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Doctrine 612

Gordon b hinkley Manuel

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Very happy that we are studying this prophet next year, wonder if they will do a monsoon one if he is still living?

Edited by Nemesis
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Will this get us through all the prophets?  Aside from Monson? 

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I wonder what the next series of lesson would be? 

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7 minutes ago, Gray said:

I wonder what the next series of lesson would be? 

That's what I'm thinking.  I haven't been the biggest fan of these.  I know, that's probably blasphemous sounding to some. 

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45 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

That's what I'm thinking.  I haven't been the biggest fan of these.  I know, that's probably blasphemous sounding to some. 

It all depends on the instructor.  

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57 minutes ago, Gray said:

I wonder what the next series of lesson would be? 

I expect the next series of lessons will be exactly what last year's series of lessons were, and the year before that, and so on back several decades.

The point is not to learn anything new.

The point is to have the same correlated curricula taught. The manuals may change, but the lessons remain the same.

And the lessons are the same as in the Gospel Principles manual for new members.

That is because the point is not to grow in one's understanding of the gospel, or to really learn what different Church leaders may have taught.

The goal is to make sure that every Church leader is selectively quoted to give the impression that what is taught today is what has always been taught.

Even when it isn't.

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1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

That's what I'm thinking.  I haven't been the biggest fan of these.  I know, that's probably blasphemous sounding to some. 

Seriously...don't you think that Mrs. Hinckley would be more interesting??  I would thank that classes would be stimulated by learning new things about new people.

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22 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

I expect the next series of lessons will be exactly what last year's series of lessons were, and the year before that, and so on back several decades.

The point is not to learn anything new.

The point is to have the same correlated curricula taught. The manuals may change, but the lessons remain the same.

And the lessons are the same as in the Gospel Principles manual for new members.

That is because the point is not to grow in one's understanding of the gospel, or to really learn what different Church leaders may have taught.

The goal is to make sure that every Church leader is selectively quoted to give the impression that what is taught today is what has always been taught.

Even when it isn't.

I see you are a fan of the correlated curriculum....hehe.

I understand the church's desire not to stray from the revelations, nor to allow in strange teachings, but those same revelations speak of allowing the brethren to speak on each topic. While I think the idea of teaching the same subjects in all the different wards each week is good, it seems to me the discouragement of any ideas other than those in the lesson promotes a certain kind of parrot-like teaching in which learning can become a memorization process with the ability to regurgitate it being the prize. This can limit the progress of revelation to the membership IMHO. I think this stems from the general idea that only the President can receive revelation for the church. Thus any new ideas are viewed with a certain alarmism. I don't know if there is a correct balance between teaching the existing revelations and recognizing perhaps new things coming to pass or being revealed, but I think this may be an important dialogue for the church to have. I would like to know if any others share this concern or have any thoughts on the matter. After thinking on it for awhile, I don't know that I have arrived at an appropriate solution which addresses both sides. However, I believe if a principle or revelation is true, others should be able to receive confirmation of it. This of course takes time, and is probably not something that can be expected in a classroom setting. On the other hand flashes of insight or intuition can happen quickly.

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1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

That's what I'm thinking.  I haven't been the biggest fan of these.  I know, that's probably blasphemous sounding to some. 

This (I gave you a rep point). I miss the old priesthood manuals. 

We've done these prophet ones since 1997 (with an interlude with Gospel Principles), and it's pretty much the same quotes for pretty much the same topics. 

They could go back to the old manuals and not even have curriculum make something new! :)

Unfortunately, I've heard that the Church is piloting "Come Follow Me" for adults. That will make us lust for the flesh pots of the prophet manuals . . . :)

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7 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

I see you are a fan of the correlated curriculum....hehe.

I understand the church's desire not to stray from the revelations, nor to allow in strange teachings, but those same revelations speak of allowing the brethren to speak on each topic. While I think the idea of teaching the same subjects in all the different wards each week is good, it seems to me the discouragement of any ideas other than those in the lesson promotes a certain kind of parrot-like teaching in which learning can become a memorization process with the ability to regurgitate it being the prize. This can limit the progress of revelation to the membership IMHO. I think this stems from the general idea that only the President can receive revelation for the church. Thus any new ideas are viewed with a certain alarmism. I don't know if there is a correct balance between teaching the existing revelations and recognizing perhaps new things coming to pass or being revealed, but I think this may be an important dialogue for the church to have. I would like to know if any others share this concern or have any thoughts on the matter. After thinking on it for awhile, I don't know that I have arrived at an appropriate solution which addresses both sides. However, I believe if a principle or revelation is true, others should be able to receive confirmation of it. This of course takes time, and is probably not something that can be expected in a classroom setting. On the other hand flashes of insight or intuition can happen quickly.

