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GLBT+ Protest planned for Fast Sunday?

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22 minutes ago, rockpond said:

OTOH, since the policy has been a source of pain for many members, it seems like an appropriate day to show support.

Do we really know how many members is "many"? Or are there only a few very vocal members?

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6 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

I don't wear one myself.  I have already admitted that I am not a purist by stating that I don't mind military uniforms or scouting uniforms being worn in church.  

It is a sad commentary when we can only demonstrate love to a small subset of humanity rather than all humanity.  It is a sad commentary when society dictates that we must value one small subset of people over everyone else.  

As I stated above, "I understand that individuals do not feel loved, appreciated, or understood.  It does not matter if they are gay, straight, black, brown, fat, young, old - if they are human you will find these feelings.  I don't think gay people are special or any different than any other human."  The issue is showing love to all.

Being Gay is the the new fad, the new "in" thing for everyone. They are celebrated from sea to shining sea in this nation.  No one else can be discussed, talked about, cared for, loved, or anything else.  What is wrong with loving all humanity?  Are gay people the only ones that don't feel loved, appreciated, wanted?  Of course not!  That is a load of poppycock that those with an agenda attempt to portray - to pull the heart strings - IN CHURCH no less.  

We all have our own pet peeves, pet topics, and causes.  I just don't think that Sacrament meeting is the place for "you" - the collective you as in all of us - should not push that agenda in church.  Don't tell me to vote for Trump, Bernie, or Hillary - I don't want anyone to tell me to vote for any special party in church; keep your social agendas for the office, for after work; and for picketing General Conference, City Hall, Town Meetings, or any other place that are made for such discussions.

Yes, I think it is a bad idea that comes from a good place.  I have no problems with those who want to express their love for any subset of humanity.  Put a flag out in front of your house, wear a rainbow pin to work, on the bus, on the airplane, anywhere that is appropriate to take such a stand,  Church is not one of those places. 

When we demonstrate love to a small subset of humanity, are showing love for ALL humanity.  Let's quit separating people and treat one like we would treat ourselves.

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54 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

When we demonstrate love to a small subset of humanity, are showing love for ALL humanity.  Let's quit separating people and treat one like we would treat ourselves.

That make sense.  What does not make sense is instead of demonstrating love for all people we choose specific subgroups for whom we will demonstrate love and everyone else gets ignored.  It does not make sense.  As you said, quit separating people and treat everyone like we would treat ourselves.  It is a good saying, but it makes no sense to pick and choose who we will choose to love and who we will not.  

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10 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

That make sense.  What does not make sense is instead of demonstrating love for all people we choose specific subgroups for whom we will demonstrate love and everyone else gets ignored.  It does not make sense.  As you said, quit separating people and treat everyone like we would treat ourselves.  It is a good saying, but it makes no sense to pick and choose who we will choose to love and who we will not.  

i do understand what you are saying..I mean, nobody is wearing rainbow colors for anybody but gay citizens and members.  But nobody will let us show them how we love them like we do for eachother in  a Sunday Morning talk..heck..they aren't allowed to be there.

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1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

i do understand what you are saying..I mean, nobody is wearing rainbow colors for anybody but gay citizens and members.  But nobody will let us show them how we love them like we do for eachother in  a Sunday Morning talk..heck..they aren't allowed to be there.

That is crap and you know it.  If they want to be there they are there.  There is no one who directs who may and may not attend.  It is good propaganda, but it is a flat out lie that anyone, including gay people, are not allowed to attend a church meeting.  You know better!

You show people you love them by serving them regardless of their religion, gender, sexual preference, or race.  Gay individuals respond to love and being served just like anyone else does.  They are not Martians; they are human.  Treat them as such. 

If your objective is to make an activists happy then wear a silly rainbow to work, to the PTA meeting, to your gym, anywhere that it is appropriate.  Put one up on your house.  In fact, paint your entire home in rainbow colors to let those activists know you really care.  BUT, if you want the gay individual sitting next to you in church, shake their hand, talk to them, sincerely ask after their welfare, send them a kind card, leave the rainbow pin for the activists.  

Anyone can wear a sign announcing who they are - their actions speak so much louder and define your true self. 

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4 hours ago, rockpond said:

OTOH, since the policy has been a source of pain for many members, it seems like an appropriate day to show support.

Then pick another venue for it. 

Using the Church's own worship services and sacred spaces to express opposition to a Church policy strikes me as effrontery. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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40 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Then pick another venue for it. 

