Blogger on "The Alarming Truth Behind Anti-Mormonism"

[rpn]

I am wondering what posters here thought of this blog post (aside from the kind of puzzling title as it doesn't seem to easily fit, at least in who exmormons would describe themselves).

http://happiness-seekers.com/2017/01/02/the-alarming-truth-behind-anti-mormonism/

 

Added Jan 3 11AM SEE last post pg 2 for screenshot if link doesn't work.

Edited January 3, 2017 by rpn

[boblloyd91]

That certainly is an interesting article. I agree that for the most part, people who leave the church tend to become agnostic, sometimes atheist (this is just my experience though). Some I know became a generic nondenominational Christian, but that seems really rare. In fact, I would say most people I know who have lost faith take an eclectic view of faith, and keep the things they like (such as the idea of eternal families) and discard more conservative positions the church holds (homosexuality being a big one). Not to be political, but most folks I know who leave the church go leftward in their thinking and values.

[Nevo]

1 hour ago, rpn said:

I am wondering what posters here thought of this blog post (aside from the kind of puzzling title as it doesn't seem to easily fit, at least in who exmormons would describe themselves).

http://happiness-seekers.com/2017/01/02/the-alarming-truth-behind-anti-mormonism/

I skimmed the article but never figured out what the "alarming truth" was. He also promised to show how "doubts that sometimes seem so monumental are more illusion than anything else" but I must have missed that too. 

He argues that "it is simply impossible to leave the Restored Gospel for another version of Christianity" because "basically every reason to doubt Mormonism is a good reason to doubt Christianity." I think this overstates things. I think it's possible to conclude that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet without also concluding that C.S. Lewis, for example, had it all wrong.

The author asserts that "anti-Mormonism isn't just about getting people to lose faith in our Church, it's about getting people to lose faith in God, in Christ, in revelation, in religion." Well, that would be news to this guy: 

"Anti-Mormonism" isn't a monolithic entity (and neither is "Atheism" for that matter).

54 minutes ago, boblloyd91 said:

Not to be political, but most folks I know who leave the church go leftward in their thinking and values.

Is there anything to the right? 

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by Nevo

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Nevo said:

I skimmed the article but never figured out what the "alarming truth" was. He also promised to show how "doubts that sometimes seem so monumental are more illusion than anything else" but I must have missed this too.

He argues that "it is simply impossible to leave the Restored Gospel for another version of Christianity" because "basically every reason to doubt Mormonism is a good reason to doubt Christianity." I think this overstates things. I think it's possible to conclude that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet without also concluding that C.S. Lewis, for example, had it all wrong.

The author asserts that "anti-Mormonism isn't just about getting people to lose faith in our Church, it's about getting people to lose faith in God, in Christ, in revelation, in religion." That would be news to this guy: 

 

"Anti-Mormonism" isn't a monolithic entity (and neither is "Atheism" for that matter).

 

Is there anything to the right? 

 

Anti-Mormons may not be monolothic, but they do tend to feed off of one other, freely sharing and uncritically accepting the same talking points and out-of-context quotations.

[bluebell]

15 minutes ago, Nevo said:

I skimmed the article but never figured out what the "alarming truth" was. He also promised to show how "doubts that sometimes seem so monumental are more illusion than anything else" but I must have missed that too. 

He argues that "it is simply impossible to leave the Restored Gospel for another version of Christianity" because "basically every reason to doubt Mormonism is a good reason to doubt Christianity." I think this overstates things. I think it's possible to conclude that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet without also concluding that C.S. Lewis, for example, had it all wrong.

The author asserts that "anti-Mormonism isn't just about getting people to lose faith in our Church, it's about getting people to lose faith in God, in Christ, in revelation, in religion." Well, that would be news to this guy: 

"Anti-Mormonism" isn't a monolithic entity (and neither is "Atheism" for that matter).

Is there anything to the right? 

 

I agree. I have one friend who left Mormonism but stayed Christian. 

