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rockpond

LDS Church welfare, humanitarian efforts avg $40m/yr

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

A substantial portion. That is the point of all the chapels, temples, activities, etc.

I agree that it is "substantial" but we don't know what percentage it is.  And a substantial percentage of church assets are also spent on commercial development that does little or nothing to "keep people out of hell". 

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4 hours ago, rockpond said:

I agree that it is "substantial" but we don't know what percentage it is.  And a substantial percentage of church assets are also spent on commercial development that does little or nothing to "keep people out of hell". 

Was that an attempt at irony or blatant hypocrisy?

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13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Was that an attempt at irony or blatant hypocrisy?

It was neither irony nor hypocrisy. 

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On 7/23/2016 at 1:24 PM, The Nehor said:

Not true, most people who reach the age of accountability are going to hell. Most will admittedly get out. Some of our money goes towards expediting that exit.

That's just pretend hell to scare the rank and file. It's not outer darkness.

"As soon as the coin in the cash box rings, the soul from purgatory's fire springs."

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On 7/23/2016 at 1:28 PM, The Nehor said:

It varies based on the quality of the soul in question.

What about a soul upholstered entirely in velour? 

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1 hour ago, Gray said:

That's just pretend hell to scare the rank and file. It's not outer darkness.

"As soon as the coin in the cash box rings, the soul from purgatory's fire springs."

No, it is not a nice place.

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2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, it is not a nice place.

How many times have you visited? Can't be worse than Detroit. 

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7 minutes ago, Gray said:

How many times have you visited? Can't be worse than Detroit. 

Yes, but Detroit is probably going to be relocated and repurposed as the punishment zone of Outer Darkness.

I only visited once. 1 star, would not visit again.

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1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, but Detroit is probably going to be relocated and repurposed as the punishment zone of Outer Darkness.

Woah, that's a little harsh, isn't it? Who has done anything bad enough to deserve Detroit?

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

I only visited once. 1 star, would not visit again.

1 star, eh? That beats North Dakota. 

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2 minutes ago, Gray said:

Woah, that's a little harsh, isn't it? Who has done anything bad enough to deserve Detroit?

1 star, eh? That beats North Dakota. 

Hitler, that jerk who cut me off this morning, Trump, and the guy who invented slavery.

the stupid website does not let you give zero stars. I tried.

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On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 0:06 PM, rockpond said:

Again, I don't donate to the Red Cross so that isn't relevant.

Where are the LDS Philanthropies financial statements?  Who pays their leadership and overhead?

Perhaps look at the perpetual education fund site. I don't know if it runs the same way,  but I recall it saying that all the money donated goes to helping others get an education and the administration of it is done from funds separately from the church.  It may give more detail. 

On Saturday, July 16, 2016 at 11:46 PM, TheSkepticChristian said:

Probably not, that is why EFY in America is much better. Everything of the church (buildings and activities) is way better in the USA. 

In America some parents cannot afford to pay 200-600 dollars to send their children to EFY, but their Bishop helps them with that. God does bless America. 

There is no Bishop Storehouse in Latin America. When church members need temporal help (like food), our church doesn't give them much. American LDS get much more food.  It's true. An American family of four gets much more than a Latin America family of five. 

Why? i don't know, perhaps because of what the Nehor said " It I think the numbers skew the other way when you go to South America, Africa, and some parts of Asia." 

BD was explaining this,  but perhaps it would help if I shared what I learned from the distribution center in Salt Lake. At one time in the poorest of countries they would donate higher quality  (not high quality, higher than what the people were used to) goods. They found this caused problems in already unstable economies.  After that they liked for ways that would both help the poorest of people and the ecconomy. Like sell DI donated clothes to locals who would sell them to other people, thereby helping them make a living. 

We sometimes hear,  "this is a worldwide church,  not an American one.  Why is everything done in an American way."

It has been interesting to me to see the difference in Arizona chapels verses the Utah ones I am used to.  The first thing I noticed was the huge fan in the ceiling of the chapel.  Then I noticed that many of the meetinghouses have the orange tile roofs instead of asphalt - the tiles last so much longer in this heat. Lots of homes,  including mine,  have all floor tiles instead of carpet and some of the meetinghouses have a lot of tile on the floors . It is so much cooler than carpet. There is a lot rock landscaping instead of so much grass because of the heat and lack of water.

