Should Mormons Eat Meat "sparingly", As Taught In Doctrine & Covenants 89?

[Calm]

There are many things we are told God wants us to do that not doing does not prevent us from going to the temple. For example, one can avoid missionary work and still get a recommend.

So we may be getting blessings associated with the temple, while still depriving ourselves of other blessings.

[The Nehor]

So in the temple recommend question where it asks us if we keep the word of wisdom, should everyone who eats meat during the summer time say that they don't keep the word of wisdom?

Because that does not seem to apply to the temple recommend question it seems that we are at least reaping the blessings of the temple by living a part of the principle. And that's enough for me. 

 

I think a 500 pound man under the delusion that he is living the Word of Wisdom and can run without being weary should definitely consider their answer carefully. Same with a heavy meat eater.

 

It is clear that that part of the Word of Wisdom is not currently being enforced in the Recommend question. Not surprising. It took us over a century just to get the most blatant "do nots" under control. It will probably take another century or two to handle the rest of it.

 

I personally have spent some time pondering it. It says that it is adapted to the weakest of those that can be called saints and I am not living it fully....does that make me not a saint? I assume it definitely disqualifies me from the full blessings promised as well. Kind of annoying but hard to read it any other way.

[JAHS]

I think a 500 pound man under the delusion that he is living the Word of Wisdom and can run without being weary should definitely consider their answer carefully. Same with a heavy meat eater.

 

It is clear that that part of the Word of Wisdom is not currently being enforced in the Recommend question. Not surprising. It took us over a century just to get the most blatant "do nots" under control. It will probably take another century or two to handle the rest of it.

 

I personally have spent some time pondering it. It says that it is adapted to the weakest of those that can be called saints and I am not living it fully....does that make me not a saint? I assume it definitely disqualifies me from the full blessings promised as well. Kind of annoying but hard to read it any other way.

 

Here's a few more: 

Are we using tobacco as an herb for bruises and all sick cattle? Are farmers feeding corn to their oxen, oats to their horses, rye to their chickens and swine, and barley for all other useful animals?

 

Some of these might apply today but I think it's obvious that following those things listed in Section 89 need to be considered in light of the further light and knowledge we have acquired since it was written. 

[halconero]

There are many things we are told God wants us to do that not doing does not prevent us from going to the temple. For example, one can avoid missionary work and still get a recommend.

So we may be getting blessings associated with the temple, while still depriving ourselves of other blessings.

One of the most vived conversations I can recall from my mission is with a convert who was called to the High Council a mere 8 months after his baptism. What he said rang true with me. He remarked that the temple recommend addresses the bare minimum needed to enter the temple and is not sufficient for the fulfilling of our covenants, the involvement of Christ's sanctifying grace in our lives, and eventual exaltation. In no part of the temple recommend interview are we asked about our Sabbath Day worship, our home teaching, whether or not we give a generous fast offering, or if we pray daily and read our scriptures. Yet all of these are vital in our progression and salvation.

We are not living in complete compliance with the Word of Wisdom as a people currently. Perhaps more in the future.

Personal aside: For myself, it has become increasingly clear from restoration scriptures that Latter-day Saints are to primarily thrive on plants and grains, with the consumption of meat being a fall-back in extreme cases of scarcity and starvation. Joseph's translation of Genesis and scriptures in D&C are both pretty clear on our accountability with regards to animals killed and consumed needlessly, and that there will be an accounting for how we have acted in relation to this injunction. Financially and even diet wise it is not difficult to be a vegetarian, or a semi-vegetarian. Meat eating is more a luxury than anything. I don't believe that such a luxury or pleasure found in the taste of meat justifies any need or scarcity. Soooooo, my own dietary choices.

Just to clarify, I don't go around my ward shoving this down people's throats. I'm pretty quiet about it, go to Chicken Wing's night and order Onion Rings or Sweet Potato Fries, and only really say something if it's brought up. I'm just passionate about it on here given the nature of discussion on the board.

Edited November 3, 2015 by halconero

[Steve-o]

I'm fine with eating meat products (like spam, hotdogs and bologna) sparingly. I'm not so willing with Bacon.

[The Nehor]

Here's a few more: 

Are we using tobacco as an herb for bruises and all sick cattle? Are farmers feeding corn to their oxen, oats to their horses, rye to their chickens and swine, and barley for all other useful animals?

 

Some of these might apply today but I think it's obvious that following those things listed in Section 89 need to be considered in light of the further light and knowledge we have acquired since it was written.

Indeed, a glass of wine a day is good for the heart. Gotta love that further light and knowledge.

The commands on what to feed livestock and the use of tobacco are suggested things you can do with it. They do not come across as commands to me. It is God saying you can use tobacco for this, it has a purpose, not that you must use it this way.

[JAHS]

Indeed, a glass of wine a day is good for the heart. Gotta love that further light and knowledge.

The commands on what to feed livestock and the use of tobacco are suggested things you can do with it. They do not come across as commands to me. It is God saying you can use tobacco for this, it has a purpose, not that you must use it this way.

 

"They do not come across as commands to me."

 

That's the point I am trying to make; none of Section 89 was at first meant to be commands:

 

"To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days."