Using the Church's own worship services and sacred spaces to express opposition to a Church policy strikes me as effrontery. 

It is pious, self-righteous and out right rebellion to the Lord's established order.

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14 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

I don't wear one myself.  I have already admitted that I am not a purist by stating that I don't mind military uniforms or scouting uniforms being worn in church.  

It is a sad commentary when we can only demonstrate love to a small subset of humanity rather than all humanity.  It is a sad commentary when society dictates that we must value one small subset of people over everyone else.  

As I stated above, "I understand that individuals do not feel loved, appreciated, or understood.  It does not matter if they are gay, straight, black, brown, fat, young, old - if they are human you will find these feelings.  I don't think gay people are special or any different than any other human."  The issue is showing love to all.

Being Gay is the the new fad, the new "in" thing for everyone. They are celebrated from sea to shining sea in this nation.  No one else can be discussed, talked about, cared for, loved, or anything else.  What is wrong with loving all humanity?  Are gay people the only ones that don't feel loved, appreciated, wanted?  Of course not!  That is a load of poppycock that those with an agenda attempt to portray - to pull the heart strings - IN CHURCH no less.  

We all have our own pet peeves, pet topics, and causes.  I just don't think that Sacrament meeting is the place for "you" - the collective you as in all of us - should not push that agenda in church.  Don't tell me to vote for Trump, Bernie, or Hillary - I don't want anyone to tell me to vote for any special party in church; keep your social agendas for the office, for after work; and for picketing General Conference, City Hall, Town Meetings, or any other place that are made for such discussions.

Yes, I think it is a bad idea that comes from a good place.  I have no problems with those who want to express their love for any subset of humanity.  Put a flag out in front of your house, wear a rainbow pin to work, on the bus, on the airplane, anywhere that is appropriate to take such a stand,  Church is not one of those places. 

I don't think anyone has said we should love gay people any more than we love anyone else.  I do think people are saying that many gay people do feel LESS loved and cared for because of past and current church policies

Christ showed his love for EVERYONE when he showed his love for the woman being stoned for adultery. We show our love for all humanity by how we treat those that are scorned the most.

I understand you personally not wanting to participate in something like this.  I have never worn badges or pins or ribbons to church as well.  But that doesn't mean I don't think it is a good idea to show support and inclusiveness towards those who may not feel supported or a part of the church.  If the following week someone wanted to wear a white ribbon to remind us to show love towards white people who feel unloved in the church, I wouldn't have a problem with that either.  Showing love and concern is never a bad thing.  

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3 hours ago, california boy said:

I don't think anyone has said we should love gay people any more than we love anyone else.  I do think people are saying that many gay people do feel LESS loved and cared for because of past and current church policies

Christ showed his love for EVERYONE when he showed his love for the woman being stoned for adultery. We show our love for all humanity by how we treat those that are scorned the most.

I understand you personally not wanting to participate in something like this.  I have never worn badges or pins or ribbons to church as well.  But that doesn't mean I don't think it is a good idea to show support and inclusiveness towards those who may not feel supported or a part of the church.  If the following week someone wanted to wear a white ribbon to remind us to show love towards white people who feel unloved in the church, I wouldn't have a problem with that either.  Showing love and concern is never a bad thing.  

Showing love and concern is never a bad thing - we agree completely with one another.  However, the disagreement is over how we show love and concern.  I sense that you think I don't love my gay friends or have concern for them; that is an error.  

Whether or not someone wears a pin to a church meeting - white, yellow, pink, or rainbow does not mean someone does not care of is not committed to a whole host of causes.  It means, imo, that we respect the purposes of a Sacrament meeting and are not willing to violate that purpose for any other cause.  

Jesus showed love for all regardless of the choices they made in life.  We each should emulate that example and not ridicule people for the choices they make.  However, what Jesus did not do is begin wearing emblems to support those people most hated or rejected by society.  It did something far more important - he sat down with them, ate with them, and loved them.  This is the example we should follow rather than become the pawns is a social war designed and implemented by activists of one sort or another.  Their cause is not ours; their agenda is not ours nor should it be.  

 

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12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Then pick another venue for it. 

Using the Church's own worship services and sacred spaces to express opposition to a Church policy strikes me as effrontery. 

 

10 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

It is pious, self-righteous and out right rebellion to the Lord's established order.

