LDS Church welfare, humanitarian efforts avg $40m/yr

[rockpond]

From yesterday's Deseret News:

Quote

Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said that each year The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints spends about $40 million on welfare, humanitarian and other LDS Church-sponsored projects around the world and has done so for more than 30 years.

If that number is correct and if we assume that the Church's annual income is around $6 billion, than the Church's welfare and humanitarian aid averages about 0.7% of its annual income.  Or, looking at it another way, it is averaging $2.67 per member in welfare and aid efforts.

[Mystery Meat]

11 minutes ago, rockpond said:

From yesterday's Deseret News:

If that number is correct and if we assume that the Church's annual income is around $6 billion, than the Church's welfare and humanitarian aid averages about 0.7% of its annual income.  Or, looking at it another way, it is averaging $2.67 per member in welfare and aid efforts.

Source for the $6 billion figure?

[rockpond]

12 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Source for the $6 billion figure?

I don't have one which is why I cited it as an assumption.  The $6B-$7B number seems to be the one that is most commonly assumed.  I was trying to put the figures into context but I welcome more accurate numbers if someone has them.

[JAHS]

The question is, where does that 40 million come from? Is that funded only by humanitarian aid donations from church members or does it also come from investments the church has had over the decades or even from tithing?

[Tacenda]

9 minutes ago, JAHS said:

The question is, where does that 40 million come from? Is that funded only by humanitarian aid donations from church members or does it also come from investments the church has had over the decades or even from tithing?

The church usually gives the credit to members of the church when I've listened or read news releases or general conferences.

Bill Reel just posted the below on FB, pretty stark contrast to our spending per our earnings, we can do better. Or I guess I just need to speak for myself. Of course I've given plenty to the church in the past, especially when told by my husband that we don't need to donate to some charity here and there, because the church is doing that with our tithing...I don't think so...not so much anyway.

 "In 2014, the Seventh-Day Adventists took in $2.3 billion in tithing and provided $291.5 million in humanitarian aid, including rendering aid in more than 130 countries."

[Mystery Meat]

I am sure this thread will be fascinating.

[rockpond]

7 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

I am sure this thread will be fascinating.

I assume you, like Oaks, are proud of these contributions being made by the Church.  $40 million is a lot of money!

[thesometimesaint]

I'm just glad I was able to just some of the $40M.

[Gray]

I'm grateful they've given out that much, but frankly we can do a lot better than this. Many churches do. In fact, many for-profit businesses do. 

[bluebell]

When you read the whole article and see everything that the church does each year, all of the projects they are involved in and all of the disasters they respond to and provide welfare assistance too, it's amazing that they do it all on about 40 mil a year!   They must have a really good system and be incredibly organized.

As for the 6-7 billion in income, it seems like it would be impossible to suggest whether or not the church should be spending more without knowing what their outgoing money is.  I know that it has been said in the past that if the membership stopped paying tithing the church could only maintain itself for about 6 months.  If that's true, then the church does not have a lot of cash laying around and it's expenses must be huge.

[rockpond]

20 minutes ago, bluebell said:

When you read the whole article and see everything that the church does each year, all of the projects they are involved in and all of the disasters they respond to and provide welfare assistance too, it's amazing that they do it all on about 40 mil a year!   They must have a really good system and be incredibly organized.

As for the 6-7 billion in income, it seems like it would be impossible to suggest whether or not the church should be spending more without knowing what their outgoing money is.  I know that it has been said in the past that if the membership stopped paying tithing the church could only maintain itself for about 6 months.  If that's true, then the church does not have a lot of cash laying around and it's expenses must be huge.

Yes, it is difficult to really have a grasp of how much that $40m is without being privy to some of their basic financial statements.

On the other hand, given the Church's current development activities (1600 Vine in Philadelphia, 111 Main St in SLC, the Riverton development) it is tough to imagine that they don't have a lot of cash.

[Buckeye]

I think the $6-7 bn number came from the Time article "Mormons Inc" that ran a while ago. 

I'd also be interested to know whether the $40m is direct from SLC or includes local charity drives as well. In my stake we've participate in lots of food drives and other support for local charities. Just knowing the local members, I believe that if the full records were opened the story would look a lot better. But that's not my call. In general, I think that if all records were opened our church would come off looking better than most organizations, but there still would be some skeletons and I guess the membership can't be trusted to deal with any skeletons at the moment.

[rockpond]

4 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

I think the $6-7 bn number came from the Time article "Mormons Inc" that ran a while ago. 

I'd also be interested to know whether the $40m is direct from SLC or includes local charity drives as well. In my stake we've participate in lots of food drives and other support for local charities. Just knowing the local members, I believe that if the full records were opened the story would look a lot better. But that's not my call. In general, I think that if all records were opened our church would come off looking better than most organizations, but there still would be some skeletons and I guess the membership can't be trusted to deal with any skeletons at the moment.

I believe that the $40m is just the cash donations.  I don't believe it includes things like local food drives or all the member hours of service.

[bluebell]

31 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Yes, it is difficult to really have a grasp of how much that $40m is without being privy to some of their basic financial statements.

