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MormonsandGays.org is updated...


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7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

A definitive declaration that this "will not change" is concerning and is an example of extreme hubris.

The purpose of the November policy was to send a strong signal of the unacceptability/incompatibility of homosexuality with the Church and the plan of salvation. I am confident that this won't ever change (more confident than I was prior to it) because it is the functional equivalent of colonists burning the ships to ensure that there is no going back. 

That's why I am skeptical of Bill Reel/John Dehlin's claims that the handbook will take this out next year. That kind of whipsaw-whiplash with the policy --- especially given the public outrage --- well, it's just hard to see that happening. 

Doubly so with down-the-road doctrinal changes regarding homosexuality/gay marriage. The nature of these statements is such that it is much different from historical statements on priesthood or polygamy. I think that doctrinal or significant policy changes re: gay marriage/homosexuality would be much more difficult for rank-and-file members than polygamy or the priesthood ban ever were.

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Your insinuation that the Church intends to hide or de-emphasize the site is quite wrong. I've known about it for several days now and have been somewhat privy to a plans to publicize it once it went online.

There will be a Church News story about it next week, and there are already online articles in the Deseret News and Salt Lake Tribune.

It certainly didn't take rockpond long to get wind of it; you might ask him how he heard the news.

I learned  from the evil John Dehlin and his site that the church was updating the site and changing the name.

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12 minutes ago, rockpond said:

That's not a link on the main LDS.org page.

I'm probably not understanding the issue--if not, my apologies; however, one can get to it quite easily from the main page: 

its under "Family and Individuals"; then "Understanding Life's Challenges"; then "Hope and Help"; and then "Mormon and Gay."

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1 minute ago, Okrahomer said:

I'm probably not understanding the issue--if not, my apologies; however, one can get to it quite easily from the main page: 

its under "Family and Individuals"; then "Understanding Life's Challenges"; then "Hope and Help"; and then "Mormon and Gay."

 

Only three menus deep.  Wow!

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4 minutes ago, rongo said:

The purpose of the November policy was to send a strong signal of the unacceptability/incompatibility of homosexuality with the Church and the plan of salvation. I am confident that this won't ever change (more confident than I was prior to it) because it is the functional equivalent of colonists burning the ships to ensure that there is no going back. 

That's why I am skeptical of Bill Reel/John Dehlin's claims that the handbook will take this out next year. That kind of whipsaw-whiplash with the policy --- especially given the public outrage --- well, it's just hard to see that happening. 

Doubly so with down-the-road doctrinal changes regarding homosexuality/gay marriage. The nature of these statements is such that it is much different from historical statements on priesthood or polygamy. I think that doctrinal or significant policy changes re: gay marriage/homosexuality would be much more difficult for rank-and-file members than polygamy or the priesthood ban ever were.

Your analogy to burning the ships is appropriate. I agree that the more they claim the current understanding is perfect doctrine that will never change, and is "revelation", they are in essence burning the ship future prophets and apostles may need to correct past mistakes. I think it's an intentional move on the part of the brethren. It's calculated and political.

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3 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Yes, you are definitely special.

I pointed it out only because I find Dehlin's access to accurate (but not yet public) information to be rather interesting.

Not all that interesting. The leaks recently of the videos from Church headquarters demonstrates there are traitors and thieves in every organization. Dehlin, like Wikileaks, a prominent outlet for such things.

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5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I pointed it out only because I find Dehlin's access to accurate (but not yet public) information to be rather interesting.

I first learned of it from him, as well, and have been checking the site over the last couple days for the change.

I also find it fascinating that Dehlin has access to such news and it's timing before it becomes widely known.  Clearly, he still has sources that are close enough to inside info that are surprising for one of his current.... status, as relating to the church.

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2 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

It's there on the main page now, Rock.

Church news.PNG

But that's a story. Not a permanent link like the others.

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Okrahomer-

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I'm probably not understanding the issue--if not, my apologies; however, one can get to it quite easily from the main page: 

its under "Family and Individuals"; then "Understanding Life's Challenges"; then "Hope and Help"; and then "Mormon and Gay."

That takes 4 clicks to get there. Hardly user friendly.

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4 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Definitely too difficult for rank-and-file members right now.  Fast forward a few decades and the opposite will be true.  Rank-and-file members will have as much difficulty with the Church's position on homosexuality as they did in 1977 regarding the racist temple and priesthood ban.

Hey rockpond, it's been a while since I've given you a countdown-clock reading.

It's now 38 years, 3 months, 2 weeks, 2 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes and 34 seconds.

 

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3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Not all that interesting. The leaks recently of the videos from Church headquarters demonstrates there are traitors and thieves in every organization. Dehlin, like Wikileaks, a prominent outlet for such things.

 

I wonder... how high up in the ranks of the church must one go before they won't find anyone else who sympathizes with the cause that Dehlin has been promoting.

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I just wanted to point out that there is another somewhat subtle difference in the title. The old site was mormonsandgays.org (and if you type that in you'll get redirected to the new Mormon and Gay site, both singular). I think it's an important distinction and at least takes away some of the "us vs. them" mentality.

In addition to the General Authority/General Officer videos, there are some other very good ones there from people who are Mormon and Gay and some people who love them.

Edited by Boanerges
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2 minutes ago, Boanerges said:

I just wanted to point out that there is another somewhat subtle difference in the title. The old site was mormonsandgays.org (and if you type that in you'll get redirected to the new Mormon and Gay site, both singular). I think it's an important distinction and at least takes away some of the "us vs. them" mentality.

In addition to the General Authority/General Officer videos, there are some other very good ones there from people who are Mormon and Gay and some people who love them.

 

I agree... I think that is a really good change (dropping the s).

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14 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Only three menus deep.  Wow!

Your concern then is that by having to "click" 3 times, instead of just once, the potential positive impact on the Church will be greatly reduced.  Does the 3-click rule no longer apply?

Edit:  Oops!  That's 4-clicks.  Got it.

Edited by Okrahomer
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31 minutes ago, rockpond said:

That's not a link on the main LDS.org page.

Yes, it's on the main page.

But you probably know that by now.

Right next to it is a link to videos on the mormonandgay website. The link shows a picture of Elder Oaks.

So there are actually two links to the site, juxtaposed with each other.

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11 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I wonder... how high up in the ranks of the church must one go before they won't find anyone else who sympathizes with the cause that Dehlin has been promoting.

Stealing property -- including intellectual property -- and violating confidences is dishonorable behavior regardless of where one's sympathies lie.

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3 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

Your concern then is that by having to "click" 3 times, instead of just once, the potential positive impact on the Church will be greatly reduced.  Does the 3-click rule no longer apply?

Edit:  Oops!  That's 4-clicks.  Got it.

 

I knew what I was looking for and couldn't find it.  It'll show up in searches and that's great.  Would be better to have it as a link on the main page so that members will know that the resource exists.

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2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Stealing property -- including intellectual property -- and violating confidences is dishonorable behavior regardless of where one's sympathies lie.

I agree.  And I still find it interesting that the sympathizers are there.

Edited by rockpond
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5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Yes, it's on the main page.

But you probably know that by now.

Right next to it is a link to videos on the mormonandgay website. The link shows a picture of Elder Oaks.

So there are actually two links to the site, juxtaposed with each other.

 

And if they stay there, that would be great.  But that section of the site changes constantly.  

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