My husband just described to me the meetinghouse in France he attends. He said it is every bit as nice as American ones we are used to, but was built with France in mind - taking less land etc.

The Manhatten temple/meetinghouse keeps in mind where it is placed I understand - expensive land so the temple is on orher floors than a meetinghouse.

A meetinghouse where my ILs served their mission in Vanuatu would not be considered "nice" by American standards. When my husband visited one man excitedly invited him to bring me to stay in his new "guest house" - a grass roof and poles structure. They didn't have running water or electricity.  Now that things have grown there in the church, a new chapel was built near him instead of the room they were renting.  It is cinder block with a tin roof - meant to help the rain water running down it into big containers that the members can also take home and use. The floor is tile because many people travel through the jungle,  down paths and dirt roads, sometimes muddy, to get there. Tile is much easier to clean. It has no AC, but neither did any place my family visited except the hotel. After living in AZ for 2 years and seeing how we have acclimated DH thinks that many of them would get too cold and not use it much. By the way,  one of the members here is one that gets help by being able to sell DI clothes. 

What does all this mean?  That the leaders recognize this is an a world wide church and not an American church so they are doing their best to keep individual locales in mind,  just as the Lord keeps individuals in mind. If you just look at the difference in churches you won't see the whole picture. 

And for that matter, if you look at just the financial numbers you are bound to miss a whole lot of things that go into spending the money where they do. 

Edited by Rain

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22 hours ago, Rain said:

If you just look at the difference in churches you won't see the whole picture.

There is NO stake president's award for seminary students in Latin America, there is not a lot of stuff that American LDS enjoy. 

American chapels are much better,  many chapels in Latin America don't have air conditioners or heaters. Many don't even have a piano. 

Why?  because church funds are mostly regional obviously. 

 

Edited by TheSkepticChristian

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1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

There is NO stake president's award for seminary students in Latin America, there is not a lot of stuff that American LDS enjoy. 

American chapels are much better,  many chapels in Latin America don't have air conditioners or heaters. Many don't even have a piano. 

Why?  because church funds are mostly regional obviously. 

 

Yep, must be regional because with kids going to seminary and graduating and working with many of 100s of other kids in Utah and Arizona I have never heard of the Stake President's award  - and neither has my daughter who loved seminary and just graduated.

And like I said,  if all you look at are the difference in churches you will not get the whole picture. You have to find out WHY there are differences to get the whole picture. Don't get me wrong, sometimes some are treated different than others when they should not be, but having learned, over the years, why many things are done differently from location to location I won't automatically assume it is a bad reason. 

The piano thing? Before my inlaws went to Vanuatu the branch didn't have a piano either. One of the specific things my MIL was called to was to bring some good keyboards with her and then teach the people there how to play piano. The people could transport the keyboards back and forth from home to church so they could practice because no one knew how to play before she came. It seems like that didn't go over as well as hoped, though I can't remember why.

Besides knowing about the lessons I also wonder if shipping and humidity come into play.

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We have never heard of the SP's Award and we live in LDS saturated small town Utah Valley.

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4 hours ago, Rain said:

Yep, must be regional because with kids going to seminary and graduating and working with many of 100s of other kids in Utah and Arizona I have never heard of the Stake President's award  - and neither has my daughter who loved seminary and just graduated.

And like I said,  if all you look at are the difference in churches you will not get the whole picture. You have to find out WHY there are differences to get the whole picture. Don't get me wrong, sometimes some are treated different than others when they should not be, but having learned, over the years, why many things are done differently from location to location I won't automatically assume it is a bad reason. 

The piano thing? Before my inlaws went to Vanuatu the branch didn't have a piano either. One of the specific things my MIL was called to was to bring some good keyboards with her and then teach the people there how to play piano. The people could transport the keyboards back and forth from home to church so they could practice because no one knew how to play before she came. It seems like that didn't go over as well as hoped, though I can't remember why.

Besides knowing about the lessons I also wonder if shipping and humidity come into play.

My husband says carpet isn't used in humid areas, even the finest hotels lack it.  Pianos...he is thinking humidity also counts given it pulls them out of tune quickly.  Keyboards make more sense, especially as they come with hymns  preloaded if no one knows how to play.

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