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Stone holm

Npr Is Doing A Series On Faith And Environmentalism

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I agree, although I also think we could probably slow down our lifestyle a wee bit. The subsistence lifestyle and the self sufficient lifestyle do have some social rewards lacking in our current atomistic frenzy. We might have to consider a separation, if not a divorce, from free market capitalism and Modern Christianity though.

 

I like my modern lifestyle. I think what we need to is re-devote our considerable technological abilities to getting even more efficiency out of our consumer products. IE; Over the last several years my family has reduced by about half of the resources it did prior to then. We still have a higher middle class lifestyle. Just recently I've committed my family to producing nearly all of our own electricity by solar electric cells, and use the grid as a battery when I can't.

 

I've never been a fan of Laisset-Faire Capitalism. I am in favor of well regulated Capitalism.  Modern Christianity has become a sad clown house reflection of its former teachings. As a rather infamous being said: "You can buy anything in this world with money".

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I like my modern lifestyle. I think what we need to is re-devote our considerable technological abilities to getting even more efficiency out of our consumer products. IE; Over the last several years my family has reduced by about half of the resources it did prior to then. We still have a higher middle class lifestyle. Just recently I've committed my family to producing nearly all of our own electricity by solar electric cells, and use the grid as a battery when I can't.

 

I've never been a fan of Laisset-Faire Capitalism. I am in favor of well regulated Capitalism.  Modern Christianity has become a sad clown house reflection of its former teachings. As a rather infamous being said: "You can buy anything in this world with money".

 

Not opposed to technology -- am not a Luddite.  On the other hand, am not sure that all of our gadgetry is all that beneficial.  I once had this discussion with a cousin of mine and he said, well you know the cities had a major problem with horse manure prior to the advent of the automobile.  Course prior to Hiroshima we didn't worry that much about the possible impact of radioactive waste -- we tend to create additional problems as we come up with technological solutions.  At some point we may manage to invent a technological solution that kills us all, and I suspect that is going to bring the 2nd Coming rather than SSM....but I seem to be in the minority in that belief in some crowds.

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Not opposed to technology -- am not a Luddite.  On the other hand, am not sure that all of our gadgetry is all that beneficial.  I once had this discussion with a cousin of mine and he said, well you know the cities had a major problem with horse manure prior to the advent of the automobile.  Course prior to Hiroshima we didn't worry that much about the possible impact of radioactive waste -- we tend to create additional problems as we come up with technological solutions.  At some point we may manage to invent a technological solution that kills us all, and I suspect that is going to bring the 2nd Coming rather than SSM....but I seem to be in the minority in that belief in some crowds.

 

While our technology has changed considerably our morality is still stuck in the Stone Age.

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While our technology has changed considerably our morality is still stuck in the Stone Age.

 

Well, in some geographical and specific groups yes, but otherwise we have actually seen a massive improvement in morality other than sexual morality.  As Churches and Faiths age, they seem to all go through an era of fundamentalism which becomes antagonistic to science (not necessarily technology).   For example Islam was for generations the hotbed of relatively open thinking and scientific advance, while Christianity was experiencing the Inquisition, Evangelicals were for a period a hotbed for social improvement and advancement then they became the opposite,  Mormonism went through a period of radical economic change and engaged in all kinds of experimental activities, but is now teetering on the edge of becoming anti-intellectual, anti-secular, and anti-reform.  Normally, that type of behavior sets in when groups have leadership that shut out input and discussion of significant issues.

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I tend to be rather pessimistic when it comes to human morality. Most often it is two steps forwards then two steps back. Just our ability to do greater damage changes.

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I tend to be rather pessimistic when it comes to human morality. Most often it is two steps forwards then two steps back. Just our ability to do greater damage changes.

 

Well, I think we tend to be more thoughtful before killing people than we used to be and that counts for something, and we generally are less racist and sexist, and we try to take better care of our poor and ill (although that might be taking a backslide from Clinton onward).  I realize I am being American-ocentric here.

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A study has shown that coal pollution in India results in 80,000 to 115,000 premature deaths every year and this statistic is expected to rise to 1.5 million if we continue on our current path. 

 

Coal power plants contaminate the environment, the church doesn't like pollution. 

 

PS One of the worst climate ironies is that the poorest nations, which contribute the least to the problem, will tend to be the most impacted by human-caused climate change. At least rich countries (USA and China) should stop burning so much coal. 

