Reason For Mental Illness And Suicide In Utah

[hagoth7 588]

An expert has an intriguing suggestion for what causes an unusually high number of suicides and a considerable degree of mental illness in Utah...and his research does not at all imply what critics would like people to think.

 

http://mic.com/articles/104096/there-s-a-suicide-epidemic-in-utah-and-one-neuroscientist-thinks-he-knows-why

Edited September 8, 2015 by hagoth7

[thesometimesaint 4,961]

Do people in higher elevations commit suicide at a higher rate than people in lower elevation?

Good question.

 

Personally I think it is the fact that Utah has a rather homogeneous population which makes for better test market than elevation does.

[Calm 33,412]

Hagoth, Your sig video is causing technical problems for me reading threads...could you please not embed it and just have a link or someting to direct to it. Thanks.

[KevinG 4,422]

Did they correct their numbers for postpartum depression?  http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/65881-provo-has-the-most-babies-in-the-country/

[williamsmith 111]

Notice the liberal quackery the article writer comes from.

 

Utah residents and experts are aware of the paradox, often attributing gun use, low population density and the area's heavy Mormon influence as potential factors. But Renshaw thinks he's identified a more likely cause for the Utah blues: altitude.

 

What in the world does "gun use" have to do anything with mental/emotional health?  Nothing.  Other than some can simply end their life easier with a gun.

That in fact is the ONLY stat that goes down when gun bans are put into place.  People kill themselves a little less when not having a gun.  Otherwise, "death" doesn't go down, because people who still want to kill people do so.

[Calm 33,412]

It should have been gun availability.

I wonder if anyone has actuals stats between actual gun use (how often one uses a gun) and suicide.

[David13 30]

Using a gun, target practice, a fun day at the range is one of the most therapeutic activities you can find.

Take a look at the cited article.

The first thing they say is, Utah is ranked as one of the happiest states.  That says all I need to know.

dc

[The Nehor 22,978]

I don't think being Mormon is the problem but being around Mormons all the time may cause depression and suicide.

[KevinG 4,422]

If I measured and got the following results...

• High use of anti-depressants.
• Low use of alcohol and recreational drugs
• High suicide rate.

The conclusion I would come to is not about Mormons, Utah's altitude, or guns.  

 

I would be looking into the efficacy of routinely prescribed anti-depressants.   

[thesometimesaint 4,961]

If I measured and got the following results...

• High use of anti-depressants.
• Low use of alcohol and recreational drugs
• High suicide rate.

The conclusion I would come to is not about Mormons, Utah's altitude, or guns.  

 

I would be looking into the efficacy of routinely prescribed anti-depressants.   

 

It's a mixed bag. All drugs loose their efficacy over time at any give dosage. So it is either change drugs, or increase dosage. Which may or may not be effective. Antidepressants when used appropriately can offer temporary to long term relief from the symptoms of depression. They were never meant to be the sole cure.

[TheSkepticChristian 124]

An expert has an intriguing suggestion for what causes an unusually high number of suicides and a considerable degree of mental illness in Utah...and his research does not at all imply what critics would like people to think.

 

Nice hypothesis.  The critics need to be careful about their conclusions.

However, apologists need to be careful about their conclusions too

 

Daniel C Peterson said, "European statistics indicate that larger families are happier families...Mormons tend to have larger families"

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2015/08/three-interesting-and-perhaps-surprising-studies.html

 

So perhaps the reason why "Mormons are happier" is not necessarily religion, but large families?

Edited September 9, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[Calm 33,412]

Why do we have large families though?

[TheSkepticChristian 124]

Why do we have large families though?

 

Good point, but the church does not require large families. 

 

and what about parents that cannot afford to have large families? What about LDS singles in their late 20s, 30s, and 40s. 

What about gay Mormons?

 

Hapiness studies on those groups will be very intersting to see if Mormons really are happier.

[sunstoned 1,478]

It should have been gun availability.

I wonder if anyone has actuals stats between actual gun use (how often one uses a gun) and suicide.

I would also be interested in "gun use" stats.  I have several guns, as do most of the people I am acquainted with (I live in Utah County) but I have not shot a gun in years.  They are all in my safe.  I feel that gun ownership does not necessarily equate to gun use. 

