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bluebell

A Republican o.k. with Mormon Genocide

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On 11/5/2016 at 2:28 PM, thesometimesaint said:

She's a Methodist, and much friendlier to LDS values than "I've never asked God for forgiveness" serial sexual assaulter Donald Trump.

As Brigham Young said "Truth is truth no matter where you find it". You'd be surprised by what makes me uncomfortable sitting in the front row pew of the Chapel. I've heard Church Leaders while they shout from the pulpit  in their loudest voice possible "AN HONEST DAY'S WORK", while they whisper in softest voice possible "for an honest days pay".

I believe BY but I don't see how one could find truth in anything Clinton.

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On 11/6/2016 at 8:48 AM, mnn727 said:

An accusal is not a conviction and now that woman has dropped everything.

Its the same as my asking if you've stopped beating your children yet. The accusation is there that you've done it, whether you have or not.

Yet an accusation against Trump seems to carry the weight of a conviction.  Funny how that works.

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On 11/6/2016 at 8:52 AM, bluebell said:

Some of them came out before the election. 

And it's important to remember that Hillary also hasn't been convicted of any wrong doing either. 

Isn't it amazing how that Gaddianton thing works?

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For me, the right and moral choice for President is Donald Trump.

I normally avoid politics and hate getting involved with it (to the point I feel I'm shirking my duty as a citizen), so I don't claim any special insights.  These are my opinions and I'm not really interested in defending them, so take them for what they're worth.

I initially dismissed Trump as a serious candidate, but then began to notice how completely biased the media was against him.  I began looking into him independently of the normal media channels and liked what I saw.  For example, he'll give an hour policy speech and one phrase will be taken out of context and twisted and discussed to death while the rest of what he said will be completely ignored.  It reminded me a lot of conference time around here.  

I don't feel Donald Trump is an immoral person.  No doubt he has done immoral things, but I think he's a good person at heart.  I've been acquainted with many people over the years that didn't live up to LDS, or even their own, standards, but they were still good people trying to do what they felt was right.

By the way, that's one of things I hate about politics.  There are many people out there with wisdom and experience who would love to serve their community, state or country in an elected office, but who haven't lived a perfect life.  They realize that if they ran for office, their lives would be scrutinized and every bad choice and mistake would be broadcast to the world.  Better to just not get involved.

Donald Trump has spelled out his policies and positions to make the country better.  I don't want to stretch out this post going over them, but I'll mention one in particular because it's personal to me.  He has specific plans for cleaning up the V.A. mess.  Everybody elses' plan seems to be business as usual.  I absolutely reject the idea that his campaign is nothing but hate and fear.

So I'm voting for Trump because I think he's a good candidate, not because I'm holding my nose.

And yes, I hate Hillary.  She's got so many things wrong with her, but the two that completely disqualify her in my mind are how she treated the people of Haiti and the people and country of Libya.  Which reminds me, Trump is the candidate for peace.  Hillary is the candidate for war.

And if I'm completely wrong about him?  We're a country of laws and separation of powers.  The politicians on both the right and the left don't like him, so they're not going to let him get away with much if he tries anything too damaging.  On the other hand, it's already clear that they'll let Hillary get away with pretty much anything.

 

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19 hours ago, Duncan said:

and Trump is squeeky clean in his business dealings? lawsuits and upset people are not good business dealings. Even people who have a ton more money than Trump say he isn't a good business man

If you really want to see how bad you are just run for public office.

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16 hours ago, Duncan said:

One thing that befuddles me is that people seem to accuse Hillary of being somehow responsible for her husband's behaviour, is a woman to blame for her cheater husband? There is a difference between sexual assault and cheating. Trump is a pig but an election shouldn't be about who is less of a sexual predator! 

Not responsible for them but she is responsible for abetting him in them.  They have been partners in graft and corruption from the very beginning.

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1 hour ago, ERayR said:

Isn't it amazing how that Gaddianton thing works?

It's true that both candidates have muddy hands and the power, influence, and money to keep from suffering the consequences for it (in this life anyway).  For that reason it really is hard to have much hope for our government no matter who wins.  The inner circles are set up to reward injustice and there's not much anyone outside of the circle can do about it.

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1 hour ago, oremites said:

For me, the right and moral choice for President is Donald Trump.

I normally avoid politics and hate getting involved with it (to the point I feel I'm shirking my duty as a citizen), so I don't claim any special insights.  These are my opinions and I'm not really interested in defending them, so take them for what they're worth.

I initially dismissed Trump as a serious candidate, but then began to notice how completely biased the media was against him.  I began looking into him independently of the normal media channels and liked what I saw.  For example, he'll give an hour policy speech and one phrase will be taken out of context and twisted and discussed to death while the rest of what he said will be completely ignored.  It reminded me a lot of conference time around here.  

I don't feel Donald Trump is an immoral person.  No doubt he has done immoral things, but I think he's a good person at heart.  I've been acquainted with many people over the years that didn't live up to LDS, or even their own, standards, but they were still good people trying to do what they felt was right.

