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And Now For Some Good News on Marriage Rates

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Great news! I'm sure the opportunity to marry will bless the lives of many people in these communities. 

Edited by Gray

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I am glad to see that they are making safe lifestyle choices, or I at least hope that's what this means. Good for them.

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4 hours ago, Gray said:

Great news! I'm sure the opportunity to marry will bless the lives of many people in these communities. 

At the very same time, the rate of heterosexual marriage in the USA has been in steep decline.  http://national.deseretnews.com/article/4535/us-marriage-rate-hits-new-low-and-may-continue-to-decline.html .

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7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

At the very same time, the rate of heterosexual marriage in the USA has been in steep decline.  http://national.deseretnews.com/article/4535/us-marriage-rate-hits-new-low-and-may-continue-to-decline.html .

While I do not think same sex marriage is a healthy development I must admit to some skepticism when an acquaintance of mine loudly proclaimed that gays were destroying the institution of marriage. The man had abandoned two families and was living with his gf out of wedlock and somehow the gays are the ones destroying marriage. If marriage burns I am sure it will be a group effort. ;) 

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20 hours ago, The Nehor said:

While I do not think same sex marriage is a healthy development I must admit to some skepticism when an acquaintance of mine loudly proclaimed that gays were destroying the institution of marriage. The man had abandoned two families and was living with his gf out of wedlock and somehow the gays are the ones destroying marriage. If marriage burns I am sure it will be a group effort. ;) 

Marriages happening or lasting have been numbers always tied to traditional marriages, no denying it. New marriages are up because of the introduction of SSM, into the mix. Before any interested in who and what destroys marriage, in the future you we will all share in that number. The numbers of heterosexual marriages and the number of divorces will be published by themselves and with the SSM, totals. What no one will want to report on in the future are SSM, totals and divorces as to the number of failed marriages. When the inssue of Same Sex Couples came up within City of Atlanta workers, I was assigned to a committee that was to study the issue and decide what City Gov't would do. 

One of the issues the City Committie (hey that rhymes) brought up was this...due to a lack of SSM, how,often would a person be able to give another Health/ Pension and life insurance. When the City said that they could only do so during open enrollment, everyone that was married objected. Those who were married could only do this by filing for divorce, and then only after the divorce to insure that the judgement of the court did not extend all benefits unto wife and children until 18. Many we told that they were being silly that SSC's would not change every year. This began in the 1990's, and it did come to pass, some were giving benefits to friends, other family members, illegal aliens, etc. 

Now SSM, have to play by the rules and a large numbers thought that now they were being discriminated against because marriage change all the policies that they had I joyed for 25 years. So a lot of City workers who are Gay, have  decided that it was better before and wanted to go back. The City and Insurance carriers told them no, you want marriage, so now you have to use the rules that all married people in the past had to do. 

I know of a number who married in other States, but in Georgia it was not legal so they would just walk away. Same people married again in another State and then got upset when the ruling came down, because they were about to just walk away again, but we're now upset they would have to hire lawyers and get divorced. One such person is now planning her third marriage in November. 

In short, yes marriages are up, but tells us nothing or how long these marriages fall into decay. I for home that it does come to pass, more disallution of marriage by another group. Bad marriage numbers, bad marriages due to abuse, or bad marriages due to apathy. I hope as long as can last positive influencial strong marriages. 😇

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1 hour ago, Pa Pa said:

Marriages happening or lasting have been numbers always tied to traditional marriages, no denying it. New marriages are up because of the introduction of SSM, into the mix. Before any interested in who and what destroys marriage, in the future you we will all share in that number. The numbers of heterosexual marriages and the number of divorces will be published by themselves and with the SSM, totals. What no one will want to report on in the future are SSM, totals and divorces as to the number of failed marriages. When the inssue of Same Sex Couples came up within City of Atlanta workers, I was assigned to a committee that was to study the issue and decide what City Gov't would do. 

One of the issues the City Committie (hey that rhymes) brought up was this...due to a lack of SSM, how,often would a person be able to give another Health/ Pension and life insurance. When the City said that they could only do so during open enrollment, everyone that was married objected. Those who were married could only do this by filing for divorce, and then only after the divorce to insure that the judgement of the court did not extend all benefits unto wife and children until 18. Many we told that they were being silly that SSC's would not change every year. This began in the 1990's, and it did come to pass, some were giving benefits to friends, other family members, illegal aliens, etc. 