On the other hand, given the Church's current development activities (1600 Vine in Philadelphia, 111 Main St in SLC, the Riverton development) it is tough to imagine that they don't have a lot of cash.

True.

I thought i remember reading somewhere that certain money had to be used a specific way in businesses.  I'm wondering if the corporate part of the church (for lack of a better term) is even able to mix with the religious side, financially speaking?  I know that most businesses have to give a certain percentage of their income to charity in order to get the tax breaks that they need but there are some big rules about how that money is given and where it comes from. 

I honestly have no idea how that all works and it would be SO interesting to be able to understand it better in regards to the church.

[rockpond]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

True.

I thought i remember reading somewhere that certain money had to be used a specific way in businesses.  I'm wondering if the corporate part of the church (for lack of a better term) is even able to mix with the religious side, financially speaking?  I know that most businesses have to give a certain percentage of their income to charity in order to get the tax breaks that they need but there are some big rules about how that money is given and where it comes from. 

I honestly have no idea how that all works and it would be SO interesting to be able to understand it better in regards to the church.

Suburban Land Reserve, Property Reserve, City Creek Reserve (the entities doing the land development) are all owned by the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  So these developments & businesses are owned by the Church.  The Corporation of the President... is the legal entity for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I don't think we know if entities like Suburban Land Reserve and City Creek Reserve are making charitable contributions that are not being counted in Oaks' $40m figure.

[Mystery Meat]

38 minutes ago, bluebell said:

True.

I thought i remember reading somewhere that certain money had to be used a specific way in businesses.  I'm wondering if the corporate part of the church (for lack of a better term) is even able to mix with the religious side, financially speaking?  

Only if it wants to lose the tax exemption.

[rockpond]

3 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Only if it wants to lose the tax exemption.

The Church can, and does, own for-profit ventures.  Those for-profit entities pay taxes.

[Mystery Meat]

42 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Suburban Land Reserve, Property Reserve, City Creek Reserve (the entities doing the land development) are all owned by the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  So these developments & businesses are owned by the Church.  The Corporation of the President... is the legal entity for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I don't think we know if entities like Suburban Land Reserve and City Creek Reserve are making charitable contributions that are not being counted in Oaks' $40m figure.

Lots of misinformation in this post. A simple check on the state's website shows that Property Reserve and City Creek Reserve are non-profit entities. No person or entity can own a non-profit. So no, the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not own them. Do not believe everything you read online from know nothings.

[Mystery Meat]

11 minutes ago, rockpond said:

The Church can, and does, own for-profit ventures.  Those for-profit entities pay taxes.

Not the point.

[rockpond]

13 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Lots of misinformation in this post. A simple check on the state's website shows that Property Reserve and City Creek Reserve are non-profit entities. No person or entity can own a non-profit. So no, the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not own them. Do not believe everything you read online from know nothings.

You are correct, they are listed as non-profit.  My mistake.  I apologize.  I was thinking more of the activities in which they engage:  residential, commercial, and agricultural development (rather than ministry or charity).

But the "Reserve" entities I mentioned are the development arm of the Church.  While they are non-profit, they are owned and controlled by the Corporation of the President along with other entities like Intellectual Reserve (which holds the church's IP, trademarks, copyrights), Bonneville, and Deseret Management (which owns the for-profit entities like Bonneville, DN, DB, Beneficial Insurance, Hawaii Reserves, Temple Square Hospitality, etc).

[rockpond]

23 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Not the point.

I was just trying to clarify WRT to bluebell's question.

[Mystery Meat]

9 minutes ago, rockpond said:

You are correct, they are listed as non-profit.  My mistake.  I apologize.  I was thinking more of the activities in which they engage:  residential, commercial, and agricultural development (rather than ministry or charity).

But the "Reserve" entities I mentioned are the development arm of the Church.  While they are non-profit, they are owned and controlled by the Corporation of the President along with other entities like Intellectual Reserve (which holds the church's IP, trademarks, copyrights), Bonneville, and Deseret Management (which owns the for-profit entities like Bonneville, DN, DB, Beneficial Insurance, Hawaii Reserves, Temple Square Hospitality, etc).

Still not true. Corporation of the President does not control these entities.

[Mystery Meat]

9 minutes ago, rockpond said:

You are correct, they are listed as non-profit.  My mistake.  I apologize.  I was thinking more of the activities in which they engage:  residential, commercial, and agricultural development (rather than ministry or charity).

But the "Reserve" entities I mentioned are the development arm of the Church.  While they are non-profit, they are owned and controlled by the Corporation of the President along with other entities like Intellectual Reserve (which holds the church's IP, trademarks, copyrights), Bonneville, and Deseret Management (which owns the for-profit entities like Bonneville, DN, DB, Beneficial Insurance, Hawaii Reserves, Temple Square Hospitality, etc).

I don't know where you get your information, but it is pretty bad. 

[rockpond]

7 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Still not true. Corporation of the President does not control these entities.

Who does?

[rockpond]

6 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

I don't know where you get your information, but it is pretty bad. 

What is incorrect in that?