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A Republican o.k. with Mormon Genocide

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1 hour ago, Gray said:

I'm trying to figure out what the values of the GOP are these days. They don't appear to have any left. 

Something about taxation and more aircraft carriers.

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23 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

"The rule of law does not require that every offense be prosecuted no matter what" - Despite that's where you were going by bringing up Melania Trump, that is correct. I find what Clinton did as so severe that it must be looked into. Not while the US Attorney General herself meets secretly with her husband days before the FBI was to make its recommendation for prosecution. That in and of itself reeks of partiality and favoritism. Doing that is precisely contrary to the rule of law. Clinton must be looked into by people not already concluding that she should be prosecuted. This has nothing to do with prosecuting everything but when the secretary of State blatantly violates the Espionage Act, which does not require intent, it should be looked into. You cite petty crimes for crimes which shares national secrets with maids, potential p*d*ph*les, the Russian government, etc. Stay on topic. Make some  comparisons that are al least equal in severity.

Note that I said that we should NOT investigate her but according to the strict rule of law we should.

As to whether the emails should be looked into what the hell do you think we have been doing? You are suggesting the scandal that may have cost her the election is somehow being ignored? They looked into it. They decided not to prosecute.

As to the secret meetings that supposedly got her off.....yeah, whatever. You want there to be a conspiracy and want her prosecuted. It would not help the country. It would not remove a dangerous person from office (she is leaving anyways) so stop. Everything the rule of law demands has been done. You do not have the facts that enable you to critique the legalities. You just want to believe the worst and want her to suffer because you oppose her. Stop being a terrible vengeful person.

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27 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Correct. The New Black Panthers and Black Lives Matter groups should be axed from the Republican table.

Yeah, I forgot that we poor oppressed white people are really the true victims of racism. And the Black Panthers are definitely dancing in the streets over these election results. Nice attempt at being cute though.

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12 hours ago, Darren10 said:

No, they recommend that she not be prosecuted. James Comey clearly outlined how Hillary broke the law but said "no resonable prosecutor" would pursue charges against het. She indeniably broke the law but when Loretta Lynch meets secretly on a plane with Bill days before the FBI was goung to release its recommendations on pursuing prosecution against Hillary, who was surprised at Comey's decision? 

Please tell me you don't see the actions of Lynch as improper and grossly partial. 

 

CLARIFICATION: Yes, Comey did tell a congressional oversight committee that Hillary did not break the law but in past testimony he clearly outlined that she did and even warned future State Department emplyees not to do what Hillary did or risk prisecution. This is not the rule of law. 

Personally, I don't blame Comey for anything...it is the DOJ that really needs an overhaul..law and order should always be no matter who you are and what you have done.  I just want fairness whether rich or poor.  I can forget the emails..but perhaps the Clinton Foundation needs another look at.  IMO.

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15 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Personally, I don't blame Comey for anything...it is the DOJ that really needs an overhaul..law and order should always be no matter who you are and what you have done.  I just want fairness whether rich or poor.  I can forget the emails..but perhaps the Clinton Foundation needs another look at.  IMO.

Probably, though the Trump Foundation also needs a closer look.

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13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Probably, though the Trump Foundation also needs a closer look.

I agree with that also.  For sure!

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14 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

She broke the law, they decided not to charge her.

No, they decided that she didn't break the law.  Time to let it go.

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1 hour ago, Marmonboy said:

I actually think Trump will be one of the least effective presidents ever. He's buried in lawsuits, the liberals/Democrats aren't going to give him the time of day. we may see the most stonewalled, stopped-up government in history. Unless he sets up the fascist dictatorship liberals think he will, nothing will get done due to the filibustering, partisan fighting that will be the next four years. And I'm not advocating a fascist anything--I like my freedom, too.

He's got issues, that's for sure but I think the most stonewalling presidency in history is about to come to a close.

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Lots of discussion about Hillary's having broken the law...

