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Happy Creation Day!


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4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

According to Johannes Kepler the Universe celebrates its 6,993rd birthday

If the Creation is also the beginning of the 7,000 years it will have to be a very quick Millenium. No wonder the temples will have to be so busy.

Kepler spoke without knowledge, and your New Year's greeting is six months premature, Nehor.

The traditional Jewish New Year (1 Tishri - Rosh haShana) in Sept-Oct was the Day of Creation of the World, the day of birth of Adam, the Patriarchs, and of Jesus, and the day of the accession of God to His Throne.  As John H. Eaton has put it:    

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In the festal hour . . . Yahweh overpowers chaos, takes his kingship, makes right order, sends forth life, and enters into intimate communion with his liberated people.   Festal Drama in Deutero-Isaiah (1979), 12, cited in Blake T. Ostler, "The Book of Mormon as a Modern Expansion of an Ancient Source," Dialogue, 20/1 (Spring 1987):89.

Indeed, the Feast of the Blessed Name of the Virgin Mary takes place on the first Sunday after Sept 12 (= Sept 22 New Style/Gregorian, i.e., Autumnal Equinox), and Augustus Caesar (“Illustrious-Caesar” = Octavian) was born in Rome on September 23, 63 B.C.  Joseph Smith himself took the gold Plates of Mormon from the hill near Manchester on Jewish New Year's Day (1 Tishri), Sept 22, 1827 AD, a date which was also the Autumnal Equinox for that year, and at the close of a Jewish Sabbatical year.  Joseph then hid the plates in a hollow log, and retrieved them ten days later on the holiest day of the Jewish year, Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement).  Though undoubtedly ignorant of Jewish tradition, Joseph Smith successfully eluded his enemies that day, and became a hero in the classic ritual-myth tradition:    

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A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.  Joseph Campbell, Hero with a Thousand Faces, 30; cf. 10 n.10; Edgar C. Snow, Jr., “One Face of the Hero: In Search of the Mythological Joseph Smith,” Dialogue, 27/3 (Fall 1994):233-247.  

The boon may be a divine message, runes of wisdom, the Golden Fleece, the Holy Grail, or golden plates.  The hero may be commoner or king.  The symbols may differ, but the archetypal, numinous pattern remains constant.

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Nah...April 6th is the anniversary of the earth's birth.  Everyone knows that.

And we are only around 6020 years into the temporal 7000 year life of the earth.  Subject to a few mathematical errors.

And when using the idea that a year in heaven/Kolob is a thousand years here that makes the prophesied half hour of silence at the start of the Millennium about 22 years.

Getting closer...sorry Pres. Packer.

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12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Nah...April 6th is the anniversary of the earth's birth.  Everyone knows that.

And we are only around 6020 years into the temporal 7000 year life of the earth.  Subject to a few mathematical errors.

And when using the idea that a year in heaven/Kolob is a thousand years here that makes the prophesied half hour of silence at the start of the Millennium about 22 years.

Getting closer...sorry Pres. Packer.

I think you may be serious but maybe not.  But if you are... I like that you aren't afraid to say so.  

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13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

According to Johannes Kepler the Universe celebrates its 6,993rd birthday

If the Creation is also the beginning of the 7,000 years it will have to be a very quick Millenium. No wonder the temples will have to be so busy.

I always celebrate it August 11, getting my  k’uhul on with a ritual bloodletting and a chat with the Vision Serpent.

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I dont' care what anyone's saying, I'm celebrating today.  my cake's looking delish.  I'll put all the candles in and hopefully it'll be so decimated I wont' have to eat it, and I suspect it'll be windy enough to give the earth a chance to blow out the candles.  It's been a little stormy. 

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On 4/28/2016 at 7:27 AM, JLHPROF said:

Nah...April 6th is the anniversary of the earth's birth.  Everyone knows that.

And we are only around 6020 years into the temporal 7000 year life of the earth.  Subject to a few mathematical errors.

And when using the idea that a year in heaven/Kolob is a thousand years here that makes the prophesied half hour of silence at the start of the Millennium about 22 years.

Getting closer...sorry Pres. Packer.

