re polygamy

[Ahab]

5 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Did the early LDS practice of polygamy produce more children per woman than monogamous marriages did?

Per woman?  Not really the issue as I see it.

Per marriage when a man had more than 1 wife seems likely or at least reasonably possible to me.

 

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, ttribe said:

I'm curious, the perception I have from your posts on this board is that you are something of a proponent of polygamy.  Am I correct?  If so, can you expand on your reasons for becoming a somewhat active advocate for the practice versus some of the more passive acceptance expressed by many members of the Church?

Simple.
I don't want to fall into this category:

"But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand.  I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions" - Joseph Smith

Whatever God requires is right and based on the teachings of the early prophets I gained a testimony that polygamy is the order of heaven, and just like consecration/tithing, that higher law was revoked for now.  I have no problem with polygamy being forbidden at this time, but I have no issue with the practice and believe it is the family structure of our Heavenly Father and our Savior.  In the eternities, when our eternal family and marriage sealings are manifest, there will be many polygamists in the Celestial society.  We should get used to having polygamists "in our ward" whether we choose to live it or not - everyone has agency.

[JulieM]

8 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Per woman?  Not really the issue as I see it.

Because only the men are important, right?

As long as your women keep pumping those babies out for you every 9 months!

Edited April 28, 2016 by JulieM

[JLHPROF]

15 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Did the early LDS practice of polygamy produce more children per woman than monogamous marriages did?

Irrelevant - the raising of righteous seed is not limited to this sphere of existence.
Joseph may not have had a great posterity in this life, but I will guarantee he will have a larger one than any monogamist in the eternities.
"The Glory of God is Intelligence" - and this isn't necessarily referring to knowledge, but to intelligences as described by Abraham - numberless posterity and endless kingdoms.

[ttribe]

4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Simple.
I don't want to fall into this category:

"But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand.  I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions" - Joseph Smith

Whatever God requires is right and based on the teachings of the early prophets I gained a testimony that polygamy is the order of heaven, and just like consecration/tithing, that higher law was revoked for now.  I have no problem with polygamy being forbidden at this time, but I have no issue with the practice and believe it is the family structure of our Heavenly Father and our Savior.  In the eternities, when our eternal family and marriage sealings are manifest, there will be many polygamists in the Celestial society.  We should get used to having polygamists "in our ward" whether we choose to live it or not - everyone has agency.

Interesting.  Thanks.

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Because only the men are important, right?

As long as your women keep pumping those babies out for you every 9 months!

Someday I hope you will see how funny I think this is.

What you're experiencing is a misunderstanding. 

[juliann]

3 hours ago, ttribe said:

Thank you.  Can someone please page Juliann to come help put Ahab in his place?

I think there just needs to be periodic warnings about Mormons who advocate polygamy based on 19th century...if not iron age... thinking.

[rockpond]

18 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Per woman?  Not really the issue as I see it.

Per marriage when a man had more than 1 wife seems likely or at least reasonably possible to me.

 

If there were other men to marry that woman and produce offspring (and there were) than it is relevant to ask if it increased the number of children per woman,.

[ttribe]

6 minutes ago, juliann said:

I think there just needs to be periodic warnings about Mormons who advocate polygamy based on 19th century...if not iron age... thinking.

[rockpond]

9 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Irrelevant - the raising of righteous seed is not limited to this sphere of existence.
Joseph may not have had a great posterity in this life, but I will guarantee he will have a larger one than any monogamist in the eternities.
"The Glory of God is Intelligence" - and this isn't necessarily referring to knowledge, but to intelligences as described by Abraham - numberless posterity and endless kingdoms.

But then we have nothing in our canon to back up such a claim.  Oh well.

[Ahab]

2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

If there were other men to marry that woman and produce offspring (and there were) than it is relevant to ask if it increased the number of children per woman,.

Work it out in your mind some more and then put it down in writing with more details to show how any comparison per woman would be possible.

The question is how many men it takes to make any number of women pregnant.  The answer is only one.

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, rockpond said:

But then we have nothing in our canon to back up such a claim.  Oh well.

Just good reasoning.

The marriage commandment to multiply and replenish the earth is given as part of the ETERNAL marriage sealing and covenant (and not coincidentally AFTER we pass through the Celestial glory).  Therefore the commandment cannot be judged complete based on this life alone.  It must be seen to be an eternal commandment.