Truer words were never spoken, Rev!

I would only add that in the LDS Church, we spend 95% of the time talking about 5% of the scriptures.  ;)

 

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46 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Seriously...don't you think that Mrs. Hinckley would be more interesting??  I would thank that classes would be stimulated by learning new things about new people.

They would be.  Unfortunately, the point is not to learn new things at all. 

The point is to learn the same old correlated Primary pabulum regardless of the person being quoted.

Somebody once quipped about the Lorenzo Snow Manual  that it seemed the editors decided to take all the most boring things Lorenzo Snow ever said and put them in one manual.

That is true of each manual.

And will be till the crack of doom.

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4 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said:

Very happy that we are studying this prophet next year, wonder if they will do a monsoon one if he is still living?

I look forward to it, I love Presidet Hinkley very much. I would be content to just listen to his conference talks during Priesthood. He had a wit that made a great teacher. 

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1 minute ago, Pa Pa said:

I look forward to it, I love Presidet Hinkley very much. I would be content to just listen to his conference talks during Priesthood. He had a wit that made a great teacher. 

Me too

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1 hour ago, consiglieri said:

I expect the next series of lessons will be exactly what last year's series of lessons were, and the year before that, and so on back several decades.

The point is not to learn anything new.

The point is to have the same correlated curricula taught. The manuals may change, but the lessons remain the same.

And the lessons are the same as in the Gospel Principles manual for new members.

That is because the point is not to grow in one's understanding of the gospel, or to really learn what different Church leaders may have taught.

The goal is to make sure that every Church leader is selectively quoted to give the impression that what is taught today is what has always been taught.

Even when it isn't.

I recently attended a new teacher training class (that's not what it's called but i don't remember the exact name-they are supposed to happen once a month) and the message our instructor brought back to us from the regional meeting he attended where this was introduced was that the church wants to completely change the focus of learning in the church.

Instead of the focus of worship and conversion happening at church, they want it to happen in the home.  The home is to become the central place of learning about the gospel and becoming converted.  Rather than the home supporting what is taught at church and the conversion process as it happens by going to church, they want the church to support what is taught at home and the conversion process as it happens in the family.  

We didn't get into how that change is suppose to happen, but it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I recently attended a new teacher training class (that's not what it's called but i don't remember the exact name-they are supposed to happen once a month) and the message our instructor brought back to us from the regional meeting he attended where this was introduced was that the church wants to completely change the focus of learning in the church.

Instead of the focus of worship and conversion happening at church, they want it to happen in the home.  The home is to become the central place of learning about the gospel and becoming converted.  Rather than the home supporting what is taught at church and the conversion process as it happens by going to church, they want the church to support what is taught at home and the conversion process as it happens in the family.  

We didn't get into how that change is suppose to happen, but it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

Sounds good, but I think this method will take very dedicated parents. Speaking for my family, I believe we have done this somewhat over the years. I make a point of stopping while scripture reading with my family, and asking them questions about what we are reading. I will point out what other sects say about specific scriptures, and what our church teaches, and any personal thoughts I have about the scripture giving my wife the opportunity to do the same, and my children as well. Thus, I have a feel for where my children stand on the gospel, and they know where I stand on most issues. However, I will also say that sometimes my kids begrudge my interruptions, and sometimes they have expressed they think I am trying to be a know-it-all. So it is an opportunity for everyone to grow.

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Pres. Hinckley's manual is online now

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I really look forward to after the Manuals to see what will happen next, my wife says that the church will just start the manuals over in a way chooseing by revelation which prophet we should study next, since the church put so much time and money into this.

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13 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Sounds good, but I think this method will take very dedicated parents. Speaking for my family, I believe we have done this somewhat over the years. I make a point of stopping while scripture reading with my family, and asking them questions about what we are reading. I will point out what other sects say about specific scriptures, and what our church teaches, and any personal thoughts I have about the scripture giving my wife the opportunity to do the same, and my children as well. Thus, I have a feel for where my children stand on the gospel, and they know where I stand on most issues. However, I will also say that sometimes my kids begrudge my interruptions, and sometimes they have expressed they think I am trying to be a know-it-all. So it is an opportunity for everyone to grow.

