Allegedly secret LDS Church documents leaked

[Duncan]

Just now, Calm said:

Assuming this is accurate.  Has he revealed his identity to at least those who are going through the docs removing inappropriate personal information, etc?

Can reddit be sued or charged, btw, if personal information is allowed to stand or got out already?

if it was shown that the person was harmed in any way by the information provided, otherwise there wouldn't be much of a case

[Jeanne]

Well..I don't know the process or what the church, the law would do.  It was just a presumed thought..  He mentioned it himself.."sue me".  It was just a general comment and opinion.  He is mad.  He has lost his family, friends and his job.  When things settle down, I think he will have an "ah hah" moment and will probably accept whatever is coming to him.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Jeanne said:

  In another document one will note books purchased from Deseret Book.  One of them is a LeGrande Richards book.  It is purchased for the Temple librairies??  In any case, They buy these and then it takes tithe money and makes it for profit money...

They buy tons of books for Institute libraries for the students' personal studies, including ones that are not bought from DB.  Each fall when I worked at a church store, the local institute director or secretary would come in with a list and walk out with several hundred dollars worth of texts.  I thought it was great they were exposing young members to works of people they may not have been able to read anywhere else due to not being able to afford it and not being in any local public library, which was usually stashed with a book of mormon or two, one or two common devotional books and a dozen or so anti books in the various libraries I have seen in the US and Canada (Utahn libraries being the exception, of course).

Temple workers or even visitors have free time now and again and watching TV is out.  Having a good book available for personal study or just to pass the time seems a useful choice for church funds imo.

The amount of profit from books bought for the temples or even the Institute is not going to be that much after expenses.  Probably not even much more than covering the salary of the person assigned to purchase them and the people doing the paperwork for the use of funds and then whoever is in charge of keeping track of the books and their care and feeding.  It is an investment.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Calm

[Jeanne]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Assuming this is accurate.  Has he revealed his identity to at least those who are going through the docs removing inappropriate personal information, etc?

Can reddit be sued or charged, btw, if personal information is allowed to stand or got out already?

Right now, a reddit mod and site runner is going through everything and making sure that docs are legit (I am told that one of them is in legal field)  They will put things together into one place..with access.  During this time, the site may be down.  They are being careful.  I don't know all the legalities but it seems that they would know who he really is.  I repeat that I don't this for sure.  They are being cautious. They did say they would get rid of those things that are not legal..names, etc. 

[Jeanne]

 

I don't discount and agree with what you say.  Do they buy books for Temples?  Anyway, no biggy.  Deseret Books needs to make a profit.  LeGrande Richards wanted his books sold for $1  back in the day so everybody could get one.  It was mentioned that these books were for a libraries in the Temple.  Now tithes are for Temple buildings...and what they thought wise was to have Deseret Books make a small profit and then make another profit by buying books with tithes for profit..  it is just basic business...your tithe dollars at work.

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Because they are not tourists???  Would they get in any kind of trouble if government officials find their stay is 2 years? 

My son was put on a minister's visa by Canadian officials so that he could come up with us when his dad got a new job and he had to start before the work visa or residents' visa or whatever that dang visa was came through.  He was 8 at the time.  We teased him about being the youngest missionary and how this meant he had to go door to door tracking. etc.

Then we found out a few years later that the kids needed to be on student visas...for kindergarten and grade 8 (no one had told us, we thought their dad's visa covered them like it covered me, the secretaries just assumed we had them and I only noticed when I got a hold of some documentation in the school office for some reason that "student visa" was asked about...much easier to get those though for kids then the adult stuff we had to jump through).

I suspect the Church is very aware of how the Malaysian government will react and works with the officials to ensure missionary safety.  There are plenty of missionaries sent to stateside missions while they wait for visa clearance; if needed, why wouldn't they do the same here?  The Church has a significant history of ensuring the governments are happy so that they can do as much as they can for church members and missionary work.  The recent and older history with Russia demonstrates this.

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

My son was put on a minister's visa by Canadian officials so that he could come up with us when his dad got a new job and he had to start before the work visa or residents' visa or whatever that dang visa was came through.  He was 8 at the time.  We teased him about being the youngest missionary and how this meant he had to go door to door tracking. etc.

