Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JAHS

Catholic Groups Told To Sever Ties With Bsa

Recommended Posts

"A US bishop told Catholic parishes, schools and institutions they must cut ties with the Boy Scouts of America because of the organisation’s decision to allow openly gay troop leaders and employees to serve in their ranks at the national level."

 

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2015/08/11/us-bishops-tells-catholic-groups-to-sever-ties-with-boy-scouts/

 

 

Will the LDS Church follow their lead? 

Share this post


Link to post

It is very possible that the Church comes to the same conclusion the Catholics have.  This has been percolating for some time now. Regardless of what happens, the youth will be fine and the Church will have programs that attempt to instruct, guide, and assist in making each one of them a better person and overcome their individual problems. 

Share this post


Link to post

No, but the CoJCoL-dS may decide to also sever their BSA ties, or they may not.  Whatever the decision of the Brethren, it will not be to follow others.

Share this post


Link to post

No, but the CoJCoL-dS may decide to also sever their BSA ties, or they may not.  Whatever the decision of the Brethren, it will not be to follow others.

Agreed, but it might make it a little easier should they decide to discontinue the BSA program.

Share this post


Link to post

It's my understanding that the bishop's letter only applies to parishes and institutions in his particular diocese and covers around 180 scouts.  It wouldn't surprise me if this was something not coordinated with anyone outside of the diocese.

Share this post


Link to post

It's my understanding that the bishop's letter only applies to parishes and institutions in his particular diocese and covers around 180 scouts.  It wouldn't surprise me if this was something not coordinated with anyone outside of the diocese.

I wonder what the Pope would have to say about this action? Or does the Catholic Church allow more automony on such issues compared to the LDS church?

Share this post


Link to post

As a mother to a cub scout and scout, i secretly have my fingers crossed that the church gets out of the program.  My husband is a convert and never did scouts and i had no brothers so scouts is like this foreign country that we are forced to navigate thru and exist in, even though we never wanted to visit in the first place.

 

I feel like the time investiture into scouts, as well as the mental stress of it all, is not worth the payout.  Being an eagle scout really doesn't mean anything anymore (most LDS scout troops don't take the whole program as seriously as it's supposed to be anyway) and no one cares outside of the LDS community whether or not you are one.

 

Just my two cents...

Share this post


Link to post

"no one cares outside of the LDS community whether or not you are one."

The military still does, but given the percentage of LDS who serve in it probably not worth that alone.

Share this post


Link to post

"no one cares outside of the LDS community whether or not you are one."

The military still does, but given the percentage of LDS who serve in it probably not worth that alone.

 

That's interesting! What perks does the military give for being an eagle scout?

Share this post


Link to post

As a mother to a cub scout and scout, i secretly have my fingers crossed that the church gets out of the program.  My husband is a convert and never did scouts and i had no brothers so scouts is like this foreign country that we are forced to navigate thru and exist in, even though we never wanted to visit in the first place.

 

I feel like the time investiture into scouts, as well as the mental stress of it all, is not worth the payout.  Being an eagle scout really doesn't mean anything anymore (most LDS scout troops don't take the whole program as seriously as it's supposed to be anyway) and no one cares outside of the LDS community whether or not you are one.

 

Just my two cents...

 

Don't forget the expense.  And oh didn't you realize that Eagle was an Aaronic priesthood office.

Share this post


Link to post

That's interesting! What perks does the military give for being an eagle scout?

You get to start out one rank higher.  When my husband joined the Air Force, he was an E-2 instead of an E-1, so slightly higher pay. His current boss also said his Eagle and his military experience gave him the edge when they narrowed it down to three people.  153 people applied for his maintenance job.  As annoyed as I get with Scouting, I'm very grateful he had that experience. 

Share this post


Link to post

You get to start out one rank higher.  When my husband joined the Air Force, he was an E-2 instead of an E-1, so slightly higher pay. His current boss also said his Eagle and his military experience gave him the edge when they narrowed it down to three people.  153 people applied for his maintenance job.  As annoyed as I get with Scouting, I'm very grateful he had that experience. 

