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bsjkki

Mormons getting praise from liberals...

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5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

And i think the case could equally be made that we aren't.  It really depends on who you ask.  Both sides believe they are the only side that sees the real picture.

I agree...I was coming to delete my post because I felt it was too political and had nothing to do with Mormonism. Since you commented on it, I will leave it alone for a correct record of the conversation. The mods can delete if they find it necessary. :)

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22 hours ago, bsjkki said:

This article has hit my facebook feed today.  This version from Lds Living http://www.ldsliving.com/Why-the-Huff-Post-Said-Evangelicals-Should-Take-a-Lesson-from-Mormons/s/83467 and this one from LDS Daily http://www.ldsdaily.com/world/huffington-post-mormons-consciences-put-white-evangelicals-shame/.  They are both quoting from the Huffington Posts article.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mormons-consciences-have-put-white-evangelicals-to_us_5802d33de4b0985f6d15724c

My take is the author is just playing the Mormon vote.  It is in the best interest of a liberal democrat to have Utah vote 3rd party.  His condescension for evangelicals in this article is not something I would ever want to be associated with.  The article is a complete Trump hit piece because anyone who has studied this race would admit there is no moral high ground in this election.  He throws evangelicals under the bus for making a hard decision between two people with obvious character failings.  I'm disappointed with the editorial boards of both websites for associating with such a derogatory hit piece. I see past the propaganda and see Mormons being played...again.  

One question for all.  Is Wikileaks and Project Veritas moral or immoral to expose the behind the scenes corruption in our political system? Isn't that the best way to fight Gadianton Robbers? 

Is there some indication that the man who wrote the article is liberal? I don't see it. The source is generally more on the liberal end, but it doesn't mean the specific contributer is. I personally liked the article and didn't see it as a hit piece. I think it's a legitimate. Critique and may indicate the problem we have with  partisan voting and the allergic divide we have been building for years. I didn't see him lambasting trump and by virtue expecting ev's to vote for Clinton, but rather looking and holding up candidates that actually match closer one's values and does have some moral ground to stand on. My family are hyper political, most are die-hard conservatives, and the ones I've talked to fit the bill of Mormons despising trump. Some may vote Clinton but most are voting 3rd party. I think it's a fair point that if one is going to insist you are guided by value-laden constructs one would seek those who would better match their values. 

 

I'm biting my tongue as much as possible on complicated moral grounds in this political season. I have my opinions but that would break rules 

 

With luv, 

BD

 

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17 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Vote liberal/democrat.  It's the fastest way to bring about the end of all nations and the return of the Savior.

Because they will usher in the glorious Millenium? Or because the Apocalyptic Battles will be shorter because the siege warfare the Mexican hordes will need to overcome our amazing border wall (that they paid for) will take longer to bring down through the use of battering rams and sappers?

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I personally do not buy the "Hillary is worse" rhetoric. She is another establishment politician with the normal skeletons. Not what I hoped for but I believe that she will usher in the apocalypse the same way I believed the same eight years ago when I was told that Obama would bring about the end of democracy and usher in a new age of satanic liberal darkness but.......I still have religious freedom and a job and all the rest so the hyperbole is beginning to wear thin.

On the other hand we have a crazy person whose policy platforms shift by the day, who cannot remember what he said last week, nurses decades old grudges while accusing everyone else of having a thin skin, treats women as disposable, makes vague references to his opponent secretly meeting with international bankers (codeword amongst bigots for those filthy Jews) to plot the destruction of US sovereignty, openly calling for the commission of war crimes, and is preemptively calling fraud in an election where fraud will be almost impossible to pull off with no evidence in preparation for making him look less like a loser when he probably gets curb stomped.