I presume you are using Bishop Ussher's chronology for your calculation, and that is how you arrive at 6020. There were others tho:

Ussher's proposed date of 4004 BC differed little from other Biblically-based estimates, such as those of Jose ben Halafta (3761 BC), Bede (3952 BC), Ussher's near-contemporary Scaliger (3949 BC), Johannes Kepler (3992 BC) or Sir Isaac Newton (c. 4000 BC).

I have found Bishop Ussher's chronology to be highly accurate, but it is possible it is a few years off from the beginning of Adam. Plus we don't know that the beginning of Adam was the opening of the first seal. That may have been when the Lord instituted the Sabbath. Similarly we don't know that the birth of the Savior was the opening of the fifth seal or whether that began during His ministry. Nonetheless, it seems the events of each seal normally occur extremely close to the beginning of each 1000 yr period. It is possible that the 1000 yr periods themselves mark the seals as seems the case with the 6th seal which opens with some calamitous events far before the restoration of the gospel towards the end of the 6000 years. If so, then it seems the time of the seventh seal has begun and we are indeed about 16 years into the 21 yrs of silence in Heaven, and are in "the millennium." So not "getting closer" but there. In this vein, you may wish to peruse D&C 88:95 and thereabouts in conjunction with Revelation 8 & 9. Otherwise, I find you to basically be "right on the money."

Not sure why you are saying "sorry Pres Packer." Didn't he merely say the time is not close to see our Savior or for "His return"? He is correct that the earth will not see Him for some time. That doesn't mean the saints will not see Him or meet Him "in the sky." The Savior's return to Jerusalem("thou shalt not see me again until thou shalt say blessed is He who cometh in the name of the Lord") is not for hundreds of years. There may be several resurrections before this event.

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20 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

I presume you are using Bishop Ussher's chronology for your calculation, and that is how you arrive at 6020. There were others tho:

Ussher's proposed date of 4004 BC differed little from other Biblically-based estimates, such as those of Jose ben Halafta (3761 BC), Bede (3952 BC), Ussher's near-contemporary Scaliger (3949 BC), Johannes Kepler (3992 BC) or Sir Isaac Newton (c. 4000 BC).

I have found Bishop Ussher's chronology to be highly accurate, but it is possible it is a few years off from the beginning of Adam. Plus we don't know that the beginning of Adam was the opening of the first seal. That may have been when the Lord instituted the Sabbath. Similarly we don't know that the birth of the Savior was the opening of the fifth seal or whether that began during His ministry. Nonetheless, it seems the events of each seal normally occur extremely close to the beginning of each 1000 yr period. It is possible that the 1000 yr periods themselves mark the seals as seems the case with the 6th seal which opens with some calamitous events far before the restoration of the gospel towards the end of the 6000 years. If so, then it seems the time of the seventh seal has begun and we are indeed about 16 years into the 21 yrs of silence in Heaven, and are in "the millennium." So not "getting closer" but there. In this vein, you may wish to peruse D&C 88:95 and thereabouts in conjunction with Revelation 8 & 9. Otherwise, I find you to basically be "right on the money."

 

I find Ussher's, his contemporaries, Kepler and the rest who have used the bible chronology to establish the time since Adam to be complete nonsense. These calculations rely on a handful of men to have lived 900 years or more. There isn't a single piece of evidence, anywhere, that any human has lived more than 150 years. A few people have lived into their 100's, but that is a far cry from anyone surviving almost a thousand years. Why people accept these fables as truths is beyond me.

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59 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I find Ussher's, his contemporaries, Kepler and the rest who have used the bible chronology to establish the time since Adam to be complete nonsense. These calculations rely on a handful of men to have lived 900 years or more. There isn't a single piece of evidence, anywhere, that any human has lived more than 150 years. 

I accept the Bible as at least "a shred of evidence." If you find that hard to believe, I assume you find it hard to believe that people have been resurrected and come back to life. Where is your evidence? Or that people will become immortal. You are just a doubting Thomas. 

Anyway, using a Biblical chronology, one does arrive at a beginning for Adam of around 4000 BC. Although D & C calls this the "temporal" age of the earth, I believe the earth itself is considerably older - whether it was in a celestial or paradisiacal state before then is another issue. In other words I believe the "days" of creation represent "generations" of the earth.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I accept the Bible as at least "a shred of evidence." If you find that hard to believe, I assume you find it hard to believe that people have been resurrected and come back to life. Where is your evidence? Or that people will become immortal. You are just a doubting Thomas. 

