The Mark Of The Beast

[teddyaware]

I remember reading the Left Behind series by Jenkins and LaHaye back in high school. The booked touted paranoia over the "signs of the times" and the other silliness on the subject. Let's worry in 250,000 years when God stops the first trumpet, face palms and goes to have a beer.

 

And it's certain when the "day of the Lord" is near (whether it be sooner or later) there will be many millions in that day who will say those who are warning the people of the world that the end is nigh are just a bunch of silly paranoids and that the Second Coming won't happen for at least 250,000 years, if it is ever to happen at all. And that's why, as the Saviour said, when the Second Coming does happen it will take most of the world by surprise.

[The Nehor]

I remember reading the Left Behind series by Jenkins and LaHaye back in high school. The booked touted paranoia over the "signs of the times" and the other silliness on the subject. Let's worry in 250,000 years when God stops the first trumpet, face palms and goes to have a beer.

Those books......I assumed end-timer nuts were well-meaning good people who genuinely cared and the evidence points to the "scared straight" crowd once being genuinely concerned about the souls of those around them. The the Lehaye and Jenkins books show up with the moral depth of your average "prosperity gospel" believer. Their heroes are repulsive. Their sinners are so gutless and feeble you can't even hate them. Satan is the big bully until Jesus the bigger bully shows up to pound him. The winners are those who picked the right side in the war and not those dedicated to virtue. With a background of plagues, mass disappearances including all children, demon monsters from hell, and wars the characters are largely unaffected as if the basic changes to society, the economy, and everything else just do not ruin their going out to a restaurant. I think the silliest scene I remember was when World War 3 breaks out and missiles are being fired and American militia groups are rising against the Anti-Christ and one of the heroes wanders into a dealership not far from the carnage to haggle aggressively for an armored SUV as if people would sit at their jobs when the news is announcing nuclear hits nearby. Soooooo stupid.....so morally bankrupt.

[The Nehor]

And it's certain when the "day of the Lord" is near (whether it be sooner or later) there will be many millions in that day who will say those who are warning the people of the world that the end is nigh are just a bunch of silly paranoids and that the Second Coming won't happen for at least 250,000 years, if it is ever to happen at all. And that's why, as the Saviour said, when the Second Coming does happen it will take most of the world by surprise.

And others will expect it to occur within the next 5-10 years in perpetuity.

I am convinced the Second Coming is a real event that will happen but my not believing it is coming very very soon does not mean I am faithless. Instead I might just be right.

[teddyaware]

And others will expect it to occur within the next 5-10 years in perpetuity.

I am convinced the Second Coming is a real event that will happen but my not believing it is coming very very soon does not mean I am faithless. Instead I might just be right.

 

I too don't believe the Second Coming is going to happen in the next ten or fifteen years.  But it's very obvious to me -- and if you listen to the General Authorities in Conference, they seem to agree with me -- it's perfectly obvious the world is ripening in iniquity, and a world ripening in iniquity is one of the foremost signs of the times. But I think the reason why some members can't see what's going on right before their eyes is because they are either spiritually asleep or are liberal/progressive in outlook, and for that reason such folks are much less alarmed with what's clearly taking place. I'm quite certain we are one economic depression away from the world plunging into a state of darkness and chaos many members cannot now even begin to imagine.

 

I believe another reason why many members cannot anticipate what may soon occur is that they don't take the devil and his deceptive ways seriously enough. Remember, it's prophesied that the moral and spiritual bottom is going to fall out from beneath the nations of the latter-days when many are applauding a supposed "new era" of peace and safety.

 

 

 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that dayshould overtake you as a thief.

 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watchand be sober.

 7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.  (1 Thess 5)

 

And lest you try to use Paul's own word's to in an attempt to validate your position, remember, he said the "great and dreadful day of the Lord" would not occur until there came an apostasy first. And also remember we are in fact now living in the latter-days, after the prophesied apostasy and Restoration have taken place. So there is no arguing we are now many hundreds of years closer to the prophesied latter-day years of tribulation, and the ascendency of satan to unprecedented power, than was Paul and the meridian Church.. 

[strappinglad]

We should also remember that one of the signs of the times is people commenting that , " the Lord delayeth His Coming " , which implies that they have been expecting Him for quite some time and now think that He won't be coming any time soon. Are we fulfilling prophecy ?