 

This being one of your favorite topics, I hate to tell you what I think is going to happen, but I will anyway: we are doomed.  The only way to save the world is to have a worldwide totalitarian government that puts a lock on every coal mine, uranium deposit, and nonrenewable energy supply that exists.  Nobody will be allowed to burn wood or coal or use radioactives for heat or cooking, and nobody will be allowed to dig ores out of the ground and process it into metals either.  The totalitarian government will also have to put a strict limit on human reproduction, too, with only one child per couple, enforced worldwide, and make that stick for at least five generations.  And if you want to cook your food, well, just put it out into the sunlight and let the sun cook it.  What?  The sun doesn't get it hot enough?  Just eat it cold, then.

 

It may sound like I am mocking or joking, but I am NOT.  Not really.  There is no way to stop what is happening.  The system is too large and too distributed, and people are far and away too obstreperous to stop polluting on the scale necessary.

 

Our only choice is to determine what will happen and how to meet it when it happens. 

 

Now, I happen to think that we could build massive spaceships to scoop hydrogen gas from Jupiter's atmosphere and bring it here for energy production (you know, fuel cells), we could Save the Planet.  But this would require about 20-30 years to build sufficient spacecraft to do the job, and we'd have to start NOW.  But again, fat freaking chance.  Not enough unity in this world, so... Totalitarian World State or Bust.  Something I am vehemently against -- unless they let me be the Dictator for Life. 

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It may sound like I am mocking or joking, but I am NOT.  Not really.  There is no way to stop what is happening.  The system is too large and too distributed, and people are far and away too obstreperous to stop polluting on the scale necessary. 

 

It helps if people stop being "skeptical" about it. 

 

 

Now, I happen to think that we could build massive spaceships to scoop hydrogen gas from Jupiter's atmosphere and bring it here for energy production (you know, fuel cells), we could Save the Planet.  But this would require about 20-30 years to build sufficient spacecraft to do the job, and we'd have to start NOW.  

 

Or we can invest more in scientific research. Nuclear fusion is the Holy Grail of energy, offering the possibility of limitless clean energy through harnessing the very same nuclear reaction that keeps our Sun burning, so we need more scientists and more scientific research 

 

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102729780

 

there are other solutions too 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/renewable-energy-is-too-expensive.htm

http://skepticalscience.com/putting-an-end-to-renewable-energy-too-expensive-myth.html

 

 

This being one of your favorite topics, I hate to tell you what I think is going to happen, but I will anyway: we are doomed.  The only way to save the world is to have a worldwide totalitarian government that puts a lock on every coal mine, uranium deposit, and nonrenewable energy supply that exists.

 

If the USA and China stop burning so much coal, that should be significant and will help a lot. 

Edited by TheSkepticChristian

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This being one of your favorite topics, I hate to tell you what I think is going to happen, but I will anyway: we are doomed.  The only way to save the world is to have a worldwide totalitarian government that puts a lock on every coal mine, uranium deposit, and nonrenewable energy supply that exists.  Nobody will be allowed to burn wood or coal or use radioactives for heat or cooking, and nobody will be allowed to dig ores out of the ground and process it into metals either.  The totalitarian government will also have to put a strict limit on human reproduction, too, with only one child per couple, enforced worldwide, and make that stick for at least five generations.  And if you want to cook your food, well, just put it out into the sunlight and let the sun cook it.  What?  The sun doesn't get it hot enough?  Just eat it cold, then.

 

It may sound like I am mocking or joking, but I am NOT.  Not really.  There is no way to stop what is happening.  The system is too large and too distributed, and people are far and away too obstreperous to stop polluting on the scale necessary.

 

Our only choice is to determine what will happen and how to meet it when it happens. 

 

Now, I happen to think that we could build massive spaceships to scoop hydrogen gas from Jupiter's atmosphere and bring it here for energy production (you know, fuel cells), we could Save the Planet.  But this would require about 20-30 years to build sufficient spacecraft to do the job, and we'd have to start NOW.  But again, fat freaking chance.  Not enough unity in this world, so... Totalitarian World State or Bust.  Something I am vehemently against -- unless they let me be the Dictator for Life. 

 

Non Sequitur.

 

Coal is a useful product. We use it in the production of some medicines, and some consumer products like steel. Burning it to produce electricity is not a wise use of coal. Same with oil, gas, and radioactive element deposit. Metals are essentially infinitely recyclable. Throwing them into a landfill is a waste of resources, and money. Even some plastics are recyclable. IE: It takes about five plastic milk jugs to make a mans suit. Why throw good money away? 

