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bluebell

A Republican o.k. with Mormon Genocide

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4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Absolutely.  It's a crime.

Why can't we just slap people anymore for getting out of line one time?

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8 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

OK then, charges it is. I just disagree on it in and of itself meriting charges and especially jail time.

Why?  If a man kissed a woman's breast and that is all he did, do you think it merits charges?  Or go with something more neutral...if a man kissed a woman's neck without her consent, do you think it merits charges?

Edited by Calm

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BlueBell and Cal;

 

If a woman forcefully kisses a man should he file a complaint against her and should she be equally prosecuted as if a man forcefully kisses a woman?

 

If so, then why do you too agree with Nehor's statement, "Yeah, I forgot that we poor oppressed white people are really the true victims of racism..."? This is particularly applicable to Cal who mentioned women suffering at the lips of men kissing them w/o permission. Or did you simply like the post in its entirety?

Edited by Darren10

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5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Why?  If a man kissed a woman's breast and that is all he did, do you think it merits charges?

That's different from the lips in my understanding. I do believe that lip kissing is the general acceptable area to kiss. Ditto for cheek kissing. People around the world do it as a token of friendship. I do not know of any place or society which kiss women's breast out of mutual friendship.

 

Any other comparisons you care to share?

Edited by Darren10

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3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Why?  If a man kissed a woman's breast and that is all he did, do you think it merits charges?

If a man forcefully grabbed your hand, not roughly but forcefully, without your knowing, and kissed it, would it merit charges?

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8 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Why can't we just slap people anymore for getting out of line one time?

Because they can block it easily, and more importantly that doesn't stop them from attacking others and too many people are frozen by the shock of the assault to respond quickly.

And there is no way for a woman to know with many men that if she slaps him, he won't respond back with a punch in her face.  I have a feeling that your belief that slaps were once a good deterrent is based on wishful thinking.

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8 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

That's different from the lips in my understanding. I do believe that lip kissing is the general acceptable area to kiss. People around the world do it as a token of friendship. I do not know of any place or society which kiss women's breast out of mutual friendship.

 

Any other comparisons you care to share?

We are talking about sexual contact, not friendship kissing.  If you are suggesting that mistakes may be made, a person may intend a kiss to be friendship and is mistaken for sexual contact, I agree.  But that was never the context we were discussing.  Trump did not brag he kissed the women or grabbed other areas out of friendship.

If you think because some people friendship kiss, that makes it excusable enough for a man to force unwanted sexual contact on the mouth to the point it should not be viewed as an assault or a crime, please clarify that is indeed your position as that is what it appears to me to be.

Edited by Calm

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12 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

If a man forcefully grabbed your hand, not roughly but forcefully, without your knowing, and kissed it, would it merit charges?

Back in the early years of the HIV virus it may have, they would have been scared of catching it. I think the grabbing women by their private parts does merit being charged. And someone kissing me, would also. Sorry, but you aren't a woman. Women have been abused by men so much with little inuendos etc. it's time to stop it, because little inuendos lead to even bigger problems. When men feel they have the okay for a kiss that will lead to more, and it has. Do you have daughters, would you want a stranger or even an aquaintance to kiss them forcefully? Make them feel like just because they're a woman it's okay to be a subordinate to this behaviour? 

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A blog on why telling a woman or anyone else "why don't you just slap him" is poor advice, including the fact that even women trained in self defense freeze up:

https://adainitiative.org/2013/08/27/why-dont-you-just-hit-him-the-worst-possible-anti-harassment-advice/

We are biologically wired not to be a threat to a larger, stronger individual.  It can take hours of emotional buildup to break that programming even if we have intentionally prepared ourselves to do so.

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It is highly unlikely that a man or woman who is willing to force himself/herself on another person sexually in any way is the type of person who would 'never slap a woman'.  Encouraging a woman to slap another for unwanted sexual advances is putting her in harm's way.  You have no idea if that slap will set off a more physical attack that could leave the woman injured or dead.  Possible escalation is a very, very real possibility.

Edited by Calm

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57 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Would it be legally be possible to overturn something like gay marriage or abortion rights just by the President saying so? I don't know and am honestly asking!

No, Trump doesn't have the power to overturn Supreme Court decisions. 

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/

A quick skim makes me believe the case has been dropped again.  There has been no confirmation/backup according to snopes of the accusations being made.  I don't find this accusation as one of the more credible ones.

"As of now, all of the information about this lawsuit comes solely from the complaint filed by "Katie Johnson," and no one has as yet located, identified, or interviewed her. She was scheduled to appear at a press conference on 2 November 2016 but didn't show up, claiming that threats to her life kept her away. She reportedly dropped the lawsuit again on 4 November 2016 for the same reason.

