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VideoGameJunkie

Would you want to know if the church actually wasn't true?

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This is obviously just a hypothetical question, but if the church wasn't actually true, would you want to know the truth, or would you rather keep things the way they are, and not change anything because you want your life to be familiar and the same? I'm always a seeker of truth so I would want to know the truth, even if it hurt, and figure out where to go from there, but would you? Again this is a hypothetical since I know everyone here will say they already KNOW that the church is true.

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I know it's become almost an article of faith amongst those in the Church of Former and Soon-to-be Former Latter-day Saints that the rest of us just don't want to know the truth, but seriously, I don't know a single Church member like that. Do you?

Edited by Hamba Tuhan

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of course and I think that's the chance? risk? you take when you are finding out. 

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Would you want to know if the church actually wasn't true?

The way you phrase the question could be applied to any church, anywhere, and Mormon missionaries are virtually saying that someone else's church is not true (in the sense that it is not the vehicle approved of and operated by God at this moment).  So, of course, someone who holds erroneous beliefs and who is a member of a church which is not operating under divine auspices might very well want to know that fact.  It might be difficult emotionally, and it might even divide a family.  So, yes, some people might want to let well enough alone.  That is understandable.

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I cannot imagine a better religious belief system even if it is plucked from thin air, so I cannot even imagine what it means that the belief system is "not true".

As the best possible belief system, for me, that DEFINES what makes a church "true" in the first place.

For me the church is as "true" as A=A.  It defines what a religious belief system should be!

Edited by mfbukowski

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There are several first hand Near Death Experiences, including my own aunt and close female friend's grandma, who have been clinically and legally dead and experienced the other side and have claimed all religion is man made and that love is all that matters, not what religion you are. So would finding out that no religion matters since they're just creations of men, be a shocker in your life? It's possible we all have it wrong since God has no religion and loves all His children equally.

Edited by VideoGameJunkie

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5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I cannot imagine a better religious belief system even if it is plucked from thin air, so I cannot even imagine what it means that the belief system is "not true".

As the best possible belief system, for me, that DEFINES what makes a church "true" in the first place.

For me the church is as "true" as A=A.  It defines what a religious belief system should be!

But what if in God's eyes it doesn't even matter what religion we are? We Mormons like to puff ourselves up and boast that we're the ONLY correct religion.

Edited by VideoGameJunkie

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10 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

We Mormons like to puff ourselves up and boast ...

Speak for yourself, please.

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14 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

There are several first hand Near Death Experiences, including my own aunt and close female friend's grandma, who have been clinically and legally dead and experienced the other side and have claimed all religion is man made and that love is all that matters, not what religion you are.

Why should I trust reports of what other people have supposedly experienced over my own firsthand experiences?

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16 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

There are several first hand Near Death Experiences, including my own aunt and close female friend's grandma, who have been clinically and legally dead and experienced the other side and have claimed all religion is man made and that love is all that matters, not what religion you are. So would finding out that no religion matters since they're just creations of men, be a shocker in your life? It's possible we all have it wrong since God has no religion and loves all His children equally.

I recall someone once asking me whether God is a Methodist, which is nonsense.  God is not a member of some earthly church or mosque or synagogue.  Of course he loves all his children equally.  However, he has traditionally selected spokespersons to speak on his behalf at critical junctures in history, and he has made covenants and promises, so that he can bring all of mankind back to him in glory.  That is what the Plan of Salvation is all about.

I have attended learned symposia on NDEs put on by the Mennninger Foundation, and have read a number of books and articles on NDEs, but I haven't found the result you describe.  You might want to explore the taxonomy found in Wikipedia at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience .

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6 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

But what if in God's eyes it doesn't even matter what religion we are? We Mormons like to puff ourselves up and boast that we're the ONLY correct religion.

Well it doesn't say that anywhere for a start.  

I believe that just from a rational perspective the BELIEFS of the church are the best set of belief possible for mankind.  What that means for me is that we are the church with the most truth available to mankind.  Additionally we are a living church because we have an open canon and can adjust to the times. Our principles promote LIFE more than any other church because the family is the source of the LIFE of mankind- family values literally have survival value and promote the best life for mankind.  And we essentially worship family values.  So yes, we are a church with the most truth and our values promote LIFE more than any other church I know of.

If in God's eyes it doesn't matter what religion we are - that's his business.  I personally want to be the best human being I am capable of being regardless.