Anyway, using a Biblical chronology, one does arrive at a beginning for Adam of around 4000 BC. Although D & C calls this the "temporal" age of the earth, I believe the earth itself is considerably older - whether it was in a celestial or paradisiacal state before then is another issue. In other words I believe the "days" of creation represent "generations" of the earth.

 

 

 

 

Usually when evidence is asked for or given, the source is inspected, not merely "respected" because of title or name. In the case of the Old Testament it would serve one well to inspect both the "who" and the "when" for the Old Testament. Most assuredly, Moses didn't write the Books of Moses, the Torah. Check any Bible sources and you'll see that thse books were written many, mant years after Moses and therefore are hearsay.

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5 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I find Ussher's, his contemporaries, Kepler and the rest who have used the bible chronology to establish the time since Adam to be complete nonsense. These calculations rely on a handful of men to have lived 900 years or more. There isn't a single piece of evidence, anywhere, that any human has lived more than 150 years. A few people have lived into their 100's, but that is a far cry from anyone surviving almost a thousand years. Why people accept these fables as truths is beyond me.

Beyond you, it is.

Imagine with Yoda's voice, and chuckle.

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On 4/28/2016 at 5:17 PM, The Nehor said:

According to Johannes Kepler the Universe celebrates its 6,993rd birthday

If the Creation is also the beginning of the 7,000 years it will have to be a very quick Millenium. No wonder the temples will have to be so busy.

Shhhh.  The Universe, a Mrs., doesn't really want anyone to know how old she is.

She would probably like that you would think she is that young, though.  I usually just consider her to be ageless, with no beginning and also no end to all that she is.

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2 hours ago, Ahab said:

Beyond you, it is.

Imagine with Yoda's voice, and chuckle.

Yeah, I get that. Yoda, in episode VI was 900 years old. But I was really asking for something more than a fantasy figure to give something to back up humans living to 900 years old or more. If you want to believe Yoda was real, that's up to you. How about some skeletal remains of humans, hell, any animal , reaching 900 years of age ?

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6 minutes ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Yeah, I get that. Yoda, in episode VI was 900 years old. But I was really asking for something more than a fantasy figure to give something to back up humans living to 900 years old or more. If you want to believe Yoda was real, that's up to you. How about some skeletal remains of humans, hell, any animal , reaching 900 years of age ?

Does the body of our Lord count as evidence to you or do you only want evidence of something that died and is still dead?

Trees get pretty old before they die and there are some that are dead and have become petrified.  I don't know if any bones have ever become petrified but I know of some living people who would probably be petrified if they saw people who were still alive after 900 years.

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2 hours ago, Ahab said:

Does the body of our Lord count as evidence to you or do you only want evidence of something that died and is still dead?

Trees get pretty old before they die and there are some that are dead and have become petrified.  I don't know if any bones have ever become petrified but I know of some living people who would probably be petrified if they saw people who were still alive after 900 years.

The oldest living animal we know of is just over 183, a tortoise.

I cannot believe there is an actual discussion about this. It was a joke.

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7 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

Usually when evidence is asked for or given, the source is inspected, not merely "respected" because of title or name. In the case of the Old Testament it would serve one well to inspect both the "who" and the "when" for the Old Testament. Most assuredly, Moses didn't write the Books of Moses, the Torah. Check any Bible sources and you'll see that thse books were written many, mant years after Moses and therefore are hearsay.

I agree Moses did not write the Torah, although he did write down some of the law and commandments he was given - perhaps all of them. It would be reasonable to assume that Joshua wrote the Torah, and thus it is not hearsay, as he was an eye witness to many of the events. I guarantee you the Torah is the inspired word of God. If you want to doubt it tho, I can't stop you. 

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7 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I guarantee you the Torah is the inspired word of God. 

I like to be specific in my use of language. No, you cannot "guarantee" that the Torah is the inspired word of god. You "want" it to be so, you "believe" it to be so, but you cannot "guarantee" it as such.

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6 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

I like to be specific in my use of language. No, you cannot "guarantee" that the Torah is the inspired word of god. You "want" it to be so, you "believe" it to be so, but you cannot "guarantee" it as such.

I give you my personal guarantee. i will even make good on it in a few years. :)

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