[teddyaware]

We should also remember that one of the signs of the times is people commenting that , " the Lord delayeth His Coming " , which implies that they have been expecting Him for quite some time and now think that He won't be coming any time soon. Are we fulfilling prophecy ?

 

I agree. It amazes me how some of today's believing members have adopted the very kind of dismissive attitude toward the prophesied judgments of God that so many of the "foolish virgins" of the past held until it was too late. This attitude of mockery toward God's voice of warning is roundly condemned in the scriptures, and for that reason it's hard to understand why some would want to follow in the footsteps of the Lamans and Lemuels of the past. Do they realize the scriptures contain a veritable rogue's gallery of infamous individuals and clueless multitudes who ridiculed the prophetic warnings of their day until the whirlwinds of destruction descended and caught them by surprise? Meanwhile, those who seriously regarded the prophetic warnings were often led to safety and salvation. But I guess no matter how clear the warnings of scripture might be, there will always be those who will fulfill the prophecies by failing to regard God's warnings with solemnity. But what I find most flabbergasting is that the mockers maintain their cavalier attitude even though the scriptures warn that such mockers will be caught off guard. Go figure. Life is strange. 

[The Nehor]

I too don't believe the Second Coming is going to happen in the next ten or fifteen years. But it's very obvious to me -- and if you listen to the General Authorities in Conference, they seem to agree with me -- it's perfectly obvious the world is ripening in iniquity, and a world ripening in iniquity is one of the foremost signs of the times. But I think the reason why some members can't see what's going on right before their eyes is because they are either spiritually asleep or are liberal/progressive in outlook, and for that reason such folks are much less alarmed with what's clearly taking place. I'm quite certain we are one economic depression away from the world plunging into a state of darkness and chaos many members cannot now even begin to imagine.

I believe another reason why many members cannot anticipate what may soon occur is that they don't take the devil and his deceptive ways seriously enough. Remember, it's prophesied that the moral and spiritual bottom is going to fall out from beneath the nations of the latter-days when many are applauding a supposed "new era" of peace and safety.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that dayshould overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watchand be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. (1 Thess 5)

And lest you try to use Paul's own word's to in an attempt to validate your position, remember, he said the "great and dreadful day of the Lord" would not occur until there came an apostasy first. And also remember we are in fact now living in the latter-days, after the prophesied apostasy and Restoration have taken place. So there is no arguing we are now many hundreds of years closer to the prophesied latter-day years of tribulation, and the ascendency of satan to unprecedented power, than was Paul and the meridian Church..

The world was ripening in iniquity when the Nephites swore in their wrath to attack the Lamanites and when the world wiped out the Savior's dispensation. If the world ripening in iniquity was the only sign then the Savior would have come multiple times. It is cute that you consider people disagreeing with your political views as one of the signs of the times,

Members in the past in this dispensation have used the same logic you have to argue it was imminent in their day. While fleeing across the country from murdering mobs they assumed the Second Coming was imminent. In the 60s when the drug culture started to form there were members who thought they had to flee San Francisco and other areas as the judgements of God were seen as imminent and the world was too wicked to function in. That is adorably naive now. I imagine the next generations will see some greater rises in wickedness in other areas and possibly some backsliding to righteousness in a few areas before things get really bad and will find it cute that we thought our days were so horrible that the Second Coming must hit very very soon.

We should also remember that one of the signs of the times is people commenting that , " the Lord delayeth His Coming " , which implies that they have been expecting Him for quite some time and now think that He won't be coming any time soon. Are we fulfilling prophecy ?

No, I think you misunderstand that scripture. Context of the verse suggests that the people referred to in that scripture see things getting worse and worse with no Second Coming begin to despair of salvation and say he delayeth until the end of the world. In other words they believe he should have come as prophesied and has not yet come. They are avid "signs of the times" followers. I am the polar opposite of fulfilling that prophecy. I think the world and the church are not yet ready but I hope that I am whether it is now or long after my death.