If God doesn't care, I care.  So here I am.  But honestly our whole idea of God is that he wants us to be the best we can be- there is no religion which believes that God wants us to be "bad".  So being the best human may differ in interpretation but I think that the idea that God does not want us to be the "best" we can be is just not possible.  That is what God is!

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23 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

But what if in God's eyes it doesn't even matter what religion we are? We Mormons like to puff ourselves up and boast that we're the ONLY correct religion.

No clue where you are getting this.

You must live in Utah.

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20 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Why should I trust reports of what other people have supposedly experienced over my own firsthand experiences?

So you don't believe Joseph Smith? I mean you didn't experience and weren't around to see what Joseph Smith supposedly experienced either.

Edited by VideoGameJunkie

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6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

No clue where you are getting this.

You must live in Utah.

I do live in Utah and it's everywhere. Leaders have brought up in sacrament meeting how we're lucky to be in the one true church.

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7 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

So you don't believe Joseph Smith?

I do. Now, do you want to guess why?

I'll give you a hint, from the Prophet himself: 'If I had not experienced what I have, I should not have believed it myself'.

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6 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Leaders have brought up in sacrament meeting how we're lucky to be in the one true church.

I did a workshop at our local YSA convention on this topic on Saturday. I do feel lucky to be a member of the 'one true church'. As I said then, I feel like I've won the lottery without ever having bought a ticket. And in large part, that's what drives me in my Church service. I am certain that God doesn't love me any more than He loves His other children, so I feel impassioned to make sure others have the same opportunities at the same blessings that I do.

Now, can you please identify the 'puffing' and 'boasting' in how I feel?

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1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I did a workshop at our local YSA convention on this topic on Saturday. I do feel lucky to be a member of the 'one true church'. As I said then, I feel like I've won the lottery without ever having bought a ticket. And in large part, that's what drives me in my Church service. I am certain that God doesn't love me any more than He loves His other children, so I feel impassioned to make sure others have the same opportunities at the same blessings that I do.

Now, can you please identify the 'puffing' and 'boasting' in how I feel?

Thinking you're the only one right means thinking everyone else is wrong and that's puffing up and when you go around saying you're the only one that's right that's boasting.

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       Would want to know how Joseph Smith Jr changed his stylometry wordprint pattern multiple times to produce the BofM or was it spirit writting from an unseen world taking over his mind/body to produce the text.

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

              Kal El

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24 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

But what if in God's eyes it doesn't even matter what religion we are? We Mormons like to puff ourselves up and boast that we're the ONLY correct religion.

If God didn't care I would still choose Mormonism.

 

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6 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I do. Now, do you want to guess why?

I'll give you a hint, from the Prophet himself: 'If I had not experienced what I have, I should not have believed it myself'.

So you believe him because his story is so crazy to have been made up that it has to be true?

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1 hour ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

This is obviously just a hypothetical question, but if the church wasn't actually true, would you want to know the truth, or would you rather keep things the way they are, and not change anything because you want your life to be familiar and the same? I'm always a seeker of truth so I would want to know the truth, even if it hurt, and figure out where to go from there, but would you? Again this is a hypothetical since I know everyone here will say they already KNOW that the church is true.

For me this is not a hypothetical.

The only way to know the truth of anything is to live the associated principles (and in the case of a church, the covenants) until doing so proves otherwise …and all that’s happened for me so far is continued confirmation that the Church is true.

One of many evidences of its truthfulness is the continued expansion of “commandments not a few and revelations in their time” (personal and from the Brethren) for me to prove, and so far these have proven to be true as well.

The smartest thing for anyone to do is to keep doing what it takes to know oneself as well as who or what one is involved with. For example, we do what it takes to know ourselves until we need to repent and then we repent so as to know more; we do what it takes to know the Lord until He shows us more and we can do more with that knowledge. The Church has proven to me to be the best vehicle available to me for accomplishing this, and so I invite others to try it out and see for themselves.

The recent talk by President Uchtdorf gets into this a bit: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/10/it-works-wonderfully?lang=eng

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1 minute ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Thinking you're the only one right means thinking everyone else is wrong and that's puffing up and when you go around saying you're the only one that's right that's boasting.

You're making several assumptions and a couple of logical leaps here, VGJ.

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2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

If God didn't care I would still choose Mormonism.

Same, actually.

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I never believe people when they get up in fast and testimony meeting and say they KNOW all the stuff. I feel they should say they BELIEVE. Unless it's been revealed to them in a vision by an angel they are just believing. I think it should be ok to say I believe. You got 5 year olds going up in F&T and stating they KNOW the church is true. Really? At 5 I didn't even know how to play Super Mario Bros.

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