From what I understand, Trump is facing two upcoming trials: one for Fraud (regarding Trump University) and one for child-rape.

What crazy times we live in...

While I was stunned that Trump won the election, and I harbor concerns about how his presidency (and the combined Republican sweep of the Legislative branches) will affect minorities (including the progress made on behalf of the LGBT community, my marriage, and the ability of businesses and government agencies to discriminate against families like my husband's and mine), after a day of decompressing from the shock, it's my firm belief that irrational fears stoked by the fires of radicalism from ANY side need to be acknowledged as the unlikely fears driven by the irrationality of the inherent demonization that all-too-often accompanies the deep partisan nature of our dual-party system.

The days leading up to this election have been particularly divisive (to put it mildly) and profoundly negative.  The need to bolder the justification we feel in supporting our own particular cause is unfortunately tied to the de-humanizing the views and humanity of "the other" candidate.... the "other" side.

But the truth is, those of us who are citizens of the United States of America are Americans first, not members of any given political party.

And while I understand that we don't all share the same goals, the reality is that the America that was here two weeks ago is still here today.  We will continue to struggle through politics, regardless of who's sitting in the Oval office, as different ideas about equality, justice, and fairness continue to shape the ongoing political dialogue.

I may have fears about Trump, and there may be a great many things I don't like about him (just as I could honestly say the same about Hillary Clinton, despite my vote for her), he is now our President Elect.

As always, in the days emerging from the dark and contentious leading up to an election, it's time to set aside past anger, fear, or disappointment, roll up our sleeves and begin the great work of rebuilding and coming together.

I don't know what the future holds for either Trump or Clinton, but we'll continue to press forward with the work of maintaining the greatness of America, and increasing it to whatever degrees we can, as well.

 

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1 hour ago, Marmonboy said:

I actually think Trump will be one of the least effective presidents ever. He's buried in lawsuits, the liberals/Democrats aren't going to give him the time of day. we may see the most stonewalled, stopped-up government in history. Unless he sets up the fascist dictatorship liberals think he will, nothing will get done due to the filibustering, partisan fighting that will be the next four years. And I'm not advocating a fascist anything--I like my freedom, too.

So far as "getting things done", why should we do that easily if the founders created a government which it is difficult to "get things done"? I find political stalemate as a great friend to freedom loving people.

Edited by Darren10

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1 minute ago, Daniel2 said:

Lots of discussion about Hillary's having broken the law...

From what I understand, Trump is facing two upcoming trials: one for Fraud (regarding Trump University) and one for child-rape.

What crazy times we live in...

While I was stunned that Trump won the election, and I harbor concerns about how his presidency (and the combined Republican sweep of the Legislative branches) will affect minorities (including the progress made on behalf of the LGBT community, my marriage, and the ability of businesses and government agencies to discriminate against families like my husband's and mine), after a day of decompressing from the shock, it's my firm belief that irrational fears stoked by the fires of radicalism from ANY side need to be acknowledged as the unlikely fears driven by the irrationality of the inherent demonization that all-too-often accompanies the deep partisan nature of our dual-party system.

The days leading up to this election have been particularly divisive (to put it mildly) and profoundly negative.  The need to bolder the justification we feel in supporting our own particular cause is unfortunately tied to the de-humanizing the views and humanity of "the other" candidate.... the "other" side.

But the truth is, those of us who are citizens of the United States of America are Americans first, not members of any given political party.

And while I understand that we don't all share the same goals, the reality is that the America that was here two weeks ago is still here today.  We will continue to struggle through politics, regardless of who's sitting in the Oval office, as different ideas about equality, justice, and fairness continue to shape the ongoing political dialogue.

I may have fears about Trump, and there may be a great many things I don't like about him (just as I could honestly say the same about Hillary Clinton, despite my vote for her), he is now our President Elect.

