bets are off, regardless of the position of BSA on lgbt issues. I think there is sentiment in the Church and among some of the Brethren that while scouting is a good program, it may not meet the needs of LDS male youth in the U.S.A. And that it may not make sense for the Church to sponsor scouts in the US and Canada for boys when it doesn't in other countries. I would note that the Brethren may (or may not) be a little more accepting of transgender individuals than in the past http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/02/13/mormons_and_transgender_elder_dallin_h_oaks_says_the_lds_church_is_open.html . Also, Scouts Canada has accepted transgender scouts for a while, and the Church has not pulled out of Scouts Canada. http://www.dailyxtra.com/canada/news-and-ideas/news/canadian-scouting-groups-welcome-trans-youth-51449 4 Link to comment
Johnnie Cake Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: I hope this is the end. A break seems inevitable so it might as well be now. Gender identity change confuses me. We have children who we give few legal rights because they are young and unstable but somehow we accept that they are of sound mind to make an irrevocable surgical changes and make decisions that will have ramifications throughout their life? Or old enough to make a lifetime commitment to a religion...yeah they're too young to make those kind of lifetime commitments...wait till you're 18 3 Link to comment
rockpond Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Both of the last changes (allowing gay scouts and allowing gay leaders) were also thought to be the breaking point between us and the BSA. I don't anticipate a change, not only because of our relationship with the BSA but also because I don't see the Brethren wanting headlines along the lines of "LDS Church ends century old relationship with the BSA over transgender scouts". Transgender kids are likely an issue that the Brethren are currently discussing and praying over. Where those kids fit into scouting is a smaller concern than making sure they have a place in priesthood quorums and YW classes. Besides, historically we've always gone our own way regardless of what the BSA decides on things. 4 Link to comment
Guest Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 The Boy Scouts start at age eleven, I certainly hope not. The Church has allowed the Boy Scouts to survive for so very long. I believe it is time to go it alone. Link to comment
Anijen Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) deleted Cinepro you crack me up. A rep point for a deleted post..... Edited January 31, 2017 by Anijen 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted January 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said: Or old enough to make a lifetime commitment to a religion...yeah they're too young to make those kind of lifetime commitments...wait till you're 18 You are allowed to rescind a religious commitment. Much harder to undo surgery. I have a hard time understanding how parents of sound mind can allow their kids to subject themselves to this kind of elective surgery. Then again I volunteer to help with CPS removed kids and learned that 'parents of sound mind' are not as common as I naively supposed them to be. 9 Link to comment
carbon dioxide Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I never had liked scouting and its one of the few callings in the Church that I will say no to. I can't see any LDS troop allowing girls in. The world is getting more insane every day. The British medical association is now encouraging doctors in the UK to avoid using the term "pregnant mother" as a result of a transgender "man" getting pregnant before doing through all the surgery to become a "man". So doctors are being asked to instead of saying "pregnant mother" or "expectant mother" to say "pregnant people" or "expectant people." 2 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) This is like cutting the tail off of a dog an inch at a time. Why not save the time, energy, and aggravation of a Snip Woof Snip Woof Snip Woof piecemeal transformation? Instead of fighting over each one and dragging it out over the next 5 or so years, just go ahead and embrace all 58 gender identities. Call it Scouts and say, "Anything goes. Have at it!" Seriously. It's inevitable. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/02/heres-a-list-of-58-gender-options-for-facebook-users/ Edited January 31, 2017 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Popular Post Kenngo1969 Posted January 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2017 6 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: Or old enough to make a lifetime commitment to a religion...yeah they're too young to make those kind of lifetime commitments...wait till you're 18 Except when one of your parents has left your other parent and has married his or her same-sex partner, and you, too, live in that household. Then, by God, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had better allow you to be baptized the nanosecond you turn eight. Otherwise, it is denying baptism to children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 5 Link to comment
Buckeye Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 This is a good move by the BSA. I'm proud to be a part of the organization and for my boys to participate fully. Scouting has been great to us. Hopefully it continues to be a part of many lds youths lives, including our transgender youth. To clear up some confusion, nothing in this decision speaks to sex change operations. Those decisions are best handled by the youth and his or her family. My understanding is that operations, when they are chosen, tend to happen in the later teen years or adult years. All this policy change does is to say that the youth decides their gender identity, not a birthing nurse. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Buckeye Posted January 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2017 I'll add this. About 2 years ago the bsa changed its policy on gay leaders. At the time there were many cries of concern that our youth would be in danger. Since then, nothing has happened. The concerns, while perhaps well-intentioned, were not factually supported. So let's be more careful this time about unwarranted safety concerns. The kids are going to be just fine. 5 Link to comment