You can always go third party though....but wait....these people are also crazy. Warning for profanity:

I will be proud if Utah goes for Clinton or (better) McMullin or even one of the weirdo third party people. I wish Evangelicals would join us in this. The Religious Right is becoming a bunch of Yes Men voting for one party "on principle" even if the candidate is a mockery of said principles. Voting for someone else tells the GOP to (to quote President Uchtdorf): STOP IT! Pick a good candidate of reasonable moral character or we are out and you can lose the election. I am ashamed to watch the same conservatives who (rightly) raked Bill Clinton over the coals for his infidelity turn and try to defend Trump for not only doing the same thing but openly bragging about it. You can't have it both ways. Part of me secretly hopes the GOP collapses and from the ashes we can kick out all the yahoos and get a real reasonable Rightist party without all this garbage baggage we haul around and pander to.

Edited by The Nehor

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In essence the article says that EVs didn't vote for Romney because he is a Mormon, but they will hold their collective noses and vote for Trump even if he is one letter short of  a Mormon.

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20 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

In essence the article says that EVs didn't vote for Romney because he is a Mormon, but they will hold their collective noses and vote for Trump even if he is one letter short of  a Mormon.

Okay, that was clever.

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On 10/17/2016 at 8:19 PM, ERayR said:

Be wary of liberals bearing alms.

Maybe if we build the wall Trump can convince the Mexicans to send us a large wooden horse to reimburse us for the cost. Then you will see that gifts are a good thing.

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On 10/17/2016 at 3:12 PM, bsjkki said:

This article has hit my facebook feed today.  This version from Lds Living http://www.ldsliving.com/Why-the-Huff-Post-Said-Evangelicals-Should-Take-a-Lesson-from-Mormons/s/83467 and this one from LDS Daily http://www.ldsdaily.com/world/huffington-post-mormons-consciences-put-white-evangelicals-shame/.  They are both quoting from the Huffington Posts article.  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mormons-consciences-have-put-white-evangelicals-to_us_5802d33de4b0985f6d15724c

My take is the author is just playing the Mormon vote.  It is in the best interest of a liberal democrat to have Utah vote 3rd party.  His condescension for evangelicals in this article is not something I would ever want to be associated with.  The article is a complete Trump hit piece because anyone who has studied this race would admit there is no moral high ground in this election.  He throws evangelicals under the bus for making a hard decision between two people with obvious character failings.  I'm disappointed with the editorial boards of both websites for associating with such a derogatory hit piece. I see past the propaganda and see Mormons being played...again.  

One question for all.  Is Wikileaks and Project Veritas moral or immoral to expose the behind the scenes corruption in our political system? Isn't that the best way to fight Gadianton Robbers? 

 

I would certainly disagree with the "no moral high ground in this election" claim. Voting Trump is THE moral high ground in this election and it is quite high in comparison to the other choices because of the stakes.  Recall how the Democrats circled around Bill Clinton in the 1990's despite the fact that the allegations against him were worse than those against Trump today. That in order to protect the larger principles they believe in which happen to be in every way shape and form against the principles this nation was founded on and diametrically opposed to the doctrines and principles of the LDS Church.  Now they stand to reap the benefits by watching us throw away our principles because of distaste for the character of the only person capable of implementing them in our lifetimes.  And that because, if Hillary appoints judges, we will never be able to roll back the long slow decline of righteous principles or implement them no matter who you put in office after her.

Gadianton Robbers?  Of course. This is how the Left behaves.  Consider for example how the media has gone all in for Hillary and how it's shielding her from a discussion on the issues.

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42 minutes ago, BCSpace said:

 

I would certainly disagree with the "no moral high ground in this election" claim. Voting Trump is THE moral high ground in this election and it is quite high in comparison to the other choices because of the stakes.  Recall how the Democrats circled around Bill Clinton in the 1990's despite the fact that the allegations against him were worse than those against Trump today. That in order to protect the larger principles they believe in which happen to be in every way shape and form against the principles this nation was founded on and diametrically opposed to the doctrines and principles of the LDS Church.  Now they stand to reap the benefits by watching us throw away our principles because of distaste for the character of the only person capable of implementing them in our lifetimes.  And that because, if Hillary appoints judges, we will never be able to roll back the long slow decline of righteous principles or implement them no matter who you put in office after her.