As always, in the days emerging from the dark and contentious leading up to an election, it's time to set aside past anger, fear, or disappointment, roll up our sleeves and begin the great work of rebuilding and coming together.

I don't know what the future holds for either Trump or Clinton, but we'll continue to press forward with the work of maintaining the greatness of America, and increasing it to whatever degrees we can, as well.

 

The fraud has merit the child rape case nothing will come of it.

That's what I say and therefore it is. :)

Edited by Darren10

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3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

This is ridiculous. The rule of law does not require that every offense be prosecuted no matter what. By this standard every time a cop checks my speed if I am going half a mph over the speed limit I should be fined or the rule of law is threatened. Whenever the government or a business finds an employee breaking the law instead of quickly firing them they should make sure charges are filed every time. Are you consistent in this belief? Have you ever turned yourself in for software piracy or jaywalking? Do you report things you buy online but pay no taxes on when you do your income taxes?

Darren, Should Trump be prosecuted for misdemeanor assault for unwanted/forced kissing?

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Note that I said that we should NOT investigate her but according to the strict rule of law we should.

As to whether the emails should be looked into what the hell do you think we have been doing? You are suggesting the scandal that may have cost her the election is somehow being ignored? They looked into it. They decided not to prosecute.

As to the secret meetings that supposedly got her off.....yeah, whatever. You want there to be a conspiracy and want her prosecuted. It would not help the country. It would not remove a dangerous person from office (she is leaving anyways) so stop. Everything the rule of law demands has been done. You do not have the facts that enable you to critique the legalities. You just want to believe the worst and want her to suffer because you oppose her. Stop being a terrible vengeful person.

And please note that I said we should investigate her *because* her acts were so reckless and dangerous to our nation. According to the "rule of law", all should be treated equally. Why should someone go to jail for doing far less serious a crime than Hillary? Because Hillary had no intent on breaking the law? Because Comey said she did not break the law after Loretta Lynch met secretly with Hillary's husband (to talk about grandchildren, of course) soon before Comey released his findings which favored Hillary?  That's not the rule of law. That's the rule of an elite class over a non elite class. I've no desire to live in a country which once you make it so far up the political chain, you're immune from punitive consequences for your actions. The rule of law helps me achieve that.

As for the emails, it is 100% clear sensitive information was given to non authorized personal. But, Hillary broke no law when it is the law that no unauthorized personal should have access to that information? That's the rule of law? No, that's the rule of Hillary getting a pass after breaking the law. That's what the hell is going on. That's what the hell government has been doing. But, they did decide not to prosecute, so I guess it's settled.

"As to the secret meetings that supposedly got her off.....yeah, whatever. You want there to be a conspiracy and want her prosecuted." - I strongly sense a conspiracy and getting official information about what went on in that plane would be nice. The US Attorney General and a former President of the United States to not "accidentally" land in the same airport at the same time. It is utterly impossible with the amount of coordination which goes into planning and executing flights of top governmental officials. I guess they could have met to talk about grandkids but I really do not think so. The timing is greatly suspicious too. Right before the FBI was to release its findings? Really? Coincidence? Is talking grandkids really normally that important to met and talk about. The meeting alone is a gross appearance of partiality one which Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton know should NEVER take place during the Clinton investigation. But, you ,know, grandkids, aren't they great?

"Everything the rule of law demands has been done." - Nope. The rule of law demands that Hillary gets treated without favoritism.

"You do not have the facts that enable you to critique the legalities. You just want to believe the worst and want her to suffer because you oppose her. Stop being a terrible vengeful person." - Hey, I thought you were opposed to public mockery and here you are baring false witness against me. I guess you know my psyche better than me. Oh, how's your grandkids?   

If things were not so blatantly biased there would be no Donald Trump right now. Something you and I would be relieved of.

Edited by Darren10

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Probably, though the Trump Foundation also needs a closer look.

