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Stone holm

Abstinence Until Marriage

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So at what point is it proper to explain to Bristol Palin the existence of the birth control pill, and what compensation should be given to the parents of teenage girls whose schools were only allowed to teach abstinence?

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She knows she did something stupid. She's not claiming otherwise. Let's not cast any stones at her if we can help it.

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Normally, I would agree with you. But in this case she has been out preaching abstinence as the only policy. Doing so, I suppose is okay as a religious principle. The problem is that such tends to get lost in the rush of hormones especially amongst teenagers. So perhaps we need to start having a serious discussion about the subject. Which is more important preserving virginity or chastity, or preventing unwanted pregnancies. If preserving virginity or chastity is more important is that because of our religious beliefs, or because of STDs? Which is the greater strain on society and the general good lack of chastity or unwanted pregnancies? How one answers these questions makes a difference as to how someone who has entered the public spotlight voluntarily should be treated.

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I think we can cut through these complicated questions if we just started stoning people again.

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And in other groundbreaking news, Stone holm avers that we're all hypocrites. :lazy:

 

:blink::shok:

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I think Bristol Palin is like many of us.  She believes that abstinence is the proper teaching, but was tempted by her passions.  Many people that look at pornography believe it is wrong and are overcome by the temptation.  People with addictions often sit there and beat themselves up over the fact that they are sinning or doing the wrong thing over and over again.  Even Paul talked about knowing not to sin, but doing it any way.  It also must be hard living in the spotlight with people continually watching you.  I would`t what to have to do that.  

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So let me get this straight, Palin should be castigated because she has demonstrated that she is not perfect and is a sinner.  Further, because all are sinners there can be no ideals and we should never teach others to be virtuous.  In addition, we should live in fear of failing, sinning, and therefore we should abandon all hope and just sin; is that what you are recommending?

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And in other groundbreaking news, Stone holm avers that we're all hypocrites. :lazy:

:blink::shok:

3

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So let me get this straight, Palin should be castigated because she has demonstrated that she is not perfect and is a sinner.  Further, because all are sinners there can be no ideals and we should never teach others to be virtuous.  In addition, we should live in fear of failing, sinning, and therefore we should abandon all hope and just sin; is that what you are recommending?

 

Sounds good to me.

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Who cares? She had sex and got pregnant again. There's nothing to be learned from this. Let her live her life.

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Normally, I would agree with you. But in this case she has been out preaching abstinence as the only policy. Doing so, I suppose is okay as a religious principle. The problem is that such tends to get lost in the rush of hormones especially amongst teenagers. So perhaps we need to start having a serious discussion about the subject. Which is more important preserving virginity or chastity, or preventing unwanted pregnancies. If preserving virginity or chastity is more important is that because of our religious beliefs, or because of STDs? Which is the greater strain on society and the general good lack of chastity or unwanted pregnancies? How one answers these questions makes a difference as to how someone who has entered the public spotlight voluntarily should be treated.

I'm really not sure of your point.

It was not the teaching of abstinence instead of safe sex that has gotten Bristol into this predicament. My guess is that she was less than careful in her relationship with her fiancé, thinking that since she was getting married very soon getting pregnant would not be a disaster. Obviously calling the wedding off a few days before it happened has changed the consequences of that choice (barring a failed contraceptive I guess).

And of course that is if he is the father. She has not confirmed that and she doesn't owe us that information anyway.

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It is a very strange thing what people can convince themselves about sexual relations, despite religious convictions.

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It is a very strange thing what people can convince themselves about sexual relations, despite religious convictions.

Perhaps.  We live in a fallen world, with an Adversary working overtime to attempt to convince us that there will be no harmful consequences to the choices he works so hard to entice us to make.  While that particular enticement is a useful tool and has ensnared many, it may not be a person's Achilles heel, but the Adversary has much more than that lone tool in his toolbox.  If it isn't that, it'll be something else, which is why I try very hard, to use President Uchtdorf's memorable phrase, to not judge people who sin differently than I do, and to use the approach, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner," rather than, "Dear Lord, I thank thee that I am not as other men and women."  Further complicating matters with respect to sexual morality is the fact that intimacy, used properly, is God's very essence, as it allows us, in concert with another, to participate with Him in the creative process. 

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It is a very strange thing what people can convince themselves about sexual relations, despite religious convictions.

We all justify our sins. If we didn't, we would be sinless.

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We all justify our sins. If we didn't, we would be sinless.

I try to skip the justifying stage. It just multiplies the sin with self-deception. Better to just say I am doing this because I want to.

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Well she had a 6 figure ride as the abstinence advocate, good while it lasted. So no one wants to discuss the relative harm?

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Stone, what is the harm to which you are alluding?

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Various spikes in teenage pregnancies.

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SH, I think your concern is a little misplaced. Despite her advocacy, Ms. Palin clearly knew about contraceptive and could have obtained it. Your ire is better aimed at situations where girls got pregnant who were not as well equipped to avoid that outcome because of abstinence-only training that was supported by Ms. Palin.

 

ETA: But I do appreciate the irony of the situation too. Kind of like how all the guys who played the "Marlboro man" died of cancer.

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Well she had a 6 figure ride as the abstinence advocate, good while it lasted. So no one wants to discuss the relative harm?

 

You can talk about the harm, but that's a separate issue than her second pregnancy.  Surely you don't believe that it was an abstinence only program that caused her to get pregnant a second time?

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No tabloid topics.

 

Skylla

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