 

That is really great.

 

I've done some research in the past and it did say that if the person who is doing the hiring/reading the resumes is an eagle scout that it can definitely help you.  Unfortunately it also said that if they aren't it can hinder the process because the person will assume you just didn't have anything else job related to brag about.  

 

So yeah, basically completely unhelpful and contradictory advice, just like pretty much all job resume advice.  :D  That's really awesome that it helped your hubby though.  I have a feeling it would probably help younger boys trying to get a job in high school or college too, especially in less-LDS centric areas.  I do recognize that it has value.  I just won't cry if we get rid of it.

Share this post


Link to post

That is really great.

 

I've done some research in the past and it did say that if the person who is doing the hiring/reading the resumes is an eagle scout that it can definitely help you.  Unfortunately it also said that if they aren't it can hinder the process because the person will assume you just didn't have anything else job related to brag about.  

 

So yeah, basically completely unhelpful and contradictory advice, just like pretty much all job resume advice.   :D  That's really awesome that it helped your hubby though.  I have a feeling it would probably help younger boys trying to get a job in high school or college too, especially in less-LDS centric areas.  I do recognize that it has value.  I just won't cry if we get rid of it.

I've always wondered if there is some kind of equivalent that would give a woman a higher rank. 

Share this post


Link to post

I wonder what the Pope would have to say about this action?

 

"What's the BSA?"

Share this post


Link to post

As a mother to a cub scout and scout, i secretly have my fingers crossed that the church gets out of the program.  My husband is a convert and never did scouts and i had no brothers so scouts is like this foreign country that we are forced to navigate thru and exist in, even though we never wanted to visit in the first place.

 

I feel like the time investiture into scouts, as well as the mental stress of it all, is not worth the payout.  Being an eagle scout really doesn't mean anything anymore (most LDS scout troops don't take the whole program as seriously as it's supposed to be anyway) and no one cares outside of the LDS community whether or not you are one.

 

Just my two cents...

I also secretly hope they cut ties just so that we can stand our ground on this matter - this whole issue on homosexuality is forcing us to stand out and I think the other groups are also eager to hear what the brethren decide. However, I don't see how we can pull out of it because they allow us to only employ leaders that have the same values as us so if we did pull out it would further brandish us and light of our recent efforts at transparency it will paint an unfavourable picture in the public eye.

Share this post


Link to post

Just to keep some perspective..."Catholic groups" in this instance, is confined to the diocese of Bismarck, North Dakota. This is not the Catholic Church speaking, or even two "groups" within the Catholic Church. It is a tiny "group". This bishop is in the American outback, if you will, and I wouldn't expect any support from his fellow American bishops in populated regions. I would expect that most of the bishops of the Catholic Church in America would applaud this move by the Boy Scouts of America. 

Edited by 3DOP

Share this post


Link to post

"What's the BSA?"

 

It's a brand of motorcycle.  I used to own one when I lived in England.  It was a 175cc two-stroke that I drove everywhere.  Sweet bike.  "BSA" stood for Birmington Small Arms, and they originally made pistols and rifles, but later diversified.

Share this post


Link to post

Just to keep some perspective..."Catholic groups" in this instance, is confined to the diocese of Bismarck, North Dakota. This is not the Catholic Church speaking, or even two "groups" within the Catholic Church. It is a tiny "group". This bishop is in the American outback, if you will, and I wouldn't expect any support from his fellow American bishops in populated regions. I would expect that most of the bishops of the Catholic Church in America would applaud this move by the Boy Scouts of America. 

I will ask you the same question I asked earlier, would the Pope approve of this move, or would he even make any comment one way or ther other about it?

Share this post


Link to post

I will ask you the same question I asked earlier, would the Pope approve of this move, or would he even make any comment one way or ther other about it?

 

JAHS...hi. I think the bishop of Bismarck will be flying alone on this mission.

