Washington Post article--Where is the Mormon Church on Trump

[Buckeye]

12 hours ago, Darren10 said:

A) If this were anti-Muslim. Wouldn't Indonesia be on the list?

B) Wouldn't Syrian Kurds be included for permission to enter the US as a refugee? 

 

IMO, the best way to understand Trump is as a businessman who built his base by saying outlandish things (whether or not he really believed them) and is now looking to establish credibility by doing what he said. I don't personally think he is anti-muslim by nature. But he built his campaign by branding them the enemy and now he feels it important to back up the talk. That's why he's trying to ban muslims as much as possible. It is a religious-based ban. He's targeting muslim-majority countries and then saying he'll let the christians through. 

For a better explanation of Trump's religious-based intentions, I'll let his own adviser do the talking:

Quote

 

OK. I’ll tell you the whole history of it. So when he first announced it he said, “Muslim ban.” He called me up and said, “Put a commission together, show me the right way to do it legally.” I put a commission together with Judge Mukasey, with Congressman McCaul, Pete King, a whole group of other very expert lawyers on this. And what we did was we focused on, instead of religion, danger. The areas of the world that create danger for us. Which is a factual basis. Not a religious basis. Perfectly legal, perfectly sensible, and that’s what the ban is based on. It’s not based on religion. It’s based on places where there are substantial evidence that people are sending terrorists into our country.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/29/rudy_giuliani_admits_trump_wanted_a_muslim_ban_asked_for_help_on_doing_it.html

 

 

[Darren10]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Because he doesn't care where he gets his money from probably.

Nor do I really.

[Darren10]

Buckeye

Quote

And what we did was we focused on, instead of religion, danger.

Which is EXACTLY as the executive orders reads and exactly what it should focus on.

[Darren10]

2 hours ago, Duncan said:

unless you're paid under the table. I served in LA and I knew lots of members who hired illegal immigrants and who knows maybe they were working on getting their residency or had a green card? 

"unless you're paid under the table" - Which is illegal to do. I personally don't care how much one makes "under the table' but the government sure does and thus its illegality.

[Buckeye]

Here's the full text of the executive order:  http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/

Here's the key language discriminating against muslims:

Quote

b) Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual's country of nationality. Where necessary and appropriate, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security shall recommend legislation to the President that would assist with such prioritization.

 

[Gray]

18 hours ago, Darren10 said:

http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2017/01/29/flashback-obama-2011-suspended-iraq-refugee-program-six-months-terrorism-fears/

 

Why would you be quoting a white supremacist site that peddles in conspiracy theories as if that advanced any argument? 

[rodheadlee]

4 minutes ago, Gray said:

Why would you be quoting a white supremacist site that peddles in conspiracy theories as if that advanced any argument? 

There is no unbiased news. The Washington Post is a left wing echo chamber. The NYT is no better. You must get your news from as many sources as possible and somewhere in between is the truth, maybe.

So you are saying Obama didn't suspend the Iraqi  immigration program for 6 months?

Edited January 30, 2017 by rodheadlee

[ERayR]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Therefore is we leave all Muslims to die in the conflict the problem will solve itself.

Follow the conversation, Mapman stated he did not understand what Trump was trying to do.  Just pointing out that it had something to do with terrorism, nothing more so your speculation is a miss.

[ERayR]

11 hours ago, Duncan said:

Americans kill Americans, the Orlando Shooter-American.Dylan Roof, American. The BTK kIller , Dahmer, Manson and all these nutcases, Americans. The Washington DC sniper from years ago, American. So banning people that come from countries that haven't killed Americans serves no purpose and Trump hasn't banned anybody coming from countries that he has business purposes in.

 

They are free to come to Canada!

See answer to Nehor above.

Edited January 30, 2017 by ERayR
Add to it

[Darren10]

37 minutes ago, Gray said:

Why would you be quoting a white supremacist site that peddles in conspiracy theories as if that advanced any argument? 

White supremacist Breitbart's not, content may be questionable but this story is easily verifiable from other sources.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/01/29/news-bulletin-the-list-of-muslim-nations-in-trumps-socalled-muslim-ban-are-ones-obama-choose-n2278021

http://www.sltrib.com/home/4872932-155/trump-suspends-refugee-program-citing-terrorists

http://thefederalist.com/2015/11/18/the-obama-administration-stopped-processing-iraq-refugee-requests-for-6-months-in-2011/

 

And, as a bonus, here's a good opinion piece on Trump's executive order: http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/01/30/trump-ban-muslim-immigrant-refugee-james-robbins-column/97221748/

[Duncan]

1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

"unless you're paid under the table" - Which is illegal to do. I personally don't care how much one makes "under the table' but the government sure does and thus its illegality.

I don't know how taxes work in the US but here if you make under a certain amount then not it's really illegal

[Darren10]

27 minutes ago, ERayR said:

Follow the conversation, Mapman stated he did not understand what Trump was trying to do.  Just pointing out that it had something to do with terrorism, nothing more so your speculation is a miss.

Just answer his exaggerated hyperbolic with another exaggerated hyperbolic: "Of course we want 'all Muslims to die' in the conflict. You finally get us Nehor".