By the way, that's one of things I hate about politics.  There are many people out there with wisdom and experience who would love to serve their community, state or country in an elected office, but who haven't lived a perfect life.  They realize that if they ran for office, their lives would be scrutinized and every bad choice and mistake would be broadcast to the world.  Better to just not get involved.

Donald Trump has spelled out his policies and positions to make the country better.  I don't want to stretch out this post going over them, but I'll mention one in particular because it's personal to me.  He has specific plans for cleaning up the V.A. mess.  Everybody elses' plan seems to be business as usual.  I absolutely reject the idea that his campaign is nothing but hate and fear.

So I'm voting for Trump because I think he's a good candidate, not because I'm holding my nose.

And yes, I hate Hillary.  She's got so many things wrong with her, but the two that completely disqualify her in my mind are how she treated the people of Haiti and the people and country of Libya.  Which reminds me, Trump is the candidate for peace.  Hillary is the candidate for war.

And if I'm completely wrong about him?  We're a country of laws and separation of powers.  The politicians on both the right and the left don't like him, so they're not going to let him get away with much if he tries anything too damaging.  On the other hand, it's already clear that they'll let Hillary get away with pretty much anything.

 

Trump was my 17th choice as a candidate.  I don't really know what is true about him because discerning truth during a campaign is very hard.  I will vote for him because I hope he will do some things I agree with.  I was up late bored and had the news on in the background and a rally was on in Denver.  I found this clip very interesting about religious freedom.  Listen to the crowd when Trump mentions religious freedom.  He was surprised by the reaction from the people in the audience. One other thing I liked hearing was Trump reiterating he wants to build a wall--but a wall with big beautiful doors to let people in legally. This is a very long clip and I'm not tech savvy enough to shorten it so watch at the 3:12:50 mark for the reaction of the crowd when he mentions religious freedom. This is an issue Americans care about. https://youtu.be/KIKNSZ_Nf3w?t=3h12m50s

 

 

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 1:07 AM, Darren10 said:

Yet there is not instance about him actually grabbing a woman by the *****. At least I don't know of one. . The most credible story I have heard regarding Trump's improprieties was from Miss Utah who said he kissed her on the lips without permission. 

Whaaaat....?  There've been 11 women who have made public accusations and have secured legal counsel against Trump...

http://fortune.com/2016/10/23/trump-sexual-assault-11th-accuser/

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3 minutes ago, ERayR said:

How is it that public accusations equal guilt for Trump and a pass for Clinton?

On the other hand, trump confessed on tape to sexual assault, so there's that. 

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51 minutes ago, ERayR said:

How is it that public accusations equal guilt for Trump and a pass for Clinton?

Agreed. And how does a porn star legitimately stand up to Trump's misogyny?

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48 minutes ago, Gray said:

On the other hand, trump confessed on tape to sexual assault, so there's that. 

Nope, he did not.

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17 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Nope, he did not.

I heard it with my own two ears, Darren. 

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On Saturday, November 05, 2016 at 8:27 PM, rpn said:

Billl Maher, just wants a liberal "progressive" agenda.   He wasn't being kind to Mormons.   He was deciding and arguing refusing to vote for Trump somehow makes you someone who lives what you believe.   For those of us who are going to vote for Trump, it is insulting.  And not a little naive.

One thing some of us realize is how many barriers Trump has broken in his campaign,  some rarely or never ever done before, and not in a good way. Trump has been the most ignorant of nominees, he's undermined the confidence in the voting process before the election, he's spent a ton of energy fighting his own political allies, he's refused point blank to acknowledge things we've seen or heard ourselves, he's joked about his opponent getting assassinated, about Russia hacking the US, he's attacked POWs, veterans, families of dead soldiers.

I was never a fan of Clinton, but Trump has made me want her in the White House. He's an ignorant, authoritative, vulgar, unserious man.

I know there are serious objections to Clinton. Were it a legitimate statesman running against her on the R ticket I'd be against her. 

But the nomination of Trump has created a non-partisan, critical emergency: he's a disaster for law and order, for democracy and decency. If he gets elected I won't enjoy the proof of that, but I wonder how much further his supporters will sink with him.

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17 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

One thing some of us realize is how many barriers Trump has broken in his campaign,  some rarely or never ever done before, and not in a good way. Trump has been the most ignorant of nominees, he's undermined the confidence in the voting process before the election, he's spent a ton of energy fighting his own political allies, he's refused point blank to acknowledge things we've seen or heard ourselves, he's joked about his opponent getting assassinated, about Russia hacking the US, he's attacked POWs, veterans, families of dead soldiers.

I was never a fan of Clinton, but Trump has made me want her in the White House. He's an ignorant, authoritative, vulgar, unserious man.

I know there are serious objections to Clinton. Were it a legitimate statesman running against her on the R ticket I'd be against her. 

But the nomination of Trump has created a non-partisan, critical emergency: he's a disaster for law and order, for democracy and decency. If he gets elected I won't enjoy the proof of that, but I wonder how much further his supporters will sink with him.