I agree that church members do seem to struggle with new concepts that require dedication and change.  We tend to cave to a form of instinctual drift where we start out with good intentions but quickly fall back to old patterns of behavior.

From my perspective, the challenge will be for the church to show specific steps for parents to take on how to change the worship focus.  Throwing out directions like read the scriptures, say prayers, have family home evening isn't going to cut it.  Neither is letting the parents figure it out on their own.  That's what we've been doing and more of the same isn't going to change anything.

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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I agree that church members do seem to struggle with new concepts that require dedication and change.  We tend to cave to a form of instinctual drift where we start out with good intentions but quickly fall back to old patterns of behavior.

From my perspective, the challenge will be for the church to show specific steps for parents to take on how to change the worship focus.  Throwing out directions like read the scriptures, say prayers, have family home evening isn't going to cut it.  Neither is letting the parents figure it out on their own.  That's what we've been doing and more of the same isn't going to change anything.

Creating a commentary on the scriptures might help. It could raise questions to "ponderize" with your family. It could suggest Hebrew roots of OT scripture words. Point out meanings of various Old English words. What church leaders have written about various passages, etc. It could actually be interactive, and put on LDS.org and contain links to Ensign articles, Joseph Smith papers, new church videos on various passages, etc which should help with visual learning. It could also have an audio reader option.

I think this would help keep the interest of children. When a passage they have a question about is reached, they can look for a link to a commentary page with further links to all these things. Allowing the children to search the links will give them a feeling of participation and discovery in the process. It might go so far as to provide an interlinear Hebrew version and other interlinear language versions. This might also be a great help in the mission field.

The same type of thing could be done with a family home evening manual online arranged in subjects which has links to scriptures, videos, commentary pages, etc. (I realize there are some limited links to scriptures already). Perhaps families could submit videos of their own experiences and testimonies, which subject to approval, might be able to get linked to. Maybe create something like an LDS Testimonial channel with videos arranged by subject?

Rather than trying to "change" the worship focus, just creating and providing the tools might help to change the focus by creating a place the family is more inclined to go and use.

Edited by RevTestament

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It may have been mentioned or I'm shooting from the hip, but our church needs more scripture study at church. Similar to other faiths focus on what's in scripture. Especially for those that struggle understanding them on their own.

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19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

It may have been mentioned or I'm shooting from the hip, but our church needs more scripture study at church. Similar to other faiths focus on what's in scripture. Especially for those that struggle understanding them on their own.

We do have plenty of scripture study at church. Nearly one third of the meeting time on Sunday, in Gospel Doctrine class, is focusing on what's in scripture. I don't know about all other faiths, but the ones that I have attended feature one or two verses of scripture per sermon, which hardly allows us to know what is included in all the scriptures, only just one very tiny little bit at a time.

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2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Creating a commentary on the scriptures might help. It could raise questions to "ponderize" with your family. It could suggest Hebrew roots of OT scripture words. Point out meanings of various Old English words. What church leaders have written about various passages, etc. It could actually be interactive, and put on LDS.org and contain links to Ensign articles, Joseph Smith papers, new church videos on various passages, etc which should help with visual learning. It could also have an audio reader option.

I think this would help keep the interest of children. When a passage they have a question about is reached, they can look for a link to a commentary page with further links to all these things. Allowing the children to search the links will give them a feeling of participation and discovery in the process. It might go so far as to provide an interlinear Hebrew version and other interlinear language versions. This might also be a great help in the mission field.

The same type of thing could be done with a family home evening manual online arranged in subjects which has links to scriptures, videos, commentary pages, etc. (I realize there are some limited links to scriptures already). Perhaps families could submit videos of their own experiences and testimonies, which subject to approval, might be able to get linked to. Maybe create something like an LDS Testimonial channel with videos arranged by subject?

Rather than trying to "change" the worship focus, just creating and providing the tools might help to change the focus by creating a place the family is more inclined to go and use.

That already been done

app called lds scripture citation index.

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22 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said:

Very happy that we are studying this prophet next year, wonder if they will do a monsoon one if he is still living?

I keep hearing that new material is coming soon, I've heard this for at least 3-4 years now, maybe longer.  Any news on new material for the Priesthood/RS meetings?  

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Looking forward to the new manual. Not sure why you think it's not going to have anything new, there have been great lessons in all the manuals

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