[Calm 33,412]

I would also be interested in "gun use" stats.  I have several guns, as do most of the people I am acquainted with (I live in Utah County) but I have not shot a gun in years.  They are all in my safe.  I feel that gun ownership does not necessarily equate to gun use.

My husband has a gun. It isn't even at our house because I just can't get rid of a gut feeling they are wrong to have around.

He goes target shooting maybe two, three times a year. He never can make it for hunting season because it is stress time at work....which I am not sad about. I love venison, but I have doubts about how good a shot he is and I've known even very experienced hunters to injure their prey and have it get away from them. Which means unnecessary pain and suffering.

Clean shot where the animal dies very quickly, I think in many ways that is more humane than the way we get most of our dairy and beef as they get to live in the wild. It is the careless hunting or trophy hunting I find offensive. Eat the meat you kill, a cow's life or some chickens are saved. The deer around here don't suffer much from fear of man or beast either it seems, they just come in the back yards and chomp on the bushes and won't take off until I start wondering if he thinks he is going to charge me. Even our dog just gets a stare, so she stays in the house so she doesn't get a kick in the head.

[Crypto 29]

It's a mixed bag. All drugs loose their efficacy over time at any give dosage. So it is either change drugs, or increase dosage. Which may or may not be effective. 

Or change dosing methods, or dosing schedules to account for changes in efficacy. (Or even a combination of all of the above.)

[Stargazer 5,318]

My husband has a gun. It isn't even at our house because I just can't get rid of a gut feeling they are wrong to have around.

I guess I have never understood this attitude. Once upon a time I gave my wife a pistol in celebration for her gaining her concealed carry permit. We've owned a number of firearms since the time some members of the Tacoma Bloods gang moved in next door about 25 years ago. After some months of having the Olympia PD camping out within a block of our house nearly every weekend and sometimes during the week, they finally moved away. But we kept the guns. It just felt safer to know that if we ever needed it that we had some means to defend ourselves. Fortunately this has not been necessary. But I still have a concealed carry permit -- the wife allowed hers to lapse, so I carry for the both us. When it seems advisable.

 

He goes target shooting maybe two, three times a year. He never can make it for hunting season because it is stress time at work....which I am not sad about. I love venison, but I have doubts about how good a shot he is and I've known even very experienced hunters to injure their prey and have it get away from them. Which means unnecessary pain and suffering.

Clean shot where the animal dies very quickly, I think in many ways that is more humane than the way we get most of our dairy and beef as they get to live in the wild. It is the careless hunting or trophy hunting I find offensive. Eat the meat you kill, a cow's life or some chickens are saved. The deer around here don't suffer much from fear of man or beast either it seems, they just come in the back yards and chomp on the bushes and won't take off until I start wondering if he thinks he is going to charge me. Even our dog just gets a stare, so she stays in the house so she doesn't get a kick in the head.

 

Seriously, you need to read this book: Call of the Mild by Lily Raff McCallou

[Calm 33,412]

"I guess I have never understood this attitude"

It was in the air where I grew up. I've seen too many shows that have kids accidentally shooting each other. It is almost pure emotion now since I know precautions can remove everything I am concerned about. There is more likely danger from all the various drugs we have around the house than a dozen guns, but I am content with those with just a safety latch on my door while my husband and daughter just leave theirs out.

I keep meaning to buy a drug safe at Ikea but never remember when we are there.

[ERayR 5,897]

A couple of thoughts about guns.  If someone is intent on committing suicide they will do it with or without a gun.  If a gun is not available they will choose some other way. 

 

A gun is a tool.  For someone who likes to shoot targets or plink cans it becomes a tool for enjoying a few afternoons.  If someone is a hunter it is one of the tools available to bring food home for his/her family.  For someone in a dangerous area guns become a tool for self protection.

[thesometimesaint 4,961]

A couple of thoughts about guns.  If someone is intent on committing suicide they will do it with or without a gun.  If a gun is not available they will choose some other way. 

 

A gun is a tool.  For someone who likes to shoot targets or plink cans it becomes a tool for enjoying a few afternoons.  If someone is a hunter it is one of the tools available to bring food home for his/her family.  For someone in a dangerous area guns become a tool for self protection.

 

Nonsense.