 

As I have said before my family has reduced our consumption of non-renewable resources by almost half over the last 7 years or so. We just purchased a solar electric array for our home. So anticipate reducing our grid electric use by over 90%. We still live a higher middle class life style. We even have a solar oven. Anything that requires a long cooking time is an ideal match for it.

 

I doubt it would take five generations to achieve a stable population. Japan is already experiencing a negative population growth in about 2-3 generations. All without the need for governmental intervention. Experience has shown the best least restrictive means of birth control is the education of women. With the  better eduction of women they have fewer children on average, and those children have better survival chances.

 

Eventually we will have to leave this planet. But that is a LONG ways into the future. I think a more immediate solution is to make our lives on this planet as nice as possible in the mean time.

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and nothing about religion and the environment. Most LDS are just worried about gay marriage.

 

Please post what you base this assessment on.

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It takes about five plastic milk jugs to make a mans suit. Why throw good money away?

 

 

They are a little uncomfortable and I don't really like the see through effect of my pants.

Edited by ERayR

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It takes about five plastic milk jugs to make a mans suit. Why throw good money away?

 

 

They are a little uncomfortable and I don't really like the see through effect of my pants.

 

 

I'm old enough to have had a leisure suit. UGGH. :lol: Nowadays my suits are wool, another non petrochemical product.  ;) 

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While our technology has changed considerably our morality is still stuck in the Stone Age.

 

There is a new claim that Earth will experience a little ice age in 15 years because of the solar activity. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/mini-ice-age-coming-in-next-fifteen-years-new-model-of-the-suns-cycle-shows-10382400.html

 

Let's see if the new theory survives scientific scrutiny. GW theory has survived for decades. 

 

Many will be quick (without skepticism) to use this unconfirmed hypothesis against GW

Edited by TheSkepticChristian

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Actually we probably would be experiencing slight cooling except that we keep dumping more and more CO2 into the environment and that offsets any such cooling.

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Actually we probably would be experiencing slight cooling except that we keep dumping more and more CO2 into the environment and that offsets any such cooling.

 

:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl: 

 

OH, Oh you were serious.

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:rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

 

OH, Oh you were serious.

 

In fact, a number of independent measurements of solar activity indicate the sun has shown a slight cooling trend since 1960, over the same period that global temperatures have been warming

 

Solar_vs_temp_500.jpg

Edited by TheSkepticChristian

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It's that sciency thing some here don't want to understand. ;)

Figures don't lie but liars sometimes figure.

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What did I just say about partisan news articles? Please don't accuse of of dismissing stuff, I am simply skeptical because your article

1. quoted NASA out of context

2. is just cherry picking and shooting arrows before drawing the target 

3. all climate researchers agree 1934 was one of the hottest years in the USA, there is no need to deny that.  

 

So who are your honest climate researchers? At least give me some nonpartisan news articles

 

PS Christopher Booker is not a climate researcher, and now your are going to accuse me of being elitist.

I am not elitist, I simply take the people that do their homework seriously  

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What did I just say about partisan news articles? Please don't accuse of of dismissing stuff, I am simply skeptical because your article

1. quoted NASA out of context

2. is just cherry picking and shooting arrows before drawing the target 

3. all climate researchers agree 1934 was one of the hottest years in the USA, there is no need to deny that.  

 

So who are your honest climate researchers? At least give me some nonpartisan news articles

 

PS Christopher Booker is not a climate researcher, and now your are going to accuse me of being elitist.

I am not elitist, I simply take the people that do their homework seriously  

 

Yes honorable father, Si patron, your highness, honorable mentor and benefactor of great wisdom.  I shall take 40 lashes with a wet noodle. Is there anything else this lowly worm can do to restore your favor?  

 

Old adage: You can lead a jackass to water but you can't make him drink.

Oh well I tried.

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Oh well I tried.

 

There is no point to have a conversation with you because you are always right. 

 

 

 

Edited by TheSkepticChristian

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It's that sciency thing some here don't want to understand. ;)

 

70% of senior adults (65+ years) are skeptical of AGW. 

Only 40% of young adults (18-29 years) are skeptical 

See the age section 

http://www.pewinternet.org/interactives/public-scientists-opinion-gap/

 

it is clear that the wise are sometimes too wise and are never wrong

Edited by TheSkepticChristian

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