The fact that Trump was not endorsed by the Deseret News tells me that the leaders of the church do not support Trump either. Not that that should necessarily sway anyone's views, but given that this is an LDS board I think it's relevent. 

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18 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

One thing some of us realize is how many barriers Trump has broken in his campaign,  some rarely or never ever done before, and not in a good way. Trump has been the most ignorant of nominees, he's undermined the confidence in the voting process before the election, he's spent a ton of energy fighting his own political allies, he's refused point blank to acknowledge things we've seen or heard ourselves, he's joked about his opponent getting assassinated, about Russia hacking the US, he's attacked POWs, veterans, families of dead soldiers.

I was never a fan of Clinton, but Trump has made me want her in the White House. He's an ignorant, authoritative, vulgar, unserious man.

I know there are serious objections to Clinton. Were it a legitimate statesman running against her on the R ticket I'd be against her. 

But the nomination of Trump has created a non-partisan, critical emergency: he's a disaster for law and order, for democracy and decency. If he gets elected I won't enjoy the proof of that, but I wonder how much further his supporters will sink with him.

I agree, but can't for the life of me see anything wrong with Clinton as far as her being evil or corrupt. Every time I fact check things said against her, it tends to be proven incorrect.

But I have seen Trump doing things with my own eyes, I don't need to fact check when I've seen and witnessed it.  

 

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1 minute ago, Gray said:

The fact that Trump was not endorsed by the Deseret News tells me that the leaders of the church do not support Trump either. Not that that should necessarily sway anyone's views, but given that this is an LDS board I think it's relevent. 

The Deseret News article warning against him was excellent. 

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22 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I agree, but can't for the life of me see anything wrong with Clinton as far as her being evil or corrupt. Every time I fact check things said against her, it tends to be proven incorrect.

But I have seen Trump doing things with my own eyes, I don't need to fact check when I've seen and witnessed it.  

 

I've been Republican my whole life and very partisan for most of that. But I'm deeply ashamed at how far gone my party is, voters included, to fight the left.  It's as if the "moral majority" dropped its brain somewhere only to very rapidly become the immoral minority.

Edited by Meadowchik

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Maybe having lost the election last time in part because many EVs and others let their religious convictions convince them not to support Romney, perhaps this time many have decided the cost of doing such isn't worth it and it is more important to have someone who can beat Clinton.

Or maybe it is more 'as long as someone doesn't teach something different than my beliefs, he is okay even if he doesn't live the principles that well'.

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3 hours ago, ERayR said:

How is it that public accusations equal guilt for Trump and a pass for Clinton?

Not sure what you mean... Who's publically accusing Secretary Clinton...?  And who's giving her a pass?

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3 hours ago, Darren10 said:

Agreed. And how does a porn star legitimately stand up to Trump's misogyny?

Are you saying a porn star doesn't have ethical or moral standing to claim victimization if she is sexually assaulted outside of her line of work...? 

Or do you mean a porn star's testimony can't be credible simply because of her profession?

Or do I have both of those wrong, and you mean something entirely different?  If so, could you please clarify?

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3 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

Not sure what you mean... Who's publically accusing Secretary Clinton...?  And who's giving her a pass?

Come now you are not that uninformed. 

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1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

One thing some of us realize is how many barriers Trump has broken in his campaign,  some rarely or never ever done before, and not in a good way. Trump has been the most ignorant of nominees, he's undermined the confidence in the voting process before the election, he's spent a ton of energy fighting his own political allies, he's refused point blank to acknowledge things we've seen or heard ourselves, he's joked about his opponent getting assassinated, about Russia hacking the US, he's attacked POWs, veterans, families of dead soldiers.

I was never a fan of Clinton, but Trump has made me want her in the White House. He's an ignorant, authoritative, vulgar, unserious man.

I know there are serious objections to Clinton. Were it a legitimate statesman running against her on the R ticket I'd be against her. 

But the nomination of Trump has created a non-partisan, critical emergency: he's a disaster for law and order, for democracy and decency. If he gets elected I won't enjoy the proof of that, but I wonder how much further his supporters will sink with him.

A thousand times this....

While I certainly believe that Hillary is a seriously flawed and even compromised candidate in many ways, but the incompetence, arrogance, and ignorance of Trump is astonishing as it is dangerous.

If Romney were running, I'd actually vote for him over Hillary.  But we're stuck between the two.

I'd actually highly recommend the following podcast: The Lesser of Two Evils, by Sam Harris.

 

Edited by Daniel2

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5 minutes ago, ERayR said:

Come now you are not that uninformed. 

I definitely don't consider myself uninformed.  In fact, I've been more politically active, involved, and self-aware--I've watched all debates, read articles on all sides, followed media coverage from both conservative and liberal sources, etc.--during the course of this election than I have ever been during my life.

However, there's been so much mudslinging in this campaign I'm honestly not quite sure what you're referring to.

So, I ask again: to what/whom are you referring? 

Edited by Daniel2

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