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Washington Post article--Where is the Mormon Church on Trump

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5 minutes ago, longview said:

Why does not Saudi Arabia, among the wealthiest countries in the world, host ALL the refugees?  They have plenty of land.  They just need to transport cases of Evian water bottles.  What is the point of glutting European nations?   Some as high as 20% of the population.

They don't want to.

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3 hours ago, Darren10 said:

A) If this were anti-Muslim. Wouldn't Indonesia be on the list?

I would pay money to see Trump without help be asked to point out Muslim majority countries on a map and see if he actually has any idea where they are.

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1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Yes and no one discusses that the best solution for a refugee crisis is to actually stabilize home countries. I hope that ISIS can be eradicated and that the refugee  camps will empty because the region is more peaceful. The Arab Spring produced terrible results for the region.

Of course that solution requires sending our soldiers to fight and die so I am not sure if it is automatically the best solution.

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2 hours ago, ERayR said:

Use your head for something besides a hat rack.  Who is it that are the majority of the terrorists?  Hint: Muslim extremists.

Therefore is we leave all Muslims to die in the conflict the problem will solve itself.

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19 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

They don't want to.

Progress might be coming on that front...http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN15D14L"The president requested and the King agreed to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, as well as supporting other ideas to help the many refugees who are displaced by the ongoing conflicts," the statement said.

 

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4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

:huh:It is to be said though...that after all is said and done..and no matter how anyone feels about Pres. Trump, how long has it been since a President did exactly what he said he was going to do...and fast!  Doesn't mean that what he does is all good of course.  I didn't take the "Muslim Ban" as literal against the religion..especially the peaceful muslims in our own country.  This is a quick pause until a vetting system is put into place..(my understanding).  In any case, I hope that we can bring those with their dreams and hearts desires without fear and fear for them.

The sad thing is we already had a difficult and involved vetting system to get in now.

For a summary start at 5:00 in on this video from a few months back:

Adding more restrictions beyond those we have is almost certainly not going to weed out more terrorists. It is political grandstanding and playing on people's fears to get political points for 'protecting America'.

I am personally trying to figure out when America became such a cowardly and craven nation. Freedom is not free. Doing the right thing can be dangerous and is not always completely safe. Why are we so afraid and who is stoking this fear?

Edited by The Nehor

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12 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Progress might be coming on that front...http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN15D14L"The president requested and the King agreed to support safe zones in Syria and Yemen, as well as supporting other ideas to help the many refugees who are displaced by the ongoing conflicts," the statement said.

 

Supporting safe zones outside your own country might help some but it is not welcoming in the dispossessed to help them recover.

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6 hours ago, Darren10 said:

because Obama didn't build his presidency on Islamophobia and paranoia like Trump et al have and continue to do

plus there is this and It seems you didn't know about it?http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/immigration-church-issues-new-statement

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1 hour ago, ERayR said:

Use your head for something besides a hat rack.  Who is it that are the majority of the terrorists?  Hint: Muslim extremists.

Americans kill Americans, the Orlando Shooter-American.Dylan Roof, American. The BTK kIller , Dahmer, Manson and all these nutcases, Americans. The Washington DC sniper from years ago, American. So banning people that come from countries that haven't killed Americans serves no purpose and Trump hasn't banned anybody coming from countries that he has business purposes in.

 

They are free to come to Canada!

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5 minutes ago, Duncan said:

because Obama didn't build his presidency on Islamophobia and paranoia like Trump et al have and continue to do

plus there is this and It seems you didn't know about it?http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/immigration-church-issues-new-statement

The Mormon news room article is talking about illegal immigrants living here already. It is a sane approach. It encourages people to come here legally, acknowledges many are here illegally and encourages compassion but does not insist these illegals be granted citizenship. 

The church does not consider being here illegally an honesty problem for the temple. I've always found that compassionate but not consistent with the standard definition of being honest.

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Just now, bsjkki said:

The Mormon news room article is talking about illegal immigrants living here already. It is a sane approach. It encourages people to come here legally, acknowledges many are here illegally and encourages compassion but does not insist these illegals be granted citizenship. 

The church does not consider being here illegally an honesty problem for the temple. I've always found that compassionate but not consistent with the standard definition of being honest.

so banning people that took months to get a visa makes sense? doesn't the US have immigration services to find illegal immigrants?  anybody can join the Church, regardless of nationality so it makes sense to me

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4 hours ago, Darren10 said:

A) If this were anti-Muslim. Wouldn't Indonesia be on the list?

Or....if you prefer an even more cynical take on why Indonesia was left alone can you guess who is currently building two (self-proclaimed) six star resorts in Indonesia?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/world/asia/indonesia-donald-trump-resort.html?_r=0

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I would pay money to see Trump without help be asked to point out Muslim majority countries on a map and see if he actually has any idea where they are.