Both need to be looked at IMO if they continued to solicit/accept donations from the 'little' guy so that everyone donating knows enough to know their money is being used in the fashion they desire.  

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11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Darren, Should Trump be prosecuted for misdemeanor assault for unwanted/forced kissing?

Didn't we talk about this? Kissing someone years ago? You tell me. How many jail cells are currently filled for kissing? How about fines? If you were forcefully kissed you would file charges? I imagine you'd stand your ground and set standards immediately not to cross lest there be charges and consequences subsequent to that first kiss.

How's your grandkids?

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Probably, though the Trump Foundation also needs a closer look.

Sounds good.

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1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

Personally, I don't blame Comey for anything...it is the DOJ that really needs an overhaul..law and order should always be no matter who you are and what you have done.  I just want fairness whether rich or poor.  I can forget the emails..but perhaps the Clinton Foundation needs another look at.  IMO.

Quite possible Comey was pressured by the DOJ but then that would indicate the rule of law was not carried out, would it? The emails is only one part to look into Hillary.

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http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/

A quick skim makes me believe the case has been dropped again.  There has been no confirmation/backup according to snopes of the accusations being made.  I don't find this accusation as one of the more credible ones.

"As of now, all of the information about this lawsuit comes solely from the complaint filed by "Katie Johnson," and no one has as yet located, identified, or interviewed her. She was scheduled to appear at a press conference on 2 November 2016 but didn't show up, claiming that threats to her life kept her away. She reportedly dropped the lawsuit again on 4 November 2016 for the same reason.

A status conference for the lawsuit was scheduled to be held on 16 December 2016."

It does not appear to have ever been a criminal prosecution.

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, I forgot that we poor oppressed white people are really the true victims of racism. And the Black Panthers are definitely dancing in the streets over these election results. Nice attempt at being cute though.

Well, can't argue with that. If it's hate against white, no big deal. Hate against Trump, no big deal, Trump's the one bringing out racism. He's the racial divider because he's white and Hillary's....white... but Democrat...so that doesn't matter.

How far "center right" is your political thinking again? Oh, how's your grandkids?

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/11/10/watch-anti-trump-rioter-people-have-to-die/

 

Edited by Darren10

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10 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

And please note that I said we should investigate her *because* her acts were so reckless and dangerous to our nation. According to the "rule of law", all should be treated equally. Why should someone go to jail for doing far less serious a crime than Hillary? Because Hillary had no intent on breaking the law? Because Comey said she did not break the law after Loretta Lynch met secretly with Hillary's husband (to talk about grandchildren, of course) soon before Comey released his findings which favored Hillary?  That's not the rule of law. That's the rule of an elite class over a non elite class. I've no desire to live in a country which once you make it so far up the political chain, you're immune from punitive consequences for your actions. The rule of law helps me achieve that.

As for the emails, it is 100% clear sensitive information was given to non authorized personal. But, Hillary broke no law when it is the law that no unauthorized personal should have access to that information? That's the rule of law? No, that's the rule of Hillary getting a pass after breaking the law. That's what the hell is going on. That's what the hell government has been doing. But, they did decide not to prosecute, so I guess it's settled.

"As to the secret meetings that supposedly got her off.....yeah, whatever. You want there to be a conspiracy and want her prosecuted." - I strongly sense a conspiracy and getting official information about what went on in that plane would be nice. The US Attorney General and a former President of the United States to not "accidentally" land in the same airport at the same time. It is utterly impossible with the amount of coordination which goes into planning and executing flights of top governmental officials. I guess they could have met to talk about grandkids but I really do not think so. The timing is greatly suspicious too. Right before the FBI was to release its findings? Really? Coincidence? Is talking grandkids really normally that important to met and talk about. The meeting alone is a gross appearance of partiality one which Loretta Lynch and Bill Clinton know should NEVER take place during the Clinton investigation. But, you ,know, grandkids, aren't they great?

