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Valentinus

Yay Russia!

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Now Christians, Mormons, and gays can join hands in Russia advocating for civil rights.

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Have you ever been to Russia?  At the time we were there we were told by many Russians who did not know our faith as well as others who did was all that the Russian Orthodox Church cared about was getting the gold back on their domes and the property back from the government (iirc, before the Revolution they owned a 1/4 of the land in Russia and the residents were essentially serfs in many areas).  All the donation drives I saw being done by nuns were for renovations, important indeed, but I would have expected more balance.  It was reported that the vast majority of the humanitarian charity work being done was outside churchs.

The antireligious feelings promoted in the not so distant past by the Russian Orthodox Church in the 90s, for example, wanting to kick all by three faiths out of the country (theirs, Muslims and Buddhists iirc, even other Orthodox churches were not to be allowed) was vicious at times.

I don't understand the desire to restrict freedom of religious thought myself.

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When we were in Russia, most of the orphanages were able to function solely because of outside churches' clothing and money drives, hygienge kits, blankets.  The hospital had a big celebration when they recieved in a outside church donation a brand new medicine for them, children's tylenol.  Massive amounts of medicine and medical devices have been donated through religious fundraisers I know of here in the States and Canada.

I don't doubt that there are other sources of funding, but unless things have dramatically changed, I don't see the Russian Orthodox Church being able to pull up the slack.  Most of those we knew 40 and younger had no interest in the ROC and many Russians depised it because they believed it worked with the government to try and protect its massive wealth without regard to the Russian people and they didn't see much of a change post Soviet Union.

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The groups that were promoting similar laws back in the 90s were the equivalent of extreme nationakist groups similar to neonazis.  It saddens me that this level of national fever has reached this pitch so widely across the community.

I wonder if the numbers of vicious attacks on missionaries and apparent foreign nationals has climbed as well.  There were a couple of young Nigerian young men, students on scholarships from the government to make the country look good who were constantly being follwed by gangs and being assaulted and the police did nothing (I have never heard such racist and vicious relgious remarks as I heard there).

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4 minutes ago, Calm said:

The groups that were promoting similar laws back in the 90s were the equivalent of extreme nationakist groups similar to neonazis.  It saddens me that this level of national fever has reached this pitch so widely across the community.

I wonder if the numbers of vicious attacks on missionaries and apparent foreign nationals has climbed as well.  There were a couple of young Nigerian young men, students on scholarships from the government to make the country look good who were constantly being follwed by gangs and being assaulted and the police did nothing (I have never heard such racist and vicious relgious remarks as I heard there).

This is how it was when I was there as well. A little none secret about Russian government in the US:

The Russian Mafia, Russian Government and Russian Orthodox Church are all one in the same. This law is nothing more than the Russian government protecting its own interests.

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49 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

You are ignorant. This law is abomination. 

Religious dominionism, theocracy and theonomy are abominations.

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3 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Religious dominionism, theocracy and theonomy are abominations.

Which is exactly what this law promotes.

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Calm, I'm well aware of the Orthodox situation. 

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The ROC does not directly influence the Russian government. A friend who has lived there for 13 years has told me as such. It's a common misconception by misguided theorists.

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1 hour ago, Bobbieaware said:

Would you like to see a similar law passed and enforced in the United States?

 

No. We have the First Amendment.  If this law passes, it'll allow citizens to focus on more important things than religion. This isn't going to hurt evangelicals or Mormonism any way.

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27 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Religious dominionism, theocracy and theonomy are abominations.

Will the religious dominionism that will exist in heaven (a divine monarchy under the kingly rule of the almighty God) also be an abomination?

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1 hour ago, Mystery Meat said:

This is how it was when I was there as well. A little none secret about Russian government in the US:

The Russian Mafia, Russian Government and Russian Orthodox Church are all one in the same. This law is nothing more than the Russian government protecting its own interests.

There is a lot of overlap between the Mafia and the government.  A friend of my husband's was assassinated due to him suing the Mayor of Moscow because the Mayor was in league with the Mafia in taking over his hotel.  There are lots of politicians kissing up to RO learders and the reverse and there was corruption being exposed with some leaders pocketing money meant for renovations of churchs and way too much promotion of hatred of others as if they felt that was the only thing that could keep members faithful...or maybe it was just the easiest thing for those who did it to do, but also good men and women in the Church who were trying to serve God and love their fellowmen.

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6 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

No. We have the First Amendment.  If this law passes, it'll allow citizens to focus on more important things than religion. This isn't going to hurt evangelicals or Mormonism any way.

Who's twisting the Russian people's arms to force them to focus on religion when they are not inclined to do so?

Under this proposed law, is a Latter-day Saint permitted to invite non-members to his home to receive the missionary discussions, to the end that those so invited might ultimately join the Church?

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3 hours ago, Bobbieaware said:

Will the religious dominionism that will exist in heaven (a divine monarchy under the kingly rule of the almighty God) also be an abomination?

 

Yes. Which is why I'm not going there.

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Who's twisting the Russian people's arms to force them to focus on religion when they are not inclined to do so?

Under this proposed law, is a Latter-day Saint permitted to invite non-members to his home to receive the missionary discussions, to the end that those so invited might ultimately join the Church?

No, and there's nothing wrong with that.

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4 hours ago, Valentinus said:

This a good measure to counter outside nonsense. 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gleanings/2016/june/no-evangelizing-outside-of-church-russia-proposes.html

Here's to hoping this law passes!

Nice to know you are a fan of totalitarianism. Are you really such a wimp that you want to ban someone inviting you to a church function instead of just saying no?

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The law is meant to keep religion personally private and in the churches. It helps people not to have to waste their time. No one on the street needs to be told about Jesus or whatnot. You believe Mormonism? Awesome! But no one wants to know how it changed your life or anything else that is irrelevant to them. 

I'm not a wimp. I'll gladly tell religious people that I'm not buying salvation or drinking their brand of kool-aid.

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3 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

The law is meant to keep religion personally private and in the churches. It helps people not to have to waste their time. No one on the street needs to be told about Jesus or whatnot. You believe Mormonism? Awesome! But no one wants to know how it changed your life or anything else that is irrelevant to them. 

I'm not a wimp. I'll gladly tell religious people that I'm not buying salvation or drinking their brand of kool-aid.

Would you also support a ban on pornography on the basis that it wastes time? How about reading books for fun?

And actually I have found many people interested in how it changed my life but you are too self-absorbed to realize the dangers of allowing this kind of government control. People like you are how totalitarian governments get into power. Admittedly your rationalization for totalitarianism is even weak by totalitarian standards. What I am saying is that if you honestly believe this is a good idea that you are then also a terrible person and a blight on society.

Edited by The Nehor

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You're right, Nehor. I actually don't support this. I do honestly believe that some people need religion to change their life for the better and I will support them in that path. Legislating against religion and legislating in favor of theocratic principles are equally dangerous. 

I'll admit guilt of trolling. See! I can be reasonable.

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28 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

The law is meant to keep religion personally private and in the churches.

except for Russian Orthodox, of course.

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26 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

You're right, Nehor. I actually don't support this. I do honestly believe that some people need religion to change their life for the better and I will support them in that path.

How kind and condescending. I just wish all of us could change our lives for the better like you have without such an unnecessary crutch.

27 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Legislating against religion and legislating in favor of theocratic principles are equally dangerous. 

And yet you supported something that did both?

27 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

I'll admit guilt of trolling. See! I can be reasonable.

I am more inclined to believe you just had no idea what you were supporting.

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I was not being condescending. I was actually being honest. The Russian law is a serious problem as are many laws. Which is why I...never mind. To political.

 

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