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GLBT+ Protest planned for Fast Sunday?

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4 hours ago, rockpond said:

It's your fault if you interpret the wearing of a rainbow ribbon as expressing opposition to the leaders of the church.  That isn't at all what the rainbow ribbon means. 

In this instance, it does, according to the blogger on Huffington Post, who went on at length about how, for the campaign this Sunday, it is in reference to the "leaked" Church policy and who said that the intent is to "change the Church from within." 

I asked you if this blogger is not a reliable source regarding the intent of the campaign. I don't recall that you responded except for disingenuously trying to attribute the piece to Huffington Post when Huffington Post didn't write it, the author of the article did. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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16 hours ago, Rivers said:

Showing love and support for people is always great.  But there is a line between supporting LGBT individuals and celebrating homosexuality.

I  think there is a big difference between actually celebrating and being supportive.  I don't celebrate for my LGBT friends and family, they are in a tough spot and not much to celebrate until there is a sort of acceptance.  But I support and love them and I want to show it.  I am not LDS...and won't be attending meetings tomorrow.  But..I have asked the cake lady at the store (I work at Walmart bakery) to make me some ribbons to attach to my badge.

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3 hours ago, JAHS said:

My point is that we need to take some responsibility for what people are going to think. We can't put all the blame on them just because they are not thinking what we want them to think.  The rainbow colors in general have come to represent the active gay lifestyle; an issue that is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and what our latter-day prophets have told us.  You may want the ribbon to represent love and support for gay people affected by the new policy, but many people are going to see it as a protest against it or as an attempt to promote the gay lifestyle. These thoughts that people will have is not conducive to an experience of proper worship in Sacrament meeting. You say they are wrong for having these thoughts, but they may not even be aware of the real reason you are doing it. 

 

But that is what they identify with..how will they know we understand and care about them if we don't use the association of the rainbow?

 

3 hours ago, JAHS said:

My point is that we need to take some responsibility for what people are going to think. We can't put all the blame on them just because they are not thinking what we want them to think.  The rainbow colors in general have come to represent the active gay lifestyle; an issue that is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and what our latter-day prophets have told us.  You may want the ribbon to represent love and support for gay people affected by the new policy, but many people are going to see it as a protest against it or as an attempt to promote the gay lifestyle. These thoughts that people will have is not conducive to an experience of proper worship in Sacrament meeting. You say they are wrong for having these thoughts, but they may not even be aware of the real reason you are doing it. 

 

Sorry about the double quote.

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15 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

But that is what they identify with..how will they know we understand and care about them if we don't use the association of the rainbow?

You can do that if you want; just not in Sacrament meeting. That's the main issue here.  You can also show your support by the way you live your life and the way you treat everyone at church. If you know someone who is gay go up to them and tell them how you feel. If you have an attitude of love for everyone, those you don't know are gay will feel that love and support you have for them. 

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3 minutes ago, JAHS said:

You can do that if you want; just not in Sacrament meeting. That's the main issue here.  You can also show your support by the way you live your life and the way you treat everyone at church. If you know someone who is gay go up to them and tell them how you feel. If you have an attitude of love for everyone, those you don't know are gay will feel that love and support you have for them. 

Okay..tomorrow,I will go up to or call a gay friend/family and tell them how I feel.  Will you?

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9 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Okay..tomorrow,I will go up to or call a gay friend/family and tell them how I feel.  Will you?

OK. Actually I have already recently done that. 

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9 minutes ago, JAHS said:

OK. Actually I have already recently done that. 

Good!!  I love you for that!

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38 minutes ago, JAHS said:

You can do that if you want; just not in Sacrament meeting. That's the main issue here.  You can also show your support by the way you live your life and the way you treat everyone at church. If you know someone who is gay go up to them and tell them how you feel. If you have an attitude of love for everyone, those you don't know are gay will feel that love and support you have for them. 

I don't think you are realizing that these people are in your sacrament meetings! 

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I imagine it varies. 

Some will take it to heart, receive the help they need, and strive to confirm their lives to principles of righteousness. 

Of those who feel pain from it, some will pridefully resist it to their own detriment. 

Many forms of therapy are initially painful but, in the long term, bring healing and wellness. 

What help and therapy to LGBT youth need?