"Everything the rule of law demands has been done." - Nope. The rule of law demands that Hillary gets treated without favoritism.

"You do not have the facts that enable you to critique the legalities. You just want to believe the worst and want her to suffer because you oppose her. Stop being a terrible vengeful person." - Hey, I thought you were opposed to public mockery and here you are baring false witness against me. I guess you know my psyche better than me. Oh, how's your grandkids?   

If things were not so blatantly biased there would be no Donald Trump right now. Something you and I would be relived of.

Darren,

From everything that I've read, over the last several decades, numerous officials--both Republican and Democrat--used private email servers, including classified documents, deleted hundreds of thousands of emails (both before AND AFTER court subpoenas), etc. (I've read that Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, George W. Bush, Bush Senior, VPs, etc.... ALL did the SAME thing Hillary is being derided for). 

I'm NOT saying Hillary is spotless or sinless... but you keep saying how she's being given an unfair break according to these conspiracy theories.  But based on what I've read, NO politician of her caliber has faced criminal charges for doing the exact same things that Hillary's done.  The ONLY reason people are so fierce in their condemnations of Hillary is that she had the audacity to run for President (with an admittedly less than stellar moral character).  These ongoing demands for her head, in the face of overwhelming evidence that politicians do the same things ALL the time), are what are unbalanced.

If you want Hillary to be accountable, it's hypocritical to go after her alone, without demanding accountability with equal zeal from all the other politicians who did the same.

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Just now, Daniel2 said:

Lots of discussion about Hillary's having broken the law...

From what I understand, Trump is facing two upcoming trials: one for Fraud (regarding Trump University) and one for child-rape.

What crazy times we live in...

While I was stunned that Trump won the election, and I harbor concerns about how his presidency (and the combined Republican sweep of the Legislative branches) will affect minorities (including the progress made on behalf of the LGBT community, my marriage, and the ability of businesses and government agencies to discriminate against families like my husband's and mine), after a day of decompressing from the shock, it's my firm belief that irrational fears stoked by the fires of radicalism from ANY side need to be acknowledged as the unlikely fears driven by the irrationality of the inherent demonization that all-too-often accompanies the deep partisan nature of our dual-party system.

The days leading up to this election have been particularly divisive (to put it mildly) and profoundly negative.  The need to bolder the justification we feel in supporting our own particular cause is unfortunately tied to the de-humanizing the views and humanity of "the other" candidate.... the "other" side.

But the truth is, those of us who are citizens of the United States of America are Americans first, not members of any given political party.

And while I understand that we don't all share the same goals, the reality is that the America that was here two weeks ago is still here today.  We will continue to struggle through politics, regardless of who's sitting in the Oval office, as different ideas about equality, justice, and fairness continue to shape the ongoing political dialogue.

I may have fears about Trump, and there may be a great many things I don't like about him (just as I could honestly say the same about Hillary Clinton, despite my vote for her), he is now our President Elect.

As always, in the days emerging from the dark and contentious leading up to an election, it's time to set aside past anger, fear, or disappointment, roll up our sleeves and begin the great work of rebuilding and coming together.

I don't know what the future holds for either Trump or Clinton, but we'll continue to press forward with the work of maintaining the greatness of America, and increasing it to whatever degrees we can, as well.

 

Would it be legally be possible to overturn something like gay marriage or abortion rights just by the President saying so? I don't know and am honestly asking!

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8 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

Didn't we talk about this? Kissing someone years ago? You tell me. How many jail cells are currently filled for kissing? How about fines? If you were forcefully kissed you would file charges? I imagine you'd stand your ground and set standards immediately not to cross lest there be charges and consequences subsequent to that first kiss.

How's your grandkids?

Yes, if someone attacked me by forcing a "kiss", I would file a complaint (prosecutors file charges I believe) for the first 'kiss'.  I see no reason to give someone a pass on that anymore that I would if they grabbed my breast, bum, or something else.  Using lips is as aggressive as using hands, my mouth is as much of my personal property as any other part of my body.