Now SSM, have to play by the rules and a large numbers thought that now they were being discriminated against because marriage change all the policies that they had I joyed for 25 years. So a lot of City workers who are Gay, have  decided that it was better before and wanted to go back. The City and Insurance carriers told them no, you want marriage, so now you have to use the rules that all married people in the past had to do. 

I know of a number who married in other States, but in Georgia it was not legal so they would just walk away. Same people married again in another State and then got upset when the ruling came down, because they were about to just walk away again, but we're now upset they would have to hire lawyers and get divorced. One such person is now planning her third marriage in November. 

In short, yes marriages are up, but tells us nothing or how long these marriages fall into decay. I for home that it does come to pass, more disallution of marriage by another group. Bad marriage numbers, bad marriages due to abuse, or bad marriages due to apathy. I hope as long as can last positive influencial strong marriages. 😇

That was one of my complaints about the vaguer "civil union" rules, that marriage benefits could more easily be shifted and abused. Glad to see we closed the loophole.

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3 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

In short, yes marriages are up, but tells us nothing or how long these marriages fall into decay. I for home that it does come to pass, more disallution of marriage by another group. Bad marriage numbers, bad marriages due to abuse, or bad marriages due to apathy. I hope as long as can last positive influencial strong marriages. 😇

Correct me if I am wrong. But don't church members have about the same divorce rate as the general public?  Kinda hard to be the voice of strong marriage when members themselves  pay no attention to such a voice.   What would make people that are not members listen to what the church teaches?

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According to this, Utah has a high marriage rate coupled with a lower divorce rate.  Not specifically Mormon, but some indication:

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/does-mormonism-have-a-marriage-problem/?_r=0

Actually rates are probably in the link they link to, but my tech won't work with that website.

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5 hours ago, Calm said:

According to this, Utah has a high marriage rate coupled with a lower divorce rate.  Not specifically Mormon, but some indication:

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/13/does-mormonism-have-a-marriage-problem/?_r=0

Actually rates are probably in the link they link to, but my tech won't work with that website.

I found a couple of studies on this.  Looks like Mormon divorce rate is about average.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_divo.htm

Quote

 

Overall, the Mormon divorce rate appears to be no different from the average American divorce rate. A 1999 study by Barna Research of nearly 4,000 U.S. adults showed that 24% of Mormon marriages end in divorce -- a number statistically equal to the divorce rate among all Americans. 5Members of non-denominational churches (typically Fundamentalist in teaching) and born-again Christians experience a significantly higher divorce rate; Agnostics and Atheists have much a lower rate. 6 More info.

This data is supported by an earlier study the National Survey of Families and Households. It found that about 26% of both Mormons and non-Mormons had experienced at least one divorce at some time during their life.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

 

Quote

 

Barna report: Variation in divorce rates among Christian faith groups:

Denomination (in order of decreasing divorce rate)

% who have been divorced

Non-denominational ** 34%
Baptists 29%
Mainline Protestants 25%
Mormons 24%
Catholics 21%
Lutherans 21%

** Barna uses the term "non-denominational" to refer to Evangelical Christian congregations that are not affiliated with a specific denomination. The vast majority are fundamentalist in their theological beliefs. More info

Barna's results verified findings of earlier polls: that conservative Protestant Christians, on average, have the highest divorce rate, while mainline Christians have a much lower rate. They found some new information as well: that atheists and agnostics have the lowest divorce rate of all.  George Barna commented that the results raise "questions regarding the effectiveness of how churches minister to families." The data challenge "the idea that churches provide truly practical and life-changing support for marriage.

 

 

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7 hours ago, california boy said:

Correct me if I am wrong. But don't church members have about the same divorce rate as the general public?  Kinda hard to be the voice of strong marriage when members themselves  pay no attention to such a voice.   What would make people that are not members listen to what the church teaches?