I agree. It amazes me how some of today's believing members have adopted the very kind of dismissive attitude toward the prophesied judgments of God that so many of the "foolish virgins" of the past held until it was too late. This attitude of mockery toward God's voice of warning is roundly condemned in the scriptures, and for that reason it's hard to understand why some would want to follow in the footsteps of the Lamans and Lemuels of the past. Do they realize the scriptures contain a veritable rogue's gallery of infamous individuals and clueless multitudes who ridiculed the prophetic warnings of their day until the whirlwinds of destruction descended and caught them by surprise? Meanwhile, those who seriously regarded the prophetic warnings were often led to safety and salvation. But I guess no matter how clear the warnings of scripture might be, there will always be those who will fulfill the prophecies by failing to regard God's warnings with solemnity. But what I find most flabbergasting is that the mockers maintain their cavalier attitude even though the scriptures warn that such mockers will be caught off guard. Go figure. Life is strange.

I am not mocking the prophecies. I expect them to be fulfilled in every detail. I want to be ready at any time. Apparently to be a wise virgin in your eyes requires you to stand outside with your oil and expect him to come within the next five minutes in perpetuity, then be disappointed when he does not come, and then start the five minute wait all over again. I would argue it is even wiser to stand outside and expect him to come at some point as he chooses and be ready at all times whether it comes in five minutes or several centuries. The stories of the thief breaking in and the watchman on duty back up this reading. Long-term patient diligence is enjoined, not frantic guesswork as to the timing the thief will strike or enemy break in as if the signs being read means you can guess the time and get the jump on the Savior's coming.

I would argue that those who will lament that the Lord delays his coming will be those frustrated as their repeated guesswork about the timing are crushed and they believe the signs are fulfilled and he still has not come. Then they grow frustrated and believe he is delaying when he should have come. Read that scripture carefully.

[Damien the Leper]

I parallel current opinion and speculation with those who lived shortly after Christ's death. They thought the Second Coming was at hand. Speculating such does little good for anyone.

[Robert F. Smith]

.............................................................................................

..........................................I think the reason why some members can't see what's going on right before their eyes is because they are either spiritually asleep or are liberal/progressive in outlook, and for that reason such folks are much less alarmed with what's clearly taking place. I'm quite certain we are one economic depression away from the world plunging into a state of darkness and chaos many members cannot now even begin to imagine.

................................................................................ 

What about the fat cats of the totalitarian Right, especially on Wall Street, putting everyone else's money in their pockets and letting the government bail them out?  The Right wing wolves of Wall Street love to sell overvalued, speculative mortgage-back securities (based on sub-prime loans), risky derivatives, and Ponzi schemes.  Why?  Because they are too big to fail, and can always depend on government subsidies (taxpayer's money).  Why is the fascist Right so in love with socialism?  Why do they prefer to engage in hostile takeovers, then sell off the companies they have bought, thus sending American jobs overseas?  Because it is so profitable.  Hey, you can ask that great and charitable fella who ran for President and lost last time around -- 'cause that was his job.

[thesometimesaint]

I think that the most important thing is that regardless if I go to the Lord or he comes to me the results are the same.

[teddyaware]

What about the fat cats of the totalitarian Right, especially on Wall Street, putting everyone else's money in their pockets and letting the government bail them out?  The Right wing wolves of Wall Street love to sell overvalued, speculative mortgage-back securities (based on sub-prime loans), risky derivatives, and Ponzi schemes.  Why?  Because they are too big to fail, and can always depend on government subsidies (taxpayer's money).  Why is the fascist Right so in love with socialism?  Why do they prefer to engage in hostile takeovers, then sell off the companies they have bought, thus sending American jobs overseas?  Because it is so profitable.  Hey, you can ask that great and charitable fella who ran for President and lost last time around -- 'cause that was his job.

 

Sorry to disappoint you Robert  , but I'm a paleo-consevative of the Ezra Taft Benson stripe who views the activities of those you cite above to be neither conservative nor right wing. They are thieves and robbers, pure and simple. Paleo-conservatives believe you can't be a good conservative citizen and an immoral businessman at the same time. In fact, I believe one of the signs of the times is that much of the so-called "right wing" in this country is now just as immoral as their progressive "counterparts." More and more true constitutional conservatives believe nearly the entire body politic of this nation, both left and right, has become immoral and corrupt. The day when the U.S. Constitution hangs by a thread is fast approaching because very few politicians still believe in and advocate for true limited constitutional government. And the day is hastening when the people of this once-blessed nation will be no better than were the Nephites just before so many of them were destroyed by divine judgments at the time of Christ's death...

 

 

38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them (the works of the Gadianton robbers) up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.

 39 And thus they did obtain the sole management of the government, insomuch that they did trample under their feet and smite and rend and turn their backs upon the poor and the meek, and the humble