But the author does have a point in that most people who leave, leave organized religion behind as well. I think it's because doubts about Mormonism usually become doubts about feeling the spirit and be able to recognize spiritual truth and getting answers to prayers. 

And those doubts transcend Mormonism to impact every religious doctrine from every Christian religious philosophy.  

If you can't trust your testimony of the BOM was true (because now you believe it never actually came from God), then you can't trust your testimony of Christ for the same reasons, for example. 

[california boy]

1.  There’s Only One Credible Alternative to the Restored Gospel  

His assertion that the o only credible alternative Mormonism is atheism is ridiculous.  People can leave the church and still believe in Christ.

2.  Crises of Faith in LDS Communities Are Really Just a Symptom of a Larger Problem

The blogger has a major flaw in his premise.  While it is true that the survey he uses to make his claims shows people are leaving organized Christian religion, the survey does not show that all those people becoming agnostic.  This is what the survey says.

Quote

 

Over the same period, the percentage of Americans who are religiously unaffiliated – describing themselves as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular” – has jumped more than six points, from 16.1% to 22.8%.  

 

People are leaving organized religion for a lot of reasons.  They may not be leaving Christ.  From the people I talk with, they tell me they still consider themselves Christian, but no longer Catholic, Mormon, Baptist, or whatever religion they were raised in.  They live decent lives.  Many have found other organizations to become involved with that are doing great works and enriching not only the lives of others, but of themselves.  They haven't left religion, religion has left them.  This is what they tell me when we have these discussions.

a. Christian churches are not all that Christ-like in how they act towards those outside their faith and how they teach their members to treat others.  Dogma has become more important than Christ's call "As I have loved you, love one another."  When you loose that as a goal, you loose a large part of the reason to associate with organized religion.  Sometimes just deciding for yourself the message that Christ offered is better than trusting others to tell you what that message should be.  

b.  Christian churches used to care for the needy, orphans, and those less fortunate.  Now other organizations such as Open Hand, Habitat for Humanity, senior centers and thousands of amazing non profit organizations across the country that have no religious affiliations are doing that work.  For the most part, religion only plays lip service to the mission of caring for others.  Such a small fraction of the wealth of churches rarely goes to helping with the needs of those less fortunate. If you want to know what a church really values, see where they spend their money.

c.  Much of what is told in organized religion and the scriptures is just plain false.  Adam and Eve were not the first humans, there was no world wide flood, Joseph Smith did not translate the Book of Mormon from gold plates, Abraham did not write with his own hand the scrolls found in the mummys.  American Indians are not from the Middle East.  If you can't trust what religion once taught as truth, how can you trust the rest of their version of who Christ was.

d.  Religion used to bring people together and provide a sense of the greater community.  Now religion builds walls between themselves and the community.  It has become an us vs them mentality for many in organized religion.  People have looked elsewhere and found a sense of community in other areas that are much more welcoming.

e.  Religion has become political.  

3.  Post-Modern Atheism Is Paving the Way for a New and Destructive Moral Order
There is nothing in the survey that says that everyone who leaves organized religion are becoming atheists.

4.  The Book of Mormon Powerfully Responds to This Mindset

Then the blogger immediately falls back on the us vs them mentality.  What a surprise.  He doesn't look to how religion is failing the people, he only builds walls.

5.  An Important and Final Conclusion

And finally, if you have doubts with where religion is headed, it is your problem, not religions.

 

I know many here are going to disagree with what others outside religion are saying about their experiences.  But the bottom line is quite clear.  People are walking away from religion in a major way.  Religion answers that as a sign of the wickedness of the people.  Others hear that and find no wickedness in the decisions they have made.  This only alienates them more from religion.  It is a cycle that just increases the distance religion has created.  Just look at how this blogger states her reasons for religion failing.   Rather than blame people for leaving religion, why not have a discussion on why religion is failing so many people.  If you want to change the direction, you have to understand the cause.  If  organized religion continues on the course it is on, then there is no reason to think that people will not also continue to leave organized religion.  This whole blog is to gin up the believers and make the reason so many are leaving organized religion their fault and to cry "all's well in Zion."