Me too he probably doesn't know geography that well. 

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But, majority Muslim majority countries does not equate to terrorism for sure. In other words, just because there are more Muslims in places like Indonesia does not mean that there is more terrorism. The Middle East seems to be the real hot spot, by no means exclusive, for terrorism. That is the place in the world to focus on, that much Trump did get right. 

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I continue to think that it is obvious that this is about banning Muslims, since that is literally what Trump said he was going to do. Regardless of what this is supposed to accomplish, it is clear that he is a big hypocrite since he didn't ban Saudi Arabia immigration despite most of the perpetrators of 9/11 came from there. Presumably Trump doesn't want to endanger his business he's doing there. http://www.npr.org/2017/01/28/511996783/how-does-trumps-immigration-freeze-square-with-his-business-interests

Also, refugees are the people running away from the terrorists trying to kill them. Keeping them out is going to do nothing to stop terrorist attacks and this is just going to confirm to a lot of radicalized people that there really is a war between the West and Islam.

Edited by mapman

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39 minutes ago, Duncan said:

because Obama didn't build his presidency on Islamophobia and paranoia like Trump et al have and continue to do

plus there is this and It seems you didn't know about it?http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/immigration-church-issues-new-statement

Oh, I've known about that LDS Newsroom statement and have read it a couple times. I like the first part the most:

 

Quote

Around the world, debate on the immigration question has become intense.  That is especially so in the United States. Most Americans agree that the federal government of the United States should secure its borders and sharply reduce or eliminate the flow of undocumented immigrants. Unchecked and unregulated, such a flow may destabilize society and ultimately become unsustainable.

As a matter of policy, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discourages its members from entering any country without legal documentation, and from deliberately overstaying legal travel visas.

It's correct but a weird position for the Church to take since being an illegal alien won't affect your having a temple recommend so far as I know. 

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18 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Or....if you prefer an even more cynical take on why Indonesia was left alone can you guess who is currently building two (self-proclaimed) six star resorts in Indonesia?

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/31/world/asia/indonesia-donald-trump-resort.html?_r=0

If Trump were anti-Muslim, why build a billion star hotel in Indonesia? (It'll be the best hotel. The very best. We'll build it, and it'll be the best) :)

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27 minutes ago, Duncan said:

so banning people that took months to get a visa makes sense? doesn't the US have immigration services to find illegal immigrants?  anybody can join the Church, regardless of nationality so it makes sense to me

To be here illegally and work means you are a constant liar to your employer and to the IRS. That's where the honesty issue seems weird to me. 

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41 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Americans kill Americans, the Orlando Shooter-American.Dylan Roof, American. The BTK kIller , Dahmer, Manson and all these nutcases, Americans. The Washington DC sniper from years ago, American. So banning people that come from countries that haven't killed Americans serves no purpose and Trump hasn't banned anybody coming from countries that he has business purposes in.

 

They are free to come to Canada!

Interesting that your first citation was a Muslim extremist. As for Canada, we'll see who's behind this recent shooting. Sincere thoughts and prayers to all affected. I stand 100% with Trudeau in his blatant condemnation of this attack. 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/five-dead-in-quebec-city-mosque-shooting-mosque-president/ar-AAmof9J?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

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5 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Sad night for Canada...☹️️ 

I totally agree. :(

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2 hours ago, Darren10 said:

If Trump were anti-Muslim, why build a billion star hotel in Indonesia? (It'll be the best hotel. The very best. We'll build it, and it'll be the best) :)

Because he doesn't care where he gets his money from probably.

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2 hours ago, Darren10 said:

If Trump were anti-Muslim, why build a billion star hotel in Indonesia? (It'll be the best hotel. The very best. We'll build it, and it'll be the best) :)

I am not convinced he personally is anti-Muslim. He does know how to play on anti-Muslim hatred. Not sure if that makes him better or worse.

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5 hours ago, Darren10 said:

To be here illegally and work means you are a constant liar to your employer and to the IRS. That's where the honesty issue seems weird to me. 

unless you're paid under the table. I served in LA and I knew lots of members who hired illegal immigrants and who knows maybe they were working on getting their residency or had a green card? 

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5 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Interesting that your first citation was a Muslim extremist. As for Canada, we'll see who's behind this recent shooting. Sincere thoughts and prayers to all affected. I stand 100% with Trudeau in his blatant condemnation of this attack. 

 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/five-dead-in-quebec-city-mosque-shooting-mosque-president/ar-AAmof9J?OCID=ansmsnnews11

 

and American as well. I heard they arrested 2/3 people waiting to hear who they are

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