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5 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I don't think you are realizing that these people are in your sacrament meetings! 

Sure I do. But in my opinion it's still not the proper place to make such a statement that could be misinterpreted by others for the reasons already given.

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In this instance, it does, according to the blogger on Huffington Post, who went on at length about how, for the campaign this Sunday, it is in reference to the "leaked" Church policy and who said that the intent is to "change the Church from within." 

I asked you if this blogger is not a reliable source regarding the intent of the campaign. I don't recall that you responded except for disingenuously trying to attribute the piece to Huffington Post when Huffington Post didn't write it, the author of the article did. 

The "Huffington Post" doesn't write anything... People who work for the Huff Post do the writing.  The article was published on the Huffington Post site.  I don't know about the reliability of the author.  I would tend to rely on Kristy Money as the originator of the initiative. 

The event is being held on a day that is 7 months after the policy was made public. It has been the source of a lot of pain so I guess they feel that's appropriate.  It is also the SLC pride parade Sunday.  That's significant as well. 

Regarding the change they are striving for: they've stated that it is to encourage an increase in love, support, safe spaces, and discussion.  For you to continue to deny that and claim that they are opposing our leaders or doing this to change the  policy is to ignore the statements that Money has made about the initiative. 

If this were an initiative coming from the Brethren, you would likewise expect everyone to believe what the Brethren were saying about the reasons for it rather than listening to critics' claims. You should afford Money and others the same respect. 

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5 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Sure I do. But in my opinion it's still not the proper place to make such a statement that could be misinterpreted by others for the reasons already given.

I have a question for you and others here.  What will you do..or not do..tomorrow when some of your ward members come into Sacrament Meeting with a rainbow ribbon?  Will you confront them?  Ignore them?  Will the Bishopric take a list of names and call them in? 

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4 minutes ago, rockpond said:

The "Huffington Post" doesn't write anything... People who work for the Huff Post do the writing.  The article was published on the Huffington Post site.  I don't know about the reliability of the author.  I would tend to rely on Kristy Money as the originator of the initiative. 

The event is being held on a day that is 7 months after the policy was made public. It has been the source of a lot of pain so I guess they feel that's appropriate.  It is also the SLC pride parade Sunday.  That's significant as well. 

Regarding the change they are striving for: they've stated that it is to encourage an increase in love, support, safe spaces, and discussion.  For you to continue to deny that and claim that they are opposing our leaders or doing this to change the  policy is to ignore the statements that Money has made about the initiative. 

If this were an initiative coming from the Brethren, you would likewise expect everyone to believe what the Brethren were saying about the reasons for it rather than listening to critics' claims. You should afford Money and others the same respect. 

Here is what someone else said, in an article supposedly referencing the Huffington post article and Kristy Money:

"One group especially affected are LGBT+ teens. Parents are kicking these children out their homes because the church says that “excommunicating is a loving gesture to stop sin,” Money said, because it will inspire repentance and obedience.

World Religion News: "The Rainbow Mormon Initiative Offers Support for LGBT Mormons"

Since when has excommunication ever meant to kick the children out of the home? I am sure it might happen in a few families, but this is an example of how this issue is getting distorted by others. 

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9 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I have a question for you and others here.  What will you do..or not do..tomorrow when some of your ward members come into Sacrament Meeting with a rainbow ribbon?  Will you confront them?  Ignore them?  Will the Bishopric take a list of names and call them in? 

My guess is that no one will be wearing one. Members in my California ward don't usually go in for things like this. I get the feeling this is mostly a Utah thing.  If they do everyone will probably ignore them, but who knows what they will be thinking as a result of seeing it. I will be thinking that it is the wrong place to make such a statement. The Bishop might speak to them privately about it, but then he might not even be aware of the reason for it. We will see what happens.

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

The "Huffington Post" doesn't write anything... People who work for the Huff Post do the writing.  The article was published on the Huffington Post site.  I don't know about the reliability of the author.  I would tend to rely on Kristy Money as the originator of the initiative. 

The event is being held on a day that is 7 months after the policy was made public. It has been the source of a lot of pain so I guess they feel that's appropriate.  It is also the SLC pride parade Sunday.  That's significant as well. 