rockpond Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 7 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: I never had liked scouting and its one of the few callings in the Church that I will say no to. I can't see any LDS troop allowing girls in. The world is getting more insane every day. The British medical association is now encouraging doctors in the UK to avoid using the term "pregnant mother" as a result of a transgender "man" getting pregnant before doing through all the surgery to become a "man". So doctors are being asked to instead of saying "pregnant mother" or "expectant mother" to say "pregnant people" or "expectant people." Just as the church handled the issue of gay scouts it's own way (my ward registered all boys each year - even those who were openly gay before the BSA "allowed it")... And just as the church handles the issue of gay leaders (they are called, they don't volunteer)... The church will handle the issue of transgender boys and girls the way it sees best fit regardless of BSA policy. 4 Link to comment
Buckeye Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Except when one of your parents has left your other parent and has married his or her same-sex partner, and you, too, live in that household. Then, by God, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints had better allow you to be baptized the nanosecond you turn eight. Otherwise, it is denying baptism to children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't think that those opposed to the church policy forbidding baptism to the children of SS couples are driven by a desire for 8 year olds to be baptized so much as they are driven by a desire that all children are treated equally and included. Edited January 31, 2017 by Buckeye 4 Link to comment
HappyJackWagon Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, The Nehor said: You are allowed to rescind a religious commitment. Much harder to undo surgery. I have a hard time understanding how parents of sound mind can allow their kids to subject themselves to this kind of elective surgery. Then again I volunteer to help with CPS removed kids and learned that 'parents of sound mind' are not as common as I naively supposed them to be. You've asserted twice now (5 times if we count the duplicate post ) that these transgender kids are having sxual reassignment surgery to match the gender with which they claim. I don't think this is the case at all. Most (if not all) transgender children simply dress differently, get different hair dos, and maybe go by a different name until they are old enough to make a decision for reassignment surgery. I'd be really interested if there is any evidence that transgender children are having reassignment surgeries. ETA- I found this article that says these reassignment surgeries are on the rise but it's still a small minority.http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sex-change-treatment-for-kids-on-the-rise/ Edited January 31, 2017 by HappyJackWagon 3 Link to comment
Johnnie Cake Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 8 hours ago, The Nehor said: You are allowed to rescind a religious commitment. Much harder to undo surgery. I have a hard time understanding how parents of sound mind can allow their kids to subject themselves to this kind of elective surgery. Then again I volunteer to help with CPS removed kids and learned that 'parents of sound mind' are not as common as I naively supposed them to be. I actually agree with you on the surgery part... Link to comment
CV75 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 13 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: It was just announced that BSA will begin accepting scouts based on the applicants gender identity. While I personally support this move Im thinking that this may be the point of no return for the Boy Scouts of America ... a point even the LDS church can't accept. It's only speculation, but not only won't the church accept this it may be the breaking point for their 100 year relationship http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/us/boy-scouts-reversing-century-old-stance-will-allow-transgender-boys.html?smprod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share NYTimes: Boy Scouts, Reversing Century-Old Stance, Will Allow Transgender Boys Wards "adopt" the BSA into the ward organization as an important resource to the Aaronic Priesthood quorums. As such, the wards run the program under the bishop's inspiration to suit the young men's quorum and individual needs. I see scout enrollment decided on a case by case basis when such questions arise. Link to comment
emeliza Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 11 hours ago, The Nehor said: I hope this is the end. A break seems inevitable so it might as well be now. Gender identity change confuses me. We have children who we give few legal rights because they are young and unstable but somehow we accept that they are of sound mind to make an irrevocable surgical changes and make decisions that will have ramifications throughout their life? In the US surgeries are not done until adulthood. You have to be 18. 4 Link to comment
bluebell Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Buckeye said: All this policy change does is to say that the youth decides their gender identity, not a birthing nurse. Saying that the birthing nurse gets to determine someone's gender doesn't make much sense. That would be like me saying that when i see a toyota and say 'it's a toyota' that i have determined the make of the car. 3 Link to comment
CA Steve Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 1 minute ago, bluebell said: Saying that the birthing nurse gets to determine someone's gender doesn't make much sense. That would be like me saying that when i see a toyota and say 'it's a toyota' that i have determined the make of the car. It makes a lot more sense if the birthing nurse looked at the car and it had both a Toyota and Honda symbol on it. Quote If you ask experts at medical centers how often a child is born so noticeably atypical in terms of genitalia that a specialist in sex differentiation is called in, the number comes out to about 1 in 1500 to 1 in 2000 births. But a lot more people than that are born with subtler forms of sex anatomy variations, some of which won’t show up until later in life. http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency Link to comment
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