 

I doubt if the former bishop of Buenos Aires is familiar with the Boy Scouts of America, but if he is, I would be shocked if Pope Francis concurred with the bishop of Bismarck on this question.

Share this post


Link to post

JAHS...hi. I think the bishop of Bismarck will be flying alone on this mission.

 

I doubt if the former bishop of Buenos Aires is familiar with the Boy Scouts of America, but if he is, I would be shocked if Pope Francis concurred with the bishop of Bismarck on this question.

OK.. I guess there isn't the same strict chain of command in the Catholic church as there is in the LDS Church.  A stake president would probably not decide something like this on his own unless getting the OK from higher ups. 

Share this post


Link to post

OK.. I guess there isn't the same strict chain of command in the Catholic church as there is in the LDS Church.  A stake president would probably not decide something like this on his own unless getting the OK from higher ups. 

 

Most bishops will wait to see what the bishops conference says. In this case, it would be the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). Historically, the bishop is the spiritual pastor of any given geographical area. He will give an account to God for the rule of his children. From my understanding of Catholic teaching, regardless of what some modern bishops conference says, the bishop remains accountable for what he teaches his children. I applaud the bishop of Bismarck for his courage. But as I suggested, I think the majority of US bishops will oppose him, strenuously and wrongly. Catholic Tradition opposes the teaching that faith and morals are decided according to democratic principles. The bishops conferences don't seem to recognize that.

Edited by 3DOP

Share this post


Link to post

"First Baptist Church of Conyers leaving Boy Scouts after gay ban lifted."

 

CONYERS- After a ten year partnership, the First Baptist Church of Conyers will be ending its relationship with the Boy Scouts of America (BSA).
The decision to part ways comes in the wake of the Boys Scouts of America national executive board voting to end its national restriction on openly gay adult leaders and employees. 

The church felt like the “next step” for the BSA would be to allow openly gay adults to serve as scout leader and volunteers, says Beall.  The church feels like this is “unbiblical” and doesn’t match its values."

 

http://www.rockdalenews.com/section/1/article/22626/

Share this post


Link to post

"Poll: Majority of Utah Mormons Want LDS Church to Leave the Boy Scouts"

 

"Nearly two-thirds of “very active” Utah members of the LDS Church believe their church leaders should separate from the Boy Scouts and start a new male youth organization, a UtahPolicy survey shows."

 

http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/features/today-at-utah-policy/6694-poll-majority-of-utah-mormons-want-lds-church-to-leave-the-boy-scouts

Share this post


Link to post

Did you all notice they didn't properly "quote" what the LDS Church said in that article at the end?

 

They added the word "Mormon" to our quote, not using proper rules to show changes to a quote.

 

 

 

Despite that provision, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is the largest sponsor of Scout troops in the country, said in a statement posted on July 27 on its website that it was evaluating its continued association with the Boy Scouts.

 

“The LDS Church has always welcomed all boys to its Scouting units regardless of sexual orientation. However, the admission of openly gay leaders is inconsistent with the doctrines of the Mormon Church and what have traditionally been the values of the Boy Scouts of America,” the Church said.

 

 

Here's the actual quote by the Church....

 

 

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is deeply troubled by today’s vote by the Boy Scouts of America National Executive Board. In spite of a request to delay the vote, it was scheduled at a time in July when members of the Church’s governing councils are out of their offices and do not meet. When the leadership of the Church resumes its regular schedule of meetings in August, the century-long association with Scouting will need to be examined. The Church has always welcomed all boys to its Scouting units regardless of sexual orientation. However, the admission of openly gay leaders is inconsistent with the doctrines of the Church and what have traditionally been the values of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

As a global organization with members in 170 countries, the Church has long been evaluating the limitations that fully one-half of its youth face where Scouting is not available. Those worldwide needs combined with this vote by the BSA National Executive Board will be carefully reviewed by the leaders of the Church in the weeks ahead.”