I pointed that out in my comments, that now seem edited. It is too early for anyone to argue that SSM, will do better in marriage than anyone else. One commentator said that SSM, would save marriage...that is counting chickens before they hatch. I would never thought you would edit my comments to extend your position. :( 

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3 hours ago, Pa Pa said:

I pointed that out in my comments, that now seem edited. It is too early for anyone to argue that SSM, will do better in marriage than anyone else. One commentator said that SSM, would save marriage...that is counting chickens before they hatch. I would never thought you would edit my comments to extend your position. :( 

I think you missed the reason for my post.  While you do mention divorce rates, I see no reference to LDS divorce rates, which is what I commented on.  I thought that your post (which I enjoyed reading)  had a lot of interesting points.  But they were very diverse points.  The reason for my edit was not to promote some kind of agenda, but rather to just comment on the part of your post that I wondered about.  I certainly did not mean  to twist or change the meaning of your post.  If you feel I have done so, I apologize.

I also completely agree with you that there is no evidence that gay couples will do any better at marriage than any other group.  And frankly if I was to guess, I would highly doubt they will be any better at marriage than anyone else.  I guess time will tell.  

What is interesting about the article is the sheer number of gay couples that decided to live in a marriage relationship.  I was quite surprised at the 30% now living in marriage.  Does anyone know what percent of straight couples choose to marry?  Just interested at how far apart those two numbers are.  

As most of you know, I am not married to my partner.  Even though I am no longer a member of the church, I have decided to follow the church's beliefs.  I see no reason for me to marry.  And the church seems to indicate that it is worse if I do commit to a marriage covenant.  So we remain unmarried.  Until someone can give me a reason why I should marry, I will probably stay like this, even though I have no intention or desire to ever leave my relationship with him.  I have truly found the love of my life and count my blessings every day for that relationship.

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In the past there has been a high variation depending on activity level, temple marriage vs, nontemple partial member family (that rate is extremely high iirc), but I haven't seen a study lately that divides out significant variables.

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That was supposed to be full vs. partial member family...can't edit.

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1 hour ago, california boy said:

I think you missed the reason for my post.  While you do mention divorce rates, I see no reference to LDS divorce rates, which is what I commented on.  I thought that your post (which I enjoyed reading)  had a lot of interesting points.  But they were very diverse points.  The reason for my edit was not to promote some kind of agenda, but rather to just comment on the part of your post that I wondered about.  I certainly did not mean  to twist or change the meaning of your post.  If you feel I have done so, I apologize.

I also completely agree with you that there is no evidence that gay couples will do any better at marriage than any other group.  And frankly if I was to guess, I would highly doubt they will be any better at marriage than anyone else.  I guess time will tell.  

What is interesting about the article is the sheer number of gay couples that decided to live in a marriage relationship.  I was quite surprised at the 30% now living in marriage.  Does anyone know what percent of straight couples choose to marry?  Just interested at how far apart those two numbers are.  

As most of you know, I am not married to my partner.  Even though I am no longer a member of the church, I have decided to follow the church's beliefs.  I see no reason for me to marry.  And the church seems to indicate that it is worse if I do commit to a marriage covenant.  So we remain unmarried.  Until someone can give me a reason why I should marry, I will probably stay like this, even though I have no intention or desire to ever leave my relationship with him.  I have truly found the love of my life and count my blessings every day for that relationship.

I understand and thank for the clarification, no one including I mentioned anything about LDS Marriage as neither the OP or anyone else did. The OP avoided the topic and posted only about increases in the number of "marriages" on the increase due to SSM's. As for the state of traditional marriages that end in divorces, it is and has been a tragedy for a long time. When my wife and I married, she had just turned 19 and I was about to be 19. Fourty years later we have defied the odds, we were too young, even though in Love and we still are...still too young. I have witnessed so many returned missionaries come home and marry the only person they ever dated, and having known both for their entire lives, I worry like a parent over them. Living in the same Ward for 30+ years you see it a lot, but compared to the same with family outside the Church, don't know a single marriage to survive when married before the age of 25. Throughout the U.S., it would seem that the reasons are as different as the couples in many cases. What is not a surprise is that among Churches in which marriage is a a Cornorstone of the Faith, couples do fare better; maybe? 

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Marriage is HARD!  I tend to think that it divorces in general will increase..and marriages will decrease because there is a generation coming up that can love deeply...but don't want to do anything that is hard.

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6 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Marriage is HARD!  I tend to think that it divorces in general will increase..and marriages will decrease because there is a generation coming up that can love deeply...but don't want to do anything that is hard.