Then we found out a few years later that the kids needed to be on student visas...for kindergarten and grade 8 (no one had told us, we thought their dad's visa covered them like it covered me, the secretaries just assumed we had them and I only noticed when I got a hold of some documentation in the school office for some reason that "student visa" was asked about...much easier to get those though for kids then the adult stuff we had to jump through).

I suspect the Church is very aware of how the Malaysian government will react and works with the officials to ensure missionary safety.  There are plenty of missionaries sent to stateside missions while they wait for visa clearance; if needed, why wouldn't they do the same here?  The Church has a significant history of ensuring the governments are happy so that they can do as much as they can for church members and missionary work.  The recent and older history with Russia demonstrates this.

I am happy to hear this.  Was concerned a little.  I am sure the church does all they can to enable missionaries to and from other countries with safety.  My real concern was it was called a short cut..and I worry about short cuts..even if it is easier. So glad that you were able to get through all the hoopla your family had to go through!  Hey...I haven't been anywhere and don't even have passport.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Jeanne

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Right now, a reddit mod and site runner is going through everything and making sure that docs are legit (I am told that one of them is in legal field)  They will put things together into one place..with access.  During this time, the site may be down.  They are being careful.  I don't know all the legalities but it seems that they would know who he really is.  I repeat that I don't this for sure.  They are being cautious. They did say they would get rid of those things that are not legal..names, etc. 

Thanks for the info

[ALarson]

50 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have been trying to follow this, but am probably a bit confused by when I read it (after I took my sleep aid) and the fact I read some spoofs of it at the same time (some were pretty funny).

He said he released them in order to get contributions as he couldn't get a job, right? and that was why he was saving the best for last?  Did I get that right or was he just releasing them and then asking for money on the side?

I'm not really sure.  He sounds pretty desperate and seems to blame the church for this.  Here's part of what he wrote:

Quote

So, I want to say a couple of things.
First, I timed this perfectly because the Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve are going to meet this morning.
Second, your lies and teachings hurt me and my family. I no longer am part of my family because of your lies and legacy of swindling.

Then he rambles on and finally closes with:

Quote

the church destroyed my life. can you please donate via bitcoin? i cannot even eat lunch today. this is horrible for me to say but it is indeed true.

I thought he had worked for the church, but now some are saying that he hacked their system.  

Someone else posted just a bit ago that they are now helping him:

Quote

I have been in constant contact since yesterday and I am making this post with his permission.

For right now he is only going to make about 10 more posts of documents.

The number of files he has is in the 1000s and he does not even know what everything contains.

I am in the process of setting up a secure document exchange and me and a trusted associate are going to comb through it all this weekend.

Any document that is even remotely noteworthy will be cataloged and aggregated in one central location. Of course, the juiciest parts will be highlighted for everyone's benefit.

So, if this is the truth, there are thousands of documents that they plan on posting after the weekend.

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Deseret Books needs to make a profit.  LeGrande Richards wanted his books sold for $1  back in the day so everybody could get one.  It was mentioned that these books were for a libraries in the Temple.  Now tithes are for Temple buildings...and what they thought wise was to have Deseret Books make a small profit and then make another profit by buying books with tithes for profit..  it is just basic business...your tithe dollars at work.

And I am saying they are likely losing money from what I saw of profit margins associated with books once one takes into account all the salaries that go into the process, salaries of people who are on the lower rung of the church hierarchy like the secretaries who act as part time librarians and custodians.  I don't have the least bit of problem having my tithing money going to pay for jobs for these people.  I wish the Church had chapel custodians, but understand that choices need to be made and only so much can go to the pocket of working people and much needs to go to the upkeep of the facilities, publishing of manuals and other work that holds the Church together and gets out info to church members worldwide.  Better to sell books to people that aren't paid by the Church or to groups that don't send their expenses to SLC if they want to make a real profit.  Plus making books available through church libraries means less books are being bought by church patrons as they can borrow them without paying.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Calm

[ALarson]

27 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Right now, a reddit mod and site runner is going through everything and making sure that docs are legit (I am told that one of them is in legal field)  They will put things together into one place..with access.  During this time, the site may be down.  They are being careful.  I don't know all the legalities but it seems that they would know who he really is.  I repeat that I don't this for sure.  They are being cautious. They did say they would get rid of those things that are not legal..names, etc. 