A status conference for the lawsuit was scheduled to be held on 16 December 2016."

It does not appear to have ever been a criminal prosecution.

It's been dropped and was fabricated. It's amazing this wasn't discussed more in the press at the time (sarcasm).http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3914012/Troubled-woman-history-drug-use-claimed-assaulted-Donald-Trump-Jeffrey-Epstein-sex-party-age-13-FABRICATED-story.html

Edited by bsjkki
forgot link

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1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

Well, can't argue with that. If it's hate against white, no big deal. Hate against Trump, no big deal, Trump's the one bringing out racism. He's the racial divider because he's white and Hillary's....white... but Democrat...so that doesn't matter.

How far "center right" is your political thinking again? Oh, how's your grandkids?

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/11/10/watch-anti-trump-rioter-people-have-to-die/

 

Racism is bad no matter what but there is a qualitative difference between the people who have power and the people who do not. Many of the Germans gassing the Jews hated and feared them while many of the Jews who died hated and feared the Germans. Are you suggesting some kind of moral equivalency there. For a less extreme example more close to home many Americans hated the Japanese we interned during the war and many of them hated the people interning them? Equivalent?

When minorities receive more severe punishment in our courts then others for equivalent crimes who is the more innocent though both sides may be racist?

By center right I mean I am center right. If someone like Kasich had won I would have voted for him gladly. If Cruz was chosen I would have had a tough choice as he is way too far right for my tastes and Clinton is pretty centrist (and I found her distasteful in other ways).

I do not have children or grandchildren. Was that intended as a dig at me?

Edited by The Nehor

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1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

Why can't we just slap people anymore for getting out of line one time?

Because I would end up on assault charges for all the people I had to hit.

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1 hour ago, Duncan said:

Would it be legally be possible to overturn something like gay marriage or abortion rights just by the President saying so? I don't know and am honestly asking!

No. It was a Supreme Court decision decided on constitutional grounds. To overturn you would need them to reverse their decision on another case brought before them or you would have to amend the constitution itself. The Republican Party victory will lead more to a conservative-leaning bench but I doubt it will be reversed.

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1 hour ago, Darren10 said:

Why can't we just slap people anymore for getting out of line one time?

Why can't we just slap people for breaking the law?  The next time some man comes up to you and kisses you forcefully without your permission you go ahead and slap him.    

From my perspective, slapping a man who has no respect for me as a woman is likely to get me punched in the face or worse.  It's generally really stupid to slap people who 1)-have already shown they don't mind assaulting you and 2)-are bigger and stronger than you are.  

Do you really not know that women have been seriously physically harmed for doing less than slapping a man for touching her without her permission?  Why would any woman in her right mind take that risk if she had other options?

 

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Because they can block it easily, and more importantly that doesn't stop them from attacking others and too many people are frozen by the shock of the assault to respond quickly.

And there is no way for a woman to know with many men that if she slaps him, he won't respond back with a punch in her face.  I have a feeling that your belief that slaps were once a good deterrent is based on wishful thinking.

Going to jail does not stop behavior neither. At least not in the vast majority of cases. If anything it magnifies bad behavior.

If a man can simply slap block a slap then learn how to slap better and follow up by getting out of the situation or wit more slapping. Now, you're presenting a situation where the man is clearly dangerous. Kissing, blocking the slap and then possibly punching the woman in the face. If a man acts inappropriately, and force kissing definitely falls into that category, and does not stop after getting slapped, GET AWAY FROM THAT MAN TO BEGIN WITH. Don't even consider hanging out with him.

Yes, there was a time when slapping a man stops his advances. Not in all cases of course but in general it most definitely did. It's not a deterrent so much as a wake up call. But if a man's conscience is so far off as to hit a woman back then that is a dangerous man.

I fail to see how Donald Trump is a dangerous man in this sense. At least not from the article which spurred this dialogue of ours.

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

We are talking about sexual contact, not friendship kissing.  If you are suggesting that mistakes may be made, a person may intend a kiss to be friendship and is mistaken for sexual contact, I agree.  But that was never the context we were discussing.  Trump did not brag he kissed the women or grabbed other areas out of friendship.

If you think because some people friendship kiss, that makes it excusable enough for a man to force unwanted sexual contact on the mouth to the point it should not be viewed as an assault or a crime, please clarify that is indeed your position as that is what it appears to me to be.

Yes, we are *but* sexual contact is defined by societies is it not? And since kissing on the lips and more commonly the cheek is universally accepted, getting forced kissed on the lips or cheek is quite different than on the breast.