Edited January 30, 2017 by Darren10

[Darren10]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I don't know how taxes work in the US but here if you make under a certain amount then not it's really illegal

You must report all income, even tips in the US. Enforcing that law, which is inherently extremely difficult, is another matter.

[bsjkki]

13 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I don't know how taxes work in the US but here if you make under a certain amount then not it's really illegal

If your teenager makes more than $400 in a year babysitting, you are required to pay self employment taxes and file a return. It is incredibly stupid. My 16-year-old taught piano and voice lessons and had to pay 12% to the government. If you are getting payed under the table--you are breaking the law and being not being "honest." https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/self-employed-individuals-tax-center

[Duncan]

Just now, bsjkki said:

If your teenager makes more than $400 in a year babysitting, you are required to pay self employment taxes and file a return. It is incredibly stupid. My 16-year-old taught piano and voice lessons and had to pay 12% to the government. If you are getting payed under the table--you are breaking the law and being not being "honest." https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/self-employed-individuals-tax-center

yeah see here I think the basic personal amount is like 7K or something so if you make less than that you don't pay taxes but obviously the more you make the more you get back unless you have to pay taxes, like my BIL does. he has a small business and he pays at the end of the year for stuff, whereas he should pay a small amount everytime he gets paid but he doesn't................. but if you pay fr thing sthat are write offs that can add to how much you get back like medication, bus passes etc.

[longview]

11 hours ago, mapman said:

Also, refugees are the people running away from the terrorists trying to kill them. Keeping them out is going to do nothing to stop terrorist attacks and this is just going to confirm to a lot of radicalized people that there really is a war between the West and Islam.

Or maybe they are not so innocent.  They just might be weaker terrorists unable to get the upper hand on the stronger terrorists.  Factions fighting among themselves.  After all, Islam is not so much a religion as it s a totalitarian ideology.  It is NOT a race but diverse from many regions of the world.

[Gray]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

There is no unbiased news. The Washington Post is a left wing echo chamber. The NYT is no better. You must get your news from as many sources as possible and somewhere in between is the truth, maybe.

So you are saying Obama didn't suspend the Iraqi  immigration program for 6 months?

There is a difference between the subtle biases from the best and most credible news sources and an "alt right" (read: white supremacist) propaganda rag. 

[longview]

1 hour ago, Gray said:

Why would you be quoting a white supremacist site that peddles in conspiracy theories as if that advanced any argument? 

Breitbart has more credibility than CNN.   Calling Breitbart supremacist simply is an indication of your intolerance for understanding other viewpoints.  Nothing more than a smear.   You should be ashamed.

[Gray]

40 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

White supremacist Breitbart's not,

I'm afraid you're in denial about Breitbart, Darren. 

[mapman]

3 minutes ago, longview said:

Or maybe they are not so innocent.  They just might be weaker terrorists unable to get the upper hand on the stronger terrorists.  Factions fighting among themselves.  After all, Islam is not so much a religion as it s a totalitarian ideology.  It is NOT a race but diverse from many regions of the world.

I'm guessing you don't know any Muslims personally. Islam certainly is a religion, and inspires faith in God and peace in its devout followers. This is a cynical condemnation of millions of people without any evidence to support your view.

[Gray]

1 minute ago, longview said:

Breitbart has more credibility than CNN.   Calling Breitbart supremacist simply is an indication of your intolerance for understanding other viewpoints.  Nothing more than a smear.   You should be ashamed.

It might seem like that if you get your news only from the most extremist of sources. CNN isn't great, but at least it's respectable and not haven for Alt Reit propaganda.   

[longview]

1 minute ago, mapman said:

I'm guessing you don't know any Muslims personally. Islam certainly is a religion, and inspires faith in God and peace in its devout followers. This is a cynical condemnation of millions of people without any evidence to support your view.

Dismissing me without knowing who I really am?   You should read up on Robert Spencer and Ann Geller and numerous sincere questioners (including Winston Churchill).  The Koran is chock full of disturbing elements that is anti-civilization whose heritage come from Molech and Baalism, etc.  I have known Moslems since my college days.

[longview]

5 minutes ago, Gray said:

from the most extremist of sources.

Only you can judge the validity of my news sources.  Your wisdom is breathtaking.

[bsjkki]

10 minutes ago, Gray said:

There is a difference between the subtle biases from the best and most credible news sources and an "alt right" (read: white supremacist) propaganda rag. 

What is your source for this? I find it incredibly funny. Slate as a great in-depth source of news and the NPR as minimally partisan. HAHAHAHAHAH! 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, ERayR said:

Follow the conversation, Mapman stated he did not understand what Trump was trying to do.  Just pointing out that it had something to do with terrorism, nothing more so your speculation is a miss.

He was not trying to do anything. He was trying to win accolades for holding off the barbarian hordes at the gates.

If he was trying to intelligently do something he would have talked it over with the federal agencies involved and crafted an executive order with instructions on implementation and covering various cases. As written it was an agent of chaos. It did not specify if it applied to green card holders for example so those enforced were confused about what to do.

This and other things are obvious questions that should have been answered in the order. It scares me that I know more about the repercussions of an executive order than the President and whoever he consulted collectively know. And I know I would have botched it if I tried to think out the ramifications. To be fair if I was a President I would have talked to people in the know about it first.

Edited January 30, 2017 by The Nehor