On one hand I agree with you but I am not convinced this generation is that different. In past generations there was social stigma and pressure along with much more severe economic repercussions (particularly for women) in getting a divorce. If we had changed that earlier would more marriages have collapsed in the past?

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

On one hand I agree with you but I am not convinced this generation is that different. In past generations there was social stigma and pressure along with much more severe economic repercussions (particularly for women) in getting a divorce. If we had changed that earlier would more marriages have collapsed in the past?

I didn't think of that..it is a good point.  I think more marriages would have dissolved.  Maybe it is not a generation thing.  Thank you for having me rethink this a little. 

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On 6/26/2016 at 5:27 AM, california boy said:

I found a couple of studies on this.  Looks like Mormon divorce rate is about average.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_divo.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

 

 

I think that you will find that the divorce rate for temple marriage is much lower than the national average. If you scroll down the article you linked, you will find this quote.

"A 1993 study published in Demography [magazine] showed that Mormons marrying within their church are least likely of all Americans to become divorced. Only 13 percent of LDS couples have divorced after five years of marriage, compared with 20 percent for religiously homogamist unions among Catholics and Protestants and 27 percent among Jews. However, when a Mormon marries outside his or her denomination, the divorce rate soars to 40 percent -- second only to mixed-faith marriages involving a Jewish spouse (42 percent)."

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On 6/26/2016 at 0:35 AM, california boy said:

Correct me if I am wrong. But don't church members have about the same divorce rate as the general public?  Kinda hard to be the voice of strong marriage when members themselves  pay no attention to such a voice.   What would make people that are not members listen to what the church teaches?

You see what you want to see, as in your quotation from Justin Werner:  "I just think it's interesting that God seems to hate the same people his followers do. And he always seems to think exactly the way they do. A cynical person might be suspicious."

Most scholars reading the Bible find exactly the opposite:  A very painful story in which God's followers do not obey him, and who have great difficulty repenting.  Indeed, of the teachings of Jesus, Jewish writer Franz Schwarz-Bart declared that he taught an "impossible love."  Just so, anti-Mormons are desperate to find fault with Mormons, rather than reporting the data honestly.

 

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On 6/27/2016 at 11:05 PM, Danzo said:

I think that you will find that the divorce rate for temple marriage is much lower than the national average. If you scroll down the article you linked, you will find this quote.

"A 1993 study published in Demography [magazine] showed that Mormons marrying within their church are least likely of all Americans to become divorced. Only 13 percent of LDS couples have divorced after five years of marriage, compared with 20 percent for religiously homogamist unions among Catholics and Protestants and 27 percent among Jews. However, when a Mormon marries outside his or her denomination, the divorce rate soars to 40 percent -- second only to mixed-faith marriages involving a Jewish spouse (42 percent)."

As statistical data goes, this is quite dated. I wonder if there are any recent studies that break this down? 

 

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7 minutes ago, Gray said:

As statistical data goes, this is quite dated. I wonder if there are any recent studies that break this down? 

 

It would be nice, I just think its interesting that this data is part of the article that California Boy referenced, but decided to ignore.

I don't think that in any ward I have been in, the average of temple married active members that I know who have experienced a divorce would be 1 in 4.  

1 in 10 would be closer to my experience.

 

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On 6/26/2016 at 10:46 AM, california boy said:

As most of you know, I am not married to my partner.  Even though I am no longer a member of the church, I have decided to follow the church's beliefs.  I see no reason for me to marry.  And the church seems to indicate that it is worse if I do commit to a marriage covenant.  So we remain unmarried.  Until someone can give me a reason why I should marry, I will probably stay like this, even though I have no intention or desire to ever leave my relationship with him.  I have truly found the love of my life and count my blessings every day for that relationship.

Well, far be it from me to try to convince you to take a step you're not inclined to take, but I don't think the Church minds if you marry your partner.  The only possible fly in the ointment would be if either of you had parental custody of a minor child who wanted to be baptized into the LDS church.  

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On Sunday, June 26, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Jeanne said:

Marriage is HARD!  I tend to think that it divorces in general will increase..and marriages will decrease because there is a generation coming up that can love deeply...but don't want to do anything that is hard.

Sort of makes me question how deep is their love.  Somehow I got the impression that loving deeply meant that you were willing to make some sacrifices for the happiness of the person you love.  Even, occasionally, a hard-to-make sacrifice.   
 

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