 

Other Churches are so paranoid to not allow mormons to even call ourselves "the Church" that they have to add the word Mormon.

Of course, if they want to be that **** that's fine, but at least they should have had the decency of using proper quote editing techniques.

They made it look like we called ourselves the "Mormon Church".  That's not being honest.

Edited by williamsmith

Share this post


Link to post
Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By blueglass
      Continuing Scouts through 2019 will be challenging.  
      As an Eagle scout who earned 3 palms, and enjoyed (mostly) the program, I am disappointed on how many scandals have sullied the boy scouts brand as an organization of volunteers doing service for others.  Scouts helped boys get out of their digital caves and into the wild.  Scouts helped young men explore different careers by fulfilling merit badge requirements.  Scouts helped prepare our young men for emergencies through First Aid, Emergency medicine, CPR training.  Scouts helped young men learn to lead, direct, and plan activities, excursions, camps, projects, and trips when administered properly (Youth led, leader supported).  I have two young sons 14 and 8 and as a family we're looking for alternate volunteer groups, youth service organizations to replace the dying BSA program right now rather than treading water through 2019.
      During the friends of scouting drive in Feb of this year our bishop's counselor a true blue scouting apologist replaced the 3rd hour EQ/Relief Society meetings with videos promoting a friends of scouting fundraising push.  Enthusiasm was a bit muted especially from the relief society presidency.  Nonetheless I am forever thankful for the service of my leaders as a young man, and have enjoyed volunteering when I can.  
      Anyone have insight on the new YM program to roll out in the next 12 months?  2020?  If you were to design a program to replace BSA what would it look like?    Teancum's Special Forces?  (TSF)? 
    • By RegularMormon
      News Article: New President Robert Gates: I would have allowed gay men in Boy Scouts
       
      Considering this article and the latest decision to allow gay youth in scouting but ban adult leaders; I would be interested in everyone's insight, thoughts or concern should there ever be a decision in the future to allow adult gay leaders with the BSA and if this would be the "breaking point" so to speak for the LDS church to "pull out"?   I've been involved in scouting since youth and would greatly sadden me but at the same time I've always worried there would be a day when something like this would come and my concern on how members (even myself) would respond.  I know this is all hypothetical but through the years I've always came across at least a handful of members who have no interest or even oppose scouting in the church for various reasons. TBH when the new "Duty to God" program rolled out with the young men I thought to myself this might be a replacement; but that's the suspicious side of me thinking lol.  Thoughts?
    • By RegularMormon
      Since I can always remember the local stake leaders have always encouraged scout leaders to get trained by their local BSA council/district. The problem we face In our area (midwest) however is the training is over two days which always land on Sat/Sun. So we can't follow the direction from our leaders and it becomes frustrating. I've just dropped the issue for several years until recently having been called back into the scouting program I've obviously brought the issue back up.
      Reading the LDS Scout Handbook: (Page 1) states...
      2.1 Ongoing Training
      Stake Young Men and Primary presidencies also offer ongoing training and support for ward Young Men, Primary, and Scouting leaders. In addition, the BSA provides monthly roundtables to help leaders learn Scouting methods and skills; it also offers a variety of optional training courses such as Wood Badge, the Trainer’s EDGE, and others. Stake and ward budget allowance funds may be used for adult Scouting training.Training courses that require overnight activities should not be attended by mixed groups of adult men and women unless both genders have appropriate sleeping and personal care arrangements that are not in immediate proximity to each other. Where possible, leaders should attend training offered on days other than Sunday
      To me, the last sentence leaves some wiggle room for areas like ours, do you agree?
      I've not brought it up with anyone, just been reading the manual and looking for ways I can get trained. It's been this way for at least 20+ years in our area, the local council only offer these type of training on Sat/Sun. I'm sure in Utah and areas with more LDS population there are more options?
    • By BCSpace
      Of course the Church had taken a neutral position consistent with (unchanged) doctrine and was ready to roll with which ever way it went.
×
×
  • Create New...