Gadianton Robbers?  Of course. This is how the Left behaves.  Consider for example how the media has gone all in for Hillary and how it's shielding her from a discussion on the issues.

I agree with you.  If it has to be between Hillary and Trump, I choose Trump.  

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7 hours ago, BCSpace said:

 

I would certainly disagree with the "no moral high ground in this election" claim. Voting Trump is THE moral high ground in this election and it is quite high in comparison to the other choices because of the stakes.  Recall how the Democrats circled around Bill Clinton in the 1990's despite the fact that the allegations against him were worse than those against Trump today. That in order to protect the larger principles they believe in which happen to be in every way shape and form against the principles this nation was founded on and diametrically opposed to the doctrines and principles of the LDS Church.  Now they stand to reap the benefits by watching us throw away our principles because of distaste for the character of the only person capable of implementing them in our lifetimes.  And that because, if Hillary appoints judges, we will never be able to roll back the long slow decline of righteous principles or implement them no matter who you put in office after her.

Gadianton Robbers?  Of course. This is how the Left behaves.  Consider for example how the media has gone all in for Hillary and how it's shielding her from a discussion on the issues.

So really we should vote for Hillary to speed up the Second Coming? If we can get it over with I will not have to listen to this hoopla every four years about how this election will determine whether we are doomed yet again.

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18 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I agree with you.  If it has to be between Hillary and Trump, I choose Trump.  

Why am I not surprised?

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3 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Why am I not surprised?

Because there is still a small grain of hope that Trump could be good.
No hope left for Clinton.
But unfortunately we had better get used to saying Madam President, because this is a done deal.  I just hope this really does make things so bad that God is forced to intervene.

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There are a number of countries with much, much, much more significant corruption in their governments.  If God allows those to exist, why would he intervene on what are relatively minor in comparison corruption issues?  

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16 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Because there is still a small grain of hope that Trump could be good.
No hope left for Clinton.
But unfortunately we had better get used to saying Madam President, because this is a done deal.  I just hope this really does make things so bad that God is forced to intervene.

You might be entertained by "Hate Rising" by Jorge Ramos.

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What i've found interesting is the new push to cast doubt on McMullin by some republicans because they are so worried he's going to make it so that Clinton wins.  I even saw where people were passing around an article on Facebook showing where McMullin was being paid by Clinton to help her win (even though it's an obvious fake article).  Kind of crazy.

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4 minutes ago, bluebell said:

What i've found interesting is the new push to cast doubt on McMullin by some republicans because they are so worried he's going to make it so that Clinton wins.  I even saw where people were passing around an article on Facebook showing where McMullin was being paid by Clinton to help her win (even though it's an obvious fake article).  Kind of crazy.

There is no reason to make things up about McMullin. It is a crazy election year. Finding the 'truth' about anything is extremely difficult. The media is not an impartial observer anymore (if they ever were.) I always follow articles to the source and listen to quotes from candidates in context.  I don't think most people take the time but just read the headlines which are usually skewed.  Even the fact checkers are biased and argue over what the facts actually are.  I think it is very important to teach critical thinking skills to your kids so they have the skills to wade through the muck. The fake Benson quote meme that went viral on Facebook was very influential in forming opinions of many of my Mormon friends.  I gave up telling them it wasn't sourced because I was the "bad" person for pointing it out. It's fine to agree with the sentiment but don't attribute it to a prophet. 