They aren't protesting the policy.  They are showing love and support for a group of people.  How is that not appropriate for Church?  How is that self-righteous rebellion?

This is such a small thing, I can't believe it would generate such negative responses. It feels like you two will just be against anything that shows any kind of empathy toward LGBT individuals. 

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1 minute ago, rockpond said:

 

They aren't protesting the policy.  They are showing love and support for a group of people.  How is that not appropriate for Church?  How is that self-righteous rebellion?

This is such a small thing, I can't believe it would generate such negative responses. It feels like you two will just be against anything that shows any kind of empathy toward LGBT individuals. 

Except you don't know me and how I personally show empathy for my loved ones who are LGBT. So yeah. Sacrament meetings are not the place to make a political/social statement (that's what this is), they are a place to worship and renew covenants. Anything that distracts from that is inappropriate behavior.

Additionally, I don't buy your claim that this isn't a protest. I all but guarantee to you that everyone who participates is against the policy and believes it is harmful and unloving and that wearing the pin is a way to try and counter that. I dare you to disagree with that.

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38 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

Except you don't know me and how I personally show empathy for my loved ones who are LGBT. So yeah. Sacrament meetings are not the place to make a political/social statement (that's what this is), they are a place to worship and renew covenants. Anything that distracts from that is inappropriate behavior.

Additionally, I don't buy your claim that this isn't a protest. I all but guarantee to you that everyone who participates is against the policy and believes it is harmful and unloving and that wearing the pin is a way to try and counter that. I dare you to disagree with that.

To this excellent post, I would add that it is the height of hubris to turn sacred Sabbath day worship services into a venue for protests. Latter-day Saints have the right to attend their Sabbath day services in peace and find there a refuge from the rancor of political and social debate among other things.

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15 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

That make sense.  What does not make sense is instead of demonstrating love for all people we choose specific subgroups for whom we will demonstrate love and everyone else gets ignored.  It does not make sense.  As you said, quit separating people and treat everyone like we would treat ourselves.  It is a good saying, but it makes no sense to pick and choose who we will choose to love and who we will not.  

SR...the rest of us aren't going through a huge struggle in society or in the church.  The rest of us know we are loved.  It is such a small thing..let's just forget Mother's Day too..no flowers..no nothing..because all of us are a subset to a group.  Acknowledgement of others and love, concern and a desire to include is never a bad thing and actually an asset to the church.  Yeah..they can join others at church, but if they have partners/married, they are exed.  That says so much doesn't it?  We love you..but.

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27 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

SR...the rest of us aren't going through a huge struggle in society or in the church.  The rest of us know we are loved.  It is such a small thing..let's just forget Mother's Day too..no flowers..no nothing..because all of us are a subset to a group.  Acknowledgement of others and love, concern and a desire to include is never a bad thing and actually an asset to the church.  Yeah..they can join others at church, but if they have partners/married, they are exed.  That says so much doesn't it?  We love you..but.

You are equating supporting gay lifestyles in Sacrament meeting to acknowledging Mother's Day?  Seriously?

No, not everyone feels loved, respected, appreciated, and wanted.  How many humans do you talk to?  How many women do you know that feels that degree of appreciation and love?  Or, who does not want more of it?

Sacrament meeting has a purpose; it is a sacred purpose.  Is it really so much to ask of all of God's children to focus on Jesus Christ, his sacrifice and love for one hour every week?  Why is it so important that that sacred time be divided into a time to acknowledge a social agenda for individuals who want to rebel against the teachings of the Church?  

This is the Church of Jesus Christ.  You might disagree with it, hate it, roll your eyes at it, but it still stands as an emblem to the world that Jesus is the Christ.  We don't follow after fads, social agendas, political parties, etc.  The Church has a purpose and function and it is to call all - everyone - to repentance, to be baptized, and to enter into the Kingdom of God.  The Church strives to invite each from their current state to engage the Holy Spirit and to emulate Jesus Christ, to take his name upon themselves and strive to become like the Savior.  

God loves all of his children and he hates sin.  Is that a "but"?  Should God just toss out the sin part of the gospel along with repentance and just accept us the way we are without any requirement for any degree of righteousness UNLESS it feels good to us at the moment?  How does that better the human state?  

One sin is not better than the other - all are sinners and all are called to repentance.  Who are not welcome in Church?  Those who reject the Savior and who do not desire to follow his teachings or obey his commandments.  Those who prefer to follow after their own passions, their own will, and who have no desire - who are not willing - to take upon themselves the name of Christ are not welcome.  These individuals would either be bored or repelled by church meetings.  