 

A gun in the house dramatically increases the likelihood of death by suicide. IE; Far more women attempt suicide than men, about 4 times more men succeed at suicide because they use guns.

SEE http://www.womenshealth.gov/mens-health/top-health-concerns-for-men/suicide.html

 

I don't know of many homes that don't have knives, but there are many less suicides using knives than using gun.

[ERayR 5,897]

Nonsense.

 

A gun in the house dramatically increases the likelihood of death by suicide. IE; Far more women attempt suicide than men, about 4 times more men succeed at suicide because they use guns.

SEE http://www.womenshealth.gov/mens-health/top-health-concerns-for-men/suicide.html

 

I don't know of many homes that don't have knives, but there are many less suicides using knives than using gun.

 

Nonsense. 

 

Take away the availability of guns and other methods become more prevalent.  With your reasoning there should not be any suicide in places where guns are banned.

[Stargazer 5,318]

"I guess I have never understood this attitude"

It was in the air where I grew up. I've seen too many shows that have kids accidentally shooting each other. It is almost pure emotion now since I know precautions can remove everything I am concerned about. There is more likely danger from all the various drugs we have around the house than a dozen guns, but I am content with those with just a safety latch on my door while my husband and daughter just leave theirs out.

I keep meaning to buy a drug safe at Ikea but never remember when we are there.

 

When kids shoot each other accidentally of course it is tragic and the tragedy gains notice.  This notice makes us think that this is a very common occurrence, but a look at statistics show that it is very rare. 

 

Once we started having guns in the house, we discovered that a few of our kids had sneaked (snuck?) into our bedroom to marvel over the weapons and the ammo.  This was because it was seen as secret, and mysterious, and therefore an object of curiosity.  I then took the boys who had been doing the sneaking out to the gravel pit and gave them instruction on the weapons, how to safely use them, what the dangers were, and allowed them to shoot up several boxes of ammo.  After this there was no more mystery, and no more clandestine trips to marvel over the guns and ammo.  Periodically, one or more of them would ask me if we could go out shooting, and so we did.  It was a nice little family activity.  Now that they are all adults, a couple of them own their own guns, and others don't because they don't care about it.  The two girls never cared much about it, although one of them has recently decided she wants a concealed carry permit, and I've promised to give her her mother's pistol once she gets the permit.  I will make sure she understands gun safety and the responsibility of carrying a deadly weapon before I give it to her, of course.

[Stargazer 5,318]

Nonsense.

 

A gun in the house dramatically increases the likelihood of death by suicide. IE; Far more women attempt suicide than men, about 4 times more men succeed at suicide because they use guns.

SEE http://www.womenshealth.gov/mens-health/top-health-concerns-for-men/suicide.html

 

I don't know of many homes that don't have knives, but there are many less suicides using knives than using gun.

 

Your argument is easily shattered.

 

Japan has an extremely high rate of suicide, and indeed, it is men who most often succeed at it.  But guns are not to blame, because private gun ownership in Japan is very rare (because outlawed).  Those who are intent upon suicide find a way.  This is irrespective of gun availability, and has more to do with the culture.  Here is an interesting chart of the suicide rates in seven industrialized societies over the period 1960-2005:

 

Note that the United States, with more guns in private ownership than there are people, ranks consistently towards the low range. Japan, with hardly any guns, is in the higher and highest range. New Zealand, also with strict gun laws, is better off than Japan, but still worse than the United States. I find it interesting that Switzerland, which doesn't have an army because it IS an army, has such a high suicide rate -- but I don't know if guns are the tool of choice there or not.

The indelible rule is this: correlation is not causation. You can say that the availability of a gun might make it easier to kill yourself, but the gun isn't the cause of the suicide, and removing the guns does not seem to stop the suicides.

In our city we have a bridge that goes over Interstate 5, about 150 feet above the freeway. Every year three or four people would use the bridge to kill themselves. At great expense, the DOT increased the height of the fence along the bridge, and made it very difficult to find purchase for one's feet to climb the fense. The result was no more suicides off that bridge. So those intent on killing themselves found other ways.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Stargazer

[hagoth7 588]

Hagoth, Your sig video is causing technical problems for me reading threads...could you please not embed it and just have a link or someting to direct to it. Thanks.

Gladly.

[Calm 33,412]

Thank you very much.