 

What made some of it commands is what our latter-day leaders have specified as things we should take as commandments (Coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol, etc.). The rest of it are as you said, suggestions. 

[The Nehor]

"They do not come across as commands to me."

 

That's the point I am trying to make; none of Section 89 was at first meant to be commands:

 

"To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days."

 

What made some of it commands is what our latter-day leaders have specified as things we should take as commandments (Coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol, etc.). The rest of it are as you said, suggestions.

Suggestions from God with blessings attached. Not exactly a conventional suggestion.

[Calm]

Makes sense to me. It is taught generally it wasn't a command at all because it took time for church members as a whole to move towards a state where they could function well without alcohol, coffee, tea, and tobacco. It would have been difficult to say to some 'you must be abiding by these strictures, but because Brother and Sister Soandso don't have as good access to clean water, we are going to allow them to use alcohol in their drinks' and '2nd Ward has a majority of nonsmokers so they are ready to abide that part be ause the mutual community support will work towards abstaining, but with 2/3 of 5th Ward still fully addicted, it would be too hard for the other third that have had some success with quitting so far to all keep from having relaspses...and we don't want people to start avoiding church for that reason, so 5th Ward won't be held accountable yet as a community for that part'.

Why could it not just be taking longer to move towards the rest of the Word?

[Meadowchik]

Yep, one of my weirdest sacrament meeting moments was listening to a morbidly obese man (guessing 350+) plagued with continual health problems due to his weight bear testimony of the Word of Wisdom and how it blessed his life. Ummm.....okay.

It's possible that it did bless him in the degree that he followed it. Drugs? Alcohol? Or lack of? Nutrients or lack of? All those can play bad or good roles even among the obese.

[Meadowchik]

Indeed, a glass of wine a day is good for the heart. Gotta love that further light and knowledge.

The risks of alcoholism and drunkenness outweigh that benefit in some cases.

[Kyle Kenley Kopitke]

We have tthe Gift of The Holy Ghost to guide us per our individual needs.  As we pray over The Holy Scritpures, and ponder and Fast, inspiration will be opened to us on how we should proceed. 

 

I feel better if I only eat a bit of meat. 

[RevTestament]

You had me there until you brought in the goat milk.  That stuff is nasty. 

Goat milk taste varies widely with the food source. Given a good healthy grain and alfalfa diet, their milk can be tasty, but on wild forage and weeds, their milk will be quite bitter and yes...nasty. It can also vary somewhat by the type of goat. I find in general dairy from the intermountain west to have a flavor I don't care for since I grew up in the south. That taste seems even stronger in goat milk. I generally don't drink any dairy milk anyway, although I have had some delicious raw cow milk in Utah. I eat a yogurt almost every day, and I love cheese.

[RevTestament]

One of the most vived conversations I can recall from my mission is with a convert who was called to the High Council a mere 8 months after his baptism. What he said rang true with me. He remarked that the temple recommend addresses the bare minimum needed to enter the temple and is not sufficient for the fulfilling of our covenants, the involvement of Christ's sanctifying grace in our lives, and eventual exaltation. In no part of the temple recommend interview are we asked about our Sabbath Day worship, our home teaching, whether or not we give a generous fast offering, or if we pray daily and read our scriptures. Yet all of these are vital in our progression and salvation.

We are not living in complete compliance with the Word of Wisdom as a people currently. Perhaps more in the future.

Personally, I don't interpret the WoW as a commandment, but it is a generalized covenant. IF we eat a basically vegetarian diet, we will be blessed with good health, strength, vitality, etc. I personally don't get the exclusionary baptism or temple thing. I don't follow the WoW as a commandment, but as a promise from the Lord.

I place it in the same vein as Daniel's refusal to eat the rich meat diet of the king, and request to eat "pulse."

I believe a non-meat diet can also be bad. Our wheat has been bred with too much gluten and we are beginning to see gluten sensitivity. Too much simple carbohydrates from plant sources can also be quite unhealthy, and is just like eating a high sugar diet. Together with all the high fructose corn syrup I believe these foods are causing the epidemic of diabetes in our society. Carbs are like fat for plants. They are the way plants store energy - in strings of sugars - and can spike our insulin worse than eating table sugar. A diet rich in these foods can be deadly.

OK, I'm off the soapbox now. Sorry if I offended anyone. Suffice it to say, I try to follow the whole word of wisdom - not just the alcohol(strong drink), caffeinated hot drink and tobacco part. Although I personally do not feel a glass of wine or bottle of beer (mild barley drink) violates the WoW, I abstain (89:5) for the sake of the whole - it is too easy for people to abuse it and get drunk or addicted - an alcoholic takes one drink and they can't stop.

[halconero]

Out of all the things you could say or do to offend someone on this board with the situation at the moment, I feel the refrain "eat less bread" ranks at the bottom.

[halconero]

I feel that the Word of Wisdom as it was originally written was anticipatory of the restoration of the temple endowment, as outlined in its final lines' similarity with the culmination of the endowment prior to entering the presence of the Lord and the Celestial Room.

In this sense I feel that the endowment renders the Word of Wisdom a de facto commandment, as without the temple promises at the end we cannot gain a fullness of glory and exaltation.