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16 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

There is no reason to make things up about McMullin. It is a crazy election year. Finding the 'truth' about anything is extremely difficult. The media is not an impartial observer anymore (if they ever were.) I always follow articles to the source and listen to quotes from candidates in context.  I don't think most people take the time but just read the headlines which are usually skewed.  Even the fact checkers are biased and argue over what the facts actually are.  I think it is very important to teach critical thinking skills to your kids so they have the skills to wade through the muck. The fake Benson quote meme that went viral on Facebook was very influential in forming opinions of many of my Mormon friends.  I gave up telling them it wasn't sourced because I was the "bad" person for pointing it out. It's fine to agree with the sentiment but don't attribute it to a prophet. 

I agree.  We live in the age of the internet meme right now and it's ruining our critical thinking skills.

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9 hours ago, bluebell said:

What i've found interesting is the new push to cast doubt on McMullin by some republicans because they are so worried he's going to make it so that Clinton wins.  I even saw where people were passing around an article on Facebook showing where McMullin was being paid by Clinton to help her win (even though it's an obvious fake article).  Kind of crazy.

This makes sense.  I have a friend who has been Mcmullin pretty strongly the last few weeks. Suddenly she posted for Trump last night saying she didn't want Clinton. And I haven't seen post on Mcmullin in several days.

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Politically I oppose to pretty much everything political McMullen stands for, but I have nothing against his religion.

Some can't help themselves from shooting themselves in the foot. What is Chaffetz going to tell his wife and daughter now?

SEE http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/26/rep-jason-chaffetz-changes-his-mind-again-vote-trump-after-all/92808256/

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6 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

Politically I oppose to pretty much everything political McMullen stands for, but I have nothing against his religion.

Some can't help themselves from shooting themselves in the foot. What is Chaffetz going to tell his wife and daughter now?

SEE http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/10/26/rep-jason-chaffetz-changes-his-mind-again-vote-trump-after-all/92808256/

I thought it was more screwed up that every Republican felt the need to say they have a daughter or daughters and a wife and that was why they found Trump's comments repugnant. I mean, if they were single and didn't have a daughter it would be okay? That seemed a little messed up.

17 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Lou Dobbs called McMullin a "Mormon Mafia Tool."  This election is crazy.  I do question his candidacy and motives but this rhetoric is not going to make you any Mormon friends. http://theweek.com/speedreads/657826/trump-supporter-lou-dobbs-calls-conservative-candidate-evan-mcmullin-mormon-mafia-tool

I find myself hoping the Republicans crash and burn and from the ashes a new party forms around McMullin and others and we can have a center-right party that does not feel the need to pander to the racists, the crazies, the bigots, and the conspiracy nuts Trump and other Republicans cater to.

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33 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I thought it was more screwed up that every Republican felt the need to say they have a daughter or daughters and a wife and that was why they found Trump's comments repugnant. I mean, if they were single and didn't have a daughter it would be okay? That seemed a little messed up.

 

But a lovely quote going around Facebook is worse.  It says that when people ask the person has a daughter or a granddaughter who was a victim of trump would they still be voting for them and one of the answer is "I teach my daughter and will teach my granddaughters to ignore sexist comments and move on..."  Right.  I don't know a single person, who has put that stupid quote on their wall, who would actually say that to their daughter if some guy grabbed her body or said those kinds of things right to their face.  I wouldn't think very highly of them if they did tell their daughter or grand daughter such a thing. 

 

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17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I thought it was more screwed up that every Republican felt the need to say they have a daughter or daughters and a wife and that was why they found Trump's comments repugnant. I mean, if they were single and didn't have a daughter it would be okay? That seemed a little messed up.

I find myself hoping the Republicans crash and burn and from the ashes a new party forms around McMullin and others and we can have a center-right party that does not feel the need to pander to the racists, the crazies, the bigots, and the conspiracy nuts Trump and other Republicans cater to.

No, but the hypocrisy makes it that much worse.

It does need to crash and burn. I thought the Romney defeat was to bring a much needed reexamination of Republican appeal to woman and other minority groups. However they doubled, and tripled down again with Trump/Pence.

Edited by thesometimesaint

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