As an aside, being gay is a struggle in our society?  Where?  They are the new sacred cow of the Left.  All must bow at their feet and worship the great gay lifestyle of death.  No one can criticize it; no one can tell the truth about what it does to the soul; no one can stand against it and have a business.  All must be forced to bow down to them.  Give me a break and let's be honest with one another.  That victim card is a dog that won't hunt with me.  

 

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On 5/29/2016 at 9:21 PM, flameburns623 said:

Not fond of posting this. I won't be discussing the topic. But it's news. 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/rainbow-mormon-initiative_b_10110474.html

This is purely a side note.

I wonder if Huffington Post employs anyone to proofread the content that appears on its website.

In this case, the author committed a malapropism, the mistaken use of a word in place of a similar-sounding one. She wrote:

Quote

June 5 is the day of Pride Parade in Salt Lake City, and is a “Fast Sunday,” which is a special Sunday where Mormons go for twenty-four hours without food to experience spiritual closeness to God and to understand the struggles of the poor and needy. It’s also a day when instead of a typical, organized sermon, people are asked to stand and speak contemporaneously, as the spirit moves them.

(Bold emphasis mine for reference)

Her use of "contemporaneously" is rather clearly an error. From context it is evident that the proper word to use in that instance would be extemporaneously, which an online source defines as

Quote

done, spoken, performed, etc., without special advance preparation; impromptu:

an extemporaneous speech.

 

Contemporaneously, on the other hand, means
 
  • Quote

    existing or happening during the same time period

    Maybe, since a blog post is the expression of a personal opinion by an author, Huffington Post thinks that excuses it from employing professional standards with regard to editing, spelling, grammar, word usage etc. If so, it is just one more example of how standards of excellence with regard to language have decayed with the advent of the internet.

 
 

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2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Maybe, since a blog post is the expression of a personal opinion by an author, Huffington Post thinks that excuses it from employing professional standards with regard to editing, spelling, grammar, word usage etc. If so, it is just one more example of how standards of excellence with regard to language have decayed with the advent of the internet.

 
 

The Huffington Post has long since forfeited any attempt for true journalism and is following in the steps of some of the English rags of sensationalism.  It has become very hit and miss and it should no longer be relied upon to be a valid, respectable source.

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4 hours ago, Mystery Meat said:

Except you don't know me and how I personally show empathy for my loved ones who are LGBT. So yeah. Sacrament meetings are not the place to make a political/social statement (that's what this is), they are a place to worship and renew covenants. Anything that distracts from that is inappropriate behavior.

Additionally, I don't buy your claim that this isn't a protest. I all but guarantee to you that everyone who participates is against the policy and believes it is harmful and unloving and that wearing the pin is a way to try and counter that. I dare you to disagree with that.

I don't know you and I am also not questioning how you show empathy to your LGBT loved ones.  You, on the other hand, have decided that what has been planned as "an initiative" to "show love and support" is a protest and political/social statement.

Neither of us can speak for everyone who may participate next Sunday but I would tend to agree that a majority will likely be folks who oppose the policy.  That still does not make it a protest.

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4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

To this excellent post, I would add that it is the height of hubris to turn sacred Sabbath day worship services into a venue for protests. Latter-day Saints have the right to attend their Sabbath day services in peace and find there a refuge from the rancor of political and social debate among other things.

Despite your claims and your decision on how to title the thread, it is not a protest.

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32 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I don't know you and I am also not questioning how you show empathy to your LGBT loved ones.  You, on the other hand, have decided that what has been planned as "an initiative" to "show love and support" is a protest and political/social statement.

Neither of us can speak for everyone who may participate next Sunday but I would tend to agree that a majority will likely be folks who oppose the policy.  That still does not make it a protest.

You already did question my willingness to show empathy.

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7 minutes ago, Mystery Meat said:

You already did question my willingness to show empathy.

I questioned your willingness to accept the actions of others that show empathy toward the LGBT community.  Not your own empathy.  But feel free to share how you show empathy to LGBT loved ones and neighbors.  How do you suggest that we help our young LGBT ward members feel more accepted and less alone?

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4 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

You are equating supporting gay lifestyles in Sacrament meeting to acknowledging Mother's Day?  Seriously?

No, not everyone feels loved, respected, appreciated, and wanted.  How many humans do you talk to?  How many women do you know that feels that degree of appreciation and love?  Or, who does not want more of it?