All the docs are still there for anyone to click on and read, they just aren't going to add many more until after the weekend (if I understand correctly).  Of course, they may take the ones down that have been posted at any time too.  

I've only looked at a few, but they seem legit (other than the CIA one which is still puzzling even with the explanation that was provided).

.

Edited September 23, 2016 by ALarson

[Gray]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

Assuming this is accurate.  Has he revealed his identity to at least those who are going through the docs removing inappropriate personal information, etc?

Can reddit be sued or charged, btw, if personal information is allowed to stand or got out already?

Not sure. Reddit is kind of the wild west in some ways. Pretty sure people were posting those Snowden leaks there too. 

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I am happy to hear this.  Was concerned a little.  I am sure the church does all they can to enable missionaries to and from other countries with safety.  My real concern was it was called a short cut..and I worry about short cuts..even if it is easier. So glad that you were able to get through all the hoopla your family had to go through!  Hey...I haven't been anywhere and don't even have passport.

We ran into problems with visas in Russia once, we were supposed to be there for six weeks, but the visa company had only applied for two and then we couldn't read it even to guess what it meant being in Cyrillic.  When we got to customs to depart, the guard didn't even know English or refused to speak with us and we got motioned over to the wall to stand until a flight attendant with Lufthansa came over and translated for us about 20 minutes later.  Then we had to wait two hours until the official came in who made those kinds of decisions...the flight attendant helped us out there as well.  He stated we would have to wait until we had new visas issued with where we had been for the past four weeks being checked out, etc. etc.  This would cost, especially if we decided to go the expedited route that would allow us to leave immediately (they were holding the plane, but it had to go in the next ten minutes).  Yeah, like they could really do all the checking in five minutes that he said was needed.  We paid the bribe...uh, fee...and got on the plane among people complaining about having to sit for so long.  And practically kissed the ground when we arrived in Europe on our stopover.  

Yeah, I suspect the Church has specialists in every country who knows exactly what is allowed and what isn't and keeps up on all the changes, though on occasion there may be a missionary who gets hit by some corrupt official trying to make an extra buck or someone who hates the Church and wants to make it difficult for it (seen it happen with rental property for a meetinghouse, not visas).

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I'm not really sure.  He sounds pretty desperate and seems to blame the church for this.  Here's part of what he wrote:

Then he rambles on and finally closes with:

I thought he had worked for the church, but now some are saying that he hacked their system.  

Someone else posted just a bit ago that they are now helping him:

So, if this is the truth, there are thousands of documents that they plan on posting after the weekend.

How sad that so many think this is appropriate and moral to do, steal someone's property and expose it even if it is completely harmless.  I can see doing it for stuff that showed obvious wrongdoing (still illegal, but if it saved someone from harm, there is an argument for being moral), but otherwise it is just being malicious and petty.

[Jeanne]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

We ran into problems with visas in Russia once, we were supposed to be there for six weeks, but the visa company had only applied for two and then we couldn't read it even to guess what it meant being in Cyrillic.  When we got to customs to depart, the guard didn't even know English or refused to speak with us and we got motioned over to the wall to stand until a flight attendant with Lufthansa came over and translated for us about 20 minutes later.  Then we had to wait two hours until the official came in who made those kinds of decisions...the flight attendant helped us out there as well.  He stated we would have to wait until we had new visas issued with where we had been for the past four weeks being checked out, etc. etc.  This would cost, especially if we decided to go the expedited route that would allow us to leave immediately (they were holding the plane, but it had to go in the next ten minutes).  Yeah, like they could really do all the checking in five minutes that he said was needed.  We paid the bribe...uh, fee...and got on the plane among people complaining about having to sit for so long.  And practically kissed the ground when we arrived in Europe on our stopover.  