"If you think because some people friendship kiss, that makes it excusable enough for a man to force unwanted sexual contact on the mouth to the point it should not be viewed as an assault or a crime, please clarify that is indeed your position as that is what it appears to me to be."

Cal, your view of things is different than mine. Yes, people friendship all the time all around the world. Italians are quite prolific at it, especially the women. Same goes for all around Latin America. None of these societies permit sexual assault though I would be greatly surprised if they go about viewing a forced kiss as worthy of legal recourse.

No, it is not permitted nor permissible. I am only focusing on the reasonable recourse to take after a forced kiss occurs. I do not think Donald Trump should be prosecuted for kissing anyone.

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11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Why can't we just slap people for breaking the law?  The next time some man comes up to you and kisses you forcefully without your permission you go ahead and slap him.    

From my perspective, slapping a man who has no respect for me as a woman is likely to get me punched in the face or worse.  It's generally really stupid to slap people who 1)-have already shown they don't mind assaulting you and 2)-are bigger and stronger than you are.  

Do you really not know that women have been seriously physically harmed for doing less than slapping a man for touching her without her permission?  Why would any woman in her right mind take that risk if she had other options?

 

"Why can't we just slap people for breaking the law?"

Sounds good to me.

 "The next time some man comes up to you and kisses you forcefully without your permission you go ahead and slap him."

Sounds good to me. you do the same.

 

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20 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Going to jail does not stop behavior neither. At least not in the vast majority of cases. If anything it magnifies bad behavior.

If a man can simply slap block a slap then learn how to slap better and follow up by getting out of the situation or wit more slapping. Now, you're presenting a situation where the man is clearly dangerous. Kissing, blocking the slap and then possibly punching the woman in the face. If a man acts inappropriately, and force kissing definitely falls into that category, and does not stop after getting slapped, GET AWAY FROM THAT MAN TO BEGIN WITH. Don't even consider hanging out with him.

Yes, there was a time when slapping a man stops his advances. Not in all cases of course but in general it most definitely did. It's not a deterrent so much as a wake up call. But if a man's conscience is so far off as to hit a woman back then that is a dangerous man.

I fail to see how Donald Trump is a dangerous man in this sense. At least not from the article which spurred this dialogue of ours.

Whoa, you didn't listen to his words very well, maybe not at all, did you listen to the video at all? 

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14 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

"Why can't we just slap people for breaking the law?"

Sounds good to me.

 "The next time some man comes up to you and kisses you forcefully without your permission you go ahead and slap him."

Sounds good to me. you do the same.

 

What planet do you live on?

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23 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Why can't we just slap people for breaking the law?  The next time some man comes up to you and kisses you forcefully without your permission you go ahead and slap him.    

From my perspective, slapping a man who has no respect for me as a woman is likely to get me punched in the face or worse.  It's generally really stupid to slap people who 1)-have already shown they don't mind assaulting you and 2)-are bigger and stronger than you are.  

Do you really not know that women have been seriously physically harmed for doing less than slapping a man for touching her without her permission?  Why would any woman in her right mind take that risk if she had other options?

 

"From my perspective, slapping a man who has no respect for me as a woman is likely to get me punched in the face or worse.  It's generally really stupid to slap people who 1)-have already shown they don't mind assaulting you and 2)-are bigger and stronger than you are.  

Do you really not know that women have been seriously physically harmed for doing less than slapping a man for touching her without her permission?  Why would any woman in her right mind take that risk if she had other options?"

Then raise up to the occasion and protect yourself. Learn to effectively slap a man who gets out of line and then get out of the situation or do some more effective slapping. Stop viewing yourself as so fragile and volatile.

 

Carry a gun and/or a knife and/or pepper spray. Learn to break a man's neck but stop pouting about how useless women are in protecting themselves. Criminetly feminism is destroying women .

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24 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Going to jail does not stop behavior neither. At least not in the vast majority of cases. If anything it magnifies bad behavior.

If a man can simply slap block a slap then learn how to slap better and follow up by getting out of the situation or wit more slapping. Now, you're presenting a situation where the man is clearly dangerous. Kissing, blocking the slap and then possibly punching the woman in the face. If a man acts inappropriately, and force kissing definitely falls into that category, and does not stop after getting slapped, GET AWAY FROM THAT MAN TO BEGIN WITH. Don't even consider hanging out with him.

Yes, there was a time when slapping a man stops his advances. Not in all cases of course but in general it most definitely did. It's not a deterrent so much as a wake up call. But if a man's conscience is so far off as to hit a woman back then that is a dangerous man.

I fail to see how Donald Trump is a dangerous man in this sense. At least not from the article which spurred this dialogue of ours.

You are weird.

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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

What planet do you live on?

Not Utah.

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