[cdowis]

As I have said to antiMormons ===>>>

OK, you have me convinced.  Now that I am leaving Smithism, where do i go now?  Tell me what to believe.

Now, be careful.  You will need to prove to me what you have to offer.  I don't want o be fooled a second time, so tell me where I should get the truth and give me proof that it is true.

[california boy]

37 minutes ago, bluebell said:

But the author does have a point in that most people who leave, leave organized religion behind as well.

The author makes this point, but he has nothing to back it up.  So it becomes pretty much a worthless point that may be completely false.

[theplains]

1 hour ago, boblloyd91 said:

That certainly is an interesting article. I agree that for the most part, people who leave the church tend to become agnostic, sometimes atheist (this is just my experience though). Some I know became a generic nondenominational Christian, but that seems really rare. In fact, I would say most people I know who have lost faith take an eclectic view of faith, and keep the things they like (such as the idea of eternal families) and discard more conservative positions the church holds (homosexuality being a big one). Not to be political, but most folks I know who leave the church go leftward in their thinking and values.

If you live in Utah, you'll find plenty of people who have left the Mormon Church and grew into
a deeper relationship with Jesus.  

Jim

[cdowis]

4 minutes ago, california boy said:

The author makes this point, but he has nothing to back it up.  So it becomes pretty much a worthless point that may be completely false.

If you look at the Pew study (don't have the link off hand), it shows about one third of those leaving the LDS church become atheist or unaffiliated.

[Bobbieaware]

1 hour ago, Nevo said:

I skimmed the article but never figured out what the "alarming truth" was. He also promised to show how "doubts that sometimes seem so monumental are more illusion than anything else" but I must have missed that too. 

He argues that "it is simply impossible to leave the Restored Gospel for another version of Christianity" because "basically every reason to doubt Mormonism is a good reason to doubt Christianity." I think this overstates things. I think it's possible to conclude that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet without also concluding that C.S. Lewis, for example, had it all wrong.

The author asserts that "anti-Mormonism isn't just about getting people to lose faith in our Church, it's about getting people to lose faith in God, in Christ, in revelation, in religion." Well, that would be news to this guy: 

"Anti-Mormonism" isn't a monolithic entity (and neither is "Atheism" for that matter).

Is there anything to the right? 

 

By actually carefully reading the article -- as the author says one must do in order to see the alarming truth he's talking about -- I found that alarming truth and agree with the author 100%.

[cdowis]

1 minute ago, theplains said:

If you live in Utah, you'll find plenty of people who have left the Mormon Church and grew into
a deeper relationship with Jesus.  

They were transformed social Mormons into devoted Christians.  I can see that.  

I think the church is well aware of that, and have made changes to the youth programs as a result.

[california boy]

14 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

By actually carefully reading the article -- as the author says one must do in order to see the alarming truth he's talking about -- I found that alarming truth and agree with the author 100%.

So what is the alarming truth?

[bluebell]

25 minutes ago, california boy said:

The author makes this point, but he has nothing to back it up.  So it becomes pretty much a worthless point that may be completely false.

It is very unfortunate that the author doesn't back up the point with any evidence.  I have a lot of personal evidence of my own though so for me, it's a supported statement (not that loss in belief of mormonism always leads to loss of faith in God, but that it oftentimes does).

[california boy]

19 minutes ago, cdowis said:

If you look at the Pew study (don't have the link off hand), it shows about one third of those leaving the LDS church become atheist or unaffiliated.

It is the same kind of conclusion.  1/3  become atheist OR unaffiliated.  It doesn't say 1/3 become atheist.  They aren't necessarily leaving Christianity. they are leaving organized religion

[cdowis]

13 minutes ago, california boy said:

So what is the alarming truth?

When uncertain, when in doubt
Run in circles, scream and shout.

_____________________

Personal note: this is the only poem that I have ever memorized.  I have been waiting forever to be able to use it.

Hey, that makes a great title, "The Alarming Truth"

Edited January 2, 2017 by cdowis

[Bobbieaware]

3 minutes ago, california boy said:

So what is the alarming truth?