I suspect most who are charged with the misdemeanor assault that is forced 'kissing' (we need another term to differentiate between consensual kissing and nonconsenual kissing just as we have rape for nonconsenual sex) are fined or put on probation.  Unfortunately most women at this point in our culture probably do just brush it off and if they do 'stand up' to the guy, he can just move on to his next victim like someone would if they were caught stealing and told if they were found stealing in that store again, they would be charged would most likely just go find a store that looks like an easier target. 

I am not suggesting that Trump needs to go to jail or that such should be the result for all those found guilty of misdemeanor sexual misconduct/assault. I was pointing out that jail is an option solely to demonstrate it is actual sexual assault, it is a serious sexual crime that may result in jail time, though as is common with many other serious crimes lesser consequences may be attached.  Repeat offenders or those found guilty of multiple offenses of sexual misconduct/assault should be facing jail time, IMO.

Do you at least acknowledge that unwanted kissing is a sexual assault?

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24 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

If you were forcefully kissed you would file charges?

Absolutely.  It's a crime.

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12 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

Darren,

From everything that I've read, over the last several decades, numerous officials--both Republican and Democrat--used private email servers, including classified documents, deleted hundreds of thousands of emails (both before AND AFTER court subpoenas), etc. (I've read that Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, George W. Bush, Bush Senior, VPs, etc.... ALL did the SAME thing Hillary is being derided for). 

I'm NOT saying Hillary is spotless or sinless... but you keep saying how she's being given an unfair break according to these conspiracy theories.  But based on what I've read, NO politician of her caliber has faced criminal charges for doing the exact same things that Hillary's done.  The ONLY reason people are so fierce in their condemnations of Hillary is that she had the audacity to run for President (with an admittedly less than stellar moral character).  These ongoing demands for her head, in the face of overwhelming evidence that politicians do the same things ALL the time), are what are unbalanced.

If you want Hillary to be accountable, it's hypocritical to go after her alone, without demanding accountability with equal zeal from all the other politicians who did the same.

"From everything that I've read, over the last several decades, numerous officials--both Republican and Democrat--used private email servers, including classified documents, deleted hundreds of thousands of emails (both before AND AFTER court subpoenas), etc. (I've read that Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, George W. Bush, Bush Senior, VPs, etc.... ALL did the SAME thing Hillary is being derided for).  " - I've heard that before from Hillary. What do you and I guess her base that on?

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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yes, if someone attacked me by forcing a "kiss", I would file a complaint (prosecutors file charges I believe) for the first 'kiss'.  I see no reason to give someone a pass on that anymore that I would if they grabbed my breast, bum, or something else.  Using lips is as aggressive as using hands, my mouth is as much of my personal property as any other part of my body.

I suspect most who are charged with the misdemeanor assault that is forced 'kissing' (we need another term to differentiate between consensual kissing and nonconsenual kissing just as we have rape for nonconsenual sex) are fined or put on probation.  Unfortunately most women at this point in our culture probably do just brush it off and if they do 'stand up' to the guy, he can just move on to his next victim like someone would if they were caught stealing and told if they were found stealing in that store again, they would be charged would most likely just go find a store that looks like an easier target. 

I am not suggesting that Trump needs to go to jail or that such should be the result for all those found guilty of misdemeanor sexual misconduct/assault. I was pointing out that jail is an option solely to demonstrate it is actual sexual assault, it is a serious sexual crime that may result in jail time, though as is common with many other serious crimes lesser consequences may be attached.  Repeat offenders or those found guilty of multiple offenses of sexual misconduct/assault should be facing jail time, IMO.

Do you at least acknowledge that unwanted kissing is a sexual assault?

I do consider the face as a "special place" not to be touched by others. 

 

OK then, charges it is. I just disagree on it in and of itself meriting charges and especially jail time.

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