Sacrament meeting has a purpose; it is a sacred purpose.  Is it really so much to ask of all of God's children to focus on Jesus Christ, his sacrifice and love for one hour every week?  Why is it so important that that sacred time be divided into a time to acknowledge a social agenda for individuals who want to rebel against the teachings of the Church?  

This is the Church of Jesus Christ.  You might disagree with it, hate it, roll your eyes at it, but it still stands as an emblem to the world that Jesus is the Christ.  We don't follow after fads, social agendas, political parties, etc.  The Church has a purpose and function and it is to call all - everyone - to repentance, to be baptized, and to enter into the Kingdom of God.  The Church strives to invite each from their current state to engage the Holy Spirit and to emulate Jesus Christ, to take his name upon themselves and strive to become like the Savior.  

God loves all of his children and he hates sin.  Is that a "but"?  Should God just toss out the sin part of the gospel along with repentance and just accept us the way we are without any requirement f.  or any degree of righteousness UNLESS it feels good to us at the moment?  How does that better the human state?  

One sin is not better than the other - all are sinners and all are called to repentance.  Who are not welcome in Church?  Those who reject the Savior and who do not desire to follow his teachings or obey his commandments.  Those who prefer to follow after their own passions, their own will, and who have no desire - who are not willing - to take upon themselves the name of Christ are not welcome.  These individuals would either be bored or repelled by church meetings.  

As an aside, being gay is a struggle in our society?  Where?  They are the new sacred cow of the Left.  All must bow at their feet and worship the great gay lifestyle of death.  No one can criticize it; no one can tell the truth about what it does to the soul; no one can stand against it and have a business.  All must be forced to bow down to them.  Give me a break and let's be honest with one another.  That victim card is a dog that won't hunt with me.  

 

It is time to talk about things that really affect people now.  Whether in Sacrament Meeting or in Gospel Doctrine..yeah..lets treat people like adults and quit ignoring the elephant in the room  People are dying to talk about something else..and they can actually grow from it.  Same old..same old..at least have a night class or something so people can stimulate their minds with their hearts and spiritual desires.

We all struggle..and we talk about those struggles in our churches.  But I can just bet that half the membership doesn't have a clue what it is like to be LDS and gay.  If you want to be adamant about being fair and without subsets, then talk about it all! Yes, their people just like you..imperfect in the eyes of the church.  If you want same treatment for all..then discuss it!

Edited by Jeanne

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12 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I questioned your willingness to accept the actions of others that show empathy toward the LGBT community.  Not your own empathy.  But feel free to share how you show empathy to LGBT loved ones and neighbors.  How do you suggest that we help our young LGBT ward members feel more accepted and less alone?

By expressing and showing forth in increase of love as we encourage them to keep the commandments.

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1 minute ago, Mystery Meat said:

By expressing and showing forth in increase of love as we encourage them to keep the commandments.

How would they know?  Do we talk about loving our LGBT youth specifically?  How do you reach out to them?  Do you know who they are?

You see, in our wards, most of them are not out.  They keep their sexual orientation a secret.  This group is trying to do something to let them know that they, specifically those who are LGBT, are loved and supported.

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6 minutes ago, rockpond said:

How would they know?  Do we talk about loving our LGBT youth specifically?  How do you reach out to them?  Do you know who they are?

You see, in our wards, most of them are not out.  They keep their sexual orientation a secret.  This group is trying to do something to let them know that they, specifically those who are LGBT, are loved and supported.

They know because I tell them. We shouldn't have to talk about LGBT youth specifically (even though we do) any more than we should talk about all other interest groups specifically. We are commanded to love and show love to all. I don't want to comment on or use my LGBT friends and family and my relationship with them on a public message board, so I will refrain from using specific examples. 

People can do any number of things to show their love. Co-opting a sacred meeting without authority is a form of apostasy, no matter how good they think their intentions are (I think they are bad), and should be discouraged. 

Edited by Mystery Meat

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7 minutes ago, rockpond said:

How would they know?  Do we talk about loving our LGBT youth specifically?  How do you reach out to them?  Do you know who they are?

You see, in our wards, most of them are not out.  They keep their sexual orientation a secret.  This group is trying to do something to let them know that they, specifically those who are LGBT, are loved and supported.

Yes..and it is sad that for some, we will never know until we see an obituary..I have seen too many of them!!

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