Read the article CAREFULLY and return and report.

[california boy]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

It is very unfortunate that the author doesn't back up the point with any evidence.  I have a lot of personal evidence of my own though so for me, it's a supported statement (not that loss in belief of mormonism always leads to loss of faith in God, but that it oftentimes does).

The irony of what this blogger does is exactly one of the main reasons people are leaving organized religion.  Religion makes statements that are at best leaps from some scripture, but may have noting to do with the dogma that they create.  For example don't drink blood means no blood transfusions. 

[california boy]

6 minutes ago, Bobbieaware said:

Read the article CAREFULLY and return and report.

I obviously read the article carefully. I responded to every point she made.  Your coy answer to me says you too have nothing to support the bloggers conclusions.  So you deflect.

[Tacenda]

42 minutes ago, cdowis said:

As I have said to antiMormons ===>>>

OK, you have me convinced.  Now that I am leaving Smithism, where do i go now?  Tell me what to believe.

Now, be careful.  You will need to prove to me what you have to offer.  I don't want o be fooled a second time, so tell me where I should get the truth and give me proof that it is true.

Go to yourself. Trust your inner compass. And if you believe in God, go to straight to Him, (of course I know you believe in God and this is a made up scenario).  

After saying this, I believe the church helps those that need structure and that structure enabling them to become closer to God/Jesus. I watched this video with Shawn McRaney, below, with an LDS man. He had at one time become disfellowshipped for some morality issues and he is also a returned missionary. He mentions that his main allegience is to God first, not the church. But he says the church allows him to be able to have that relationship with God. So I believe if any church helps that, great! But if you get it on your own, thats good too, since some members/non members don't have this same experience and feel worse in a religion. I really like how this guy thinks though. And he said he experienced a miracle that he believes was sent from God that got him back to church.

http://hotm.tv/episode-525-bartles-and-james-copy/

[bluebell]

12 minutes ago, california boy said:

The irony of what this blogger does is exactly one of the main reasons people are leaving organized religion.  Religion makes statements that are at best leaps from some scripture, but may have noting to do with the dogma that they create.  For example don't drink blood means no blood transfusions. 

Bible only religions have the problems that you have stated.  But religions that are not bound by sola scriptura do not have to be able to validate their doctrine using only scripture.

But a lot of people who have issues with organized religion don't actually understand it all that well.

[california boy]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Bible only religions have the problems that you have stated.  But religions that are not bound by sola scriptura do not have to be able to validate their doctrine using only scripture.

But a lot of people who have issues with organized religion don't actually understand it all that well.

Seriously?  You don't think the Mormon church has dogma that are at best is a leap from some scripture including the BOM and POGP but are not based on any revelation from God? Every religion does it.  If people truly thought that everything the Mormon church teaches is true and comes from God and not infallible men, then I don't think so many in the church would be having a faith crisis.  It is always easier to see the errors in other interpretation of scripture in others.

[bluebell]

17 minutes ago, california boy said:

Seriously?  You don't think the Mormon church has dogma that are at best is a leap from some scripture including the BOM and POGP but are not based on any revelation from God? Every religion does it.  If people truly thought that everything the Mormon church teaches is true and comes from God and not infallible men, then I don't think so many in the church would be having a faith crisis.  It is always easier to see the errors in other interpretation of scripture in others.

Perhaps you could provide a reference for the doctrine you're referring to. 

[california boy]

20 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Perhaps you could provide a reference for the doctrine you're referring to. 

I have thought carefully about how to answer your question without derailing yet another thread.  You certainly are informed enough after being on this discussion board long enough to know the major reasons why people are having a faith crisis in the Mormon church.  If you can't find any answers to your question there, I suggest you read the church essays concerning doctrines that were once believed to be couched in scripture and revelation that are now disavowed.

 

[boblloyd91]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

If you live in Utah, you'll find plenty of people who have left the Mormon Church and grew into
a deeper relationship with Jesus.  

Jim

I said clearly this is anecdotal experience, and yes I live in Utah.