Regarding the change they are striving for: they've stated that it is to encourage an increase in love, support, safe spaces, and discussion.  For you to continue to deny that and claim that they are opposing our leaders or doing this to change the  policy is to ignore the statements that Money has made about the initiative. 

If this were an initiative coming from the Brethren, you would likewise expect everyone to believe what the Brethren were saying about the reasons for it rather than listening to critics' claims. You should afford Money and others the same respect. 

The author of the piece is not a critic of the campaign. She's wholly onboard with it.  I don't think she "works for" Huffington Post  I think she's a guest blogger writing an opinion piece  

Why shouldn't I assume she's correctly characterizing the purpose and intent? Do you have reliable information to the contrary? 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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38 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The author of the piece is not a critic of the campaign. She's wholly onboard with it.  I don't think she "works for" Huffington Post  I think she's a guest blogger writing an opinion piece  

Why shouldn't I assume she's correctly characterizing the purpose and intent? Do you have reliable information to the contrary? 

No.  Why don't you believe the founder of the initiative when she explains the change they are trying to effectuate? 

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1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

I have a question for you and others here.  What will you do..or not do..tomorrow when some of your ward members come into Sacrament Meeting with a rainbow ribbon?  Will you confront them?  Ignore them?  Will the Bishopric take a list of names and call them in? 

I don't expect to see it in my ward. 

I'm guessing that wherever it happens the participants will be ignored unless they get in people's faces, in which case they will be corrected by the respective bishop. 

If I were a teacher and someone tried to bring it up for discussion, I'd likely disallow it. 

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1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Here is what someone else said, in an article supposedly referencing the Huffington post article and Kristy Money:

"One group especially affected are LGBT+ teens. Parents are kicking these children out their homes because the church says that “excommunicating is a loving gesture to stop sin,” Money said, because it will inspire repentance and obedience.

World Religion News: "The Rainbow Mormon Initiative Offers Support for LGBT Mormons"

Since when has excommunication ever meant to kick the children out of the home? I am sure it might happen in a few families, but this is an example of how this issue is getting distorted by others. 

Utah has a significant problem with homeless LGBT youth.  I don't think the issue is being distorted. 

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5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Utah has a significant problem with homeless LGBT youth.  I don't think the issue is being distorted. 

That may be but the statement is still incorrect. It makes it sound like the church is telling parents to kick the children out of their homes.

Edited by JAHS

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5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

No.  Why don't you believe the founder of the initiative when she explains the change they are trying to effectuate? 

Has she denied they are doing it in opposition to Church policy and position?

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Has she denied they are doing it in opposition to Church policy and position?

So, guilty until proven innocent.  Nice.  I know how much you appreciate when critics do that to church leaders. 

I don't know whether she has or not.  You're a journalist for the church, maybe you should ask her. 

Or maybe she will ignore your question as you've ignored mine.  

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9 minutes ago, JAHS said:

That may be but the statement is still incorrect. It makes it sound like the church is telling parents to kick the children out of their homes.

Wrong.  She said that the church's policy of excommunicating as a loving gesture to stop sin might be sending a message that a "tough love" approach with one's gay children is appropriate. 

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6 minutes ago, rockpond said:

So, guilty until proven innocent.  Nice.  I know how much you appreciate when critics do that to church leaders. 

I don't know whether she has or not.  You're a journalist for the church, maybe you should ask her. 

Or maybe she will ignore your question as you've ignored mine.  

I'm going by what an avowed advocate of the campaign has written on a prominent internet publication with a general readership. So far, you haven't given me a good reason to disregard it. 

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4 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Wrong.  She said that the church's policy of excommunicating as a loving gesture to stop sin might be sending a message that a "tough love" approach with one's gay children is appropriate. 

I don't see anything in there about tough love; you are assuming that. It is not a very well written statement. It sounds like kicking kids out of the home is automatically a part of the excommunication process. Some parents may do that but most do not.

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7 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Wrong.  She said that the church's policy of excommunicating as a loving gesture to stop sin might be sending a message that a "tough love" approach with one's gay children is appropriate. 

"Might be"?

We have no greater reason to assume this is generally happening in Mormon homes than we do to assume Mormons generally are following the clear teaching from the Church not to do such a thing. 

There is no substance to this notion. It's an "I wouldn't put it past 'em" accusation, the type based on sheer hostility and cynicism. 

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