Edited April 28, 2016 by JLHPROF

[ALarson]

5 minutes ago, Ahab said:

The question is how many men it takes to make any number of women pregnant.  The answer is only one.

This just keeps getting better 

[Jeanne]

2 minutes ago, ALarson said:

This just keeps getting better 

Yeah..it reminds me of a talk I had with my mother when I was twelve.

[ALarson]

14 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Yeah..it reminds me of a talk I had with my mother when I was twelve.

So funny 

(I'm out of rep points for today, if I remember, I'll be back to give you one tomorrow!)

ETA:

I was just able to give you one!  Before it said I was out of them?

.

Edited April 28, 2016 by ALarson

[VideoGameJunkie]

It's interesting to me how so many modern mormons disagree on the issue of polygamy. This is why I wish a member of the Q15 would come out and comment. The best I could do was poll 24 LDS girls and ask how they feel about it. 22 of them don't think it's ever coming back in this life or the next and the other 2 don't think it's coming back but would be willing to live it if God commanded it. So out of 24 LDS women I polled only 2 would be willing to live God commanded polygamy and none of the 24 think it's coming back. It'll be hard to live polygamy if no women are on board.

Edited April 28, 2016 by VideoGameJunkie

[juliann]

12 minutes ago, Ahab said:

 

The question is how many men it takes to make any number of women pregnant.  The answer is only one.

For all the polygamy advocates who imagine such a heaven,  let that sink in the next time you visualize a need for you there.

[Ahab]

9 minutes ago, ALarson said:

This just keeps getting better 

As long as one man doesn't get to have every woman, and I can have at least 1 for me, I won't complain.

[ttribe]

8 minutes ago, Ahab said:

As long as one man doesn't get to have every woman, and I can have at least 1 for me, I won't complain.

Do you think about this crap before you write it?  Seriously.  You are talking about women like they are pieces of candy - "Hey, guys!  Just make sure you leave one for me!"

This is sickening.

Edited April 28, 2016 by ttribe

[Ahab]

10 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Yeah..it reminds me of a talk I had with my mother when I was twelve.

The birds and the bees talk?

Ah yes, I remember it well.

And I like that I get to be like a bee.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

The birds and the bees talk?

Ah yes, I remember it well.

And I like that I get to be like a bee.

[Jeanne]

4 minutes ago, Ahab said:

The birds and the bees talk?

Ah yes, I remember it well.

And I like that I get to be like a bee.

You just may be the most disappointed man in your celestial kingdom Ahab.  I feel for you.  I do.

[rockpond]

25 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Work it out in your mind some more and then put it down in writing with more details to show how any comparison per woman would be possible.

The question is how many men it takes to make any number of women pregnant.  The answer is only one.

I remember coming across data in an article that showed monogamous women in Utah (when polygamy was practiced there) had more children on average than polygamous women.  But I don't remember where that article is so I am not going to make a claim.  It's just my recollection.

The point being... there is FAR more at play than how many men it takes to get a woman pregnant.  At one extreme take, for example, the fact that Brigham Young had so many wives that he couldn't even spend a week per year with each one.

[rockpond]

28 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Just good reasoning.

The marriage commandment to multiply and replenish the earth is given as part of the ETERNAL marriage sealing and covenant (and not coincidentally AFTER we pass through the Celestial glory).  Therefore the commandment cannot be judged complete based on this life alone.  It must be seen to be an eternal commandment.

I don't find it to be good reasoning.

Multiply and replenish the earth would be creating physical bodies, not spirits or intelligences.

[Okrahomer]

3 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I remember coming across data in an article that showed monogamous women in Utah (when polygamy was practiced there) had more children on average than polygamous women.  But I don't remember where that article is so I am not going to make a claim.  It's just my recollection.

The point being... there is FAR more at play than how many men it takes to get a woman pregnant.  At one extreme take, for example, the fact that Brigham Young had so many wives that he couldn't even spend a week per year with each one.

You might be thinking of this.

"The research also revealed that while polygamous men had dozens of children, the practice of having multiple wives (and thus sexual partners) had the opposite effect on women: For every wife added to the fold, the average number of children per wife dropped by one. The more wives a woman's husband has, the fewer children she is going to have personally," study author Michael Wade, a biologist at Indiana University Bloomington, told LiveScience. "That's interesting, and evolutionary biologists would say then that polygamy is good for males and maybe not so good for females."