Yeah, I suspect the Church has specialists in every country who knows exactly what is allowed and what isn't and keeps up on all the changes, though on occasion there may be a missionary who gets hit by some corrupt official trying to make an extra buck or someone who hates the Church and wants to make it difficult for it (seen it happen with rental property for a meetinghouse, not visas).

For all the places, missionaries and different governments, I sure wouldn't want their job..to take care of all of this would be  real headache..not easy!!  Not to mention the languages!

[Jeanne]

11 minutes ago, ALarson said:

All the docs are still there for anyone to click on and read, they just aren't going to add many more until after the weekend (if I understand correctly).  Of course, they may take the ones down that have been posted at any time too.  

I've only looked at a few, but they seem legit (other than the CIA one which is still puzzling even with the explanation that was provided).

.

Last I looked, I thought they had already condensed a few documents.  My laptop hates that site.  It keeps stopping on me..

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, ALarson said:

All the docs are still there for anyone to click on and read, they just aren't going to add many more until after the weekend (if I understand correctly).  Of course, they may take the ones down that have been posted at any time too.  

I've only looked at a few, but they seem legit (other than the CIA one which is still puzzling even with the explanation that was provided).

.

Did the CIA one have any crossed out writing?  I am thinking the one I saw was the spoof and it may be that it wasn't by him and by someone else (I assumed it was his because of the comments on the exemormon reddit about it matched the spoof well enough).  If so, I take back my claims about his humor.

[ALarson]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

How sad that so many think this is appropriate and moral to do, steal someone's property and expose it even if it is completely harmless.  I can see doing it for stuff that showed obvious wrongdoing (still illegal, but if it saved someone from harm, there is an argument for being moral), but otherwise it is just being malicious and petty.

He is definitely out for revenge, IMO.  If he was an employee of the church, I'd imagine they would have identified him by now and stopped him (wouldn't they have?).  Very strange to see someone having access to this many documents (some that are classified or confidential, etc.).  What employee would have all of these?  I'm leaning more towards someone who has hacked into the church's records, but I just really don't know.  

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, ALarson said:

He is definitely out for revenge, IMO.  If he was an employee of the church, I'd imagine they would have identified him by now and stopped him (wouldn't they have?).  Very strange to see someone having access to this many documents (some that are classified or confidential, etc.).  What employee would have all of these?  I'm leaning more towards someone who has hacked into the church's records, but I just really don't know.  

A custodian that had access to a variety of offices and was secretly a wiz at computers (I have seen this scenario at least a dozen times on TV so it must happen in real life).

[ALarson]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

A custodian that had access to a variety of offices and was secretly a wiz at computers (I have seen this scenario at least a dozen times on TV so it must happen in real life).

Ha!  Good detective work  

And, you could be right!

[JulieM]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

This is how they told us it happened.  I don't have any reason to believe they lied about it.

I didn't say you were lied to.  Both could be true.

[The Nehor]

What an incredibly banal and pathetic act of retribution. The policy manual and random memos? Really? Either this guy was at the bottom of the totem pole and didn't have access to anything interesting or is just blind to what is important.

[JulieM]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

What an incredibly banal and pathetic act of retribution. The policy manual and random memos? Really? Either this guy was at the bottom of the totem pole and didn't have access to anything interesting or is just blind to what is important.

You must not have really looked at what's been leaked. There is much more than just a policy manual and random memos.  I'm not saying it's anything shocking, but it's a lot more than what your simple dismissal implies.

Edited September 23, 2016 by JulieM

[The Nehor]

Just now, JulieM said:

You must not have really looked at what's been leaked. There is much more than just a policy manual and random memos.  I'm not saying it's anything shocking, but it's a lot more than what your simple dismissal implies.

I have been digging through some of them with the most hopeful titles and have found nothing even remotely interesting. I have enough policy and budget documents I have to read at work to care much about these.

[JLHPROF]

4 minutes ago, JulieM said:

You must not have really looked at what's been leaked. There is much more than just a policy manual and random memos.  I'm not saying it's anything shocking, but it's a lot more than what your simple dismissal implies.

There is nothing particularly interesting or shocking.  I mean there's a standard issue HR disciplinary action document like at every place I've ever worked only with a scripture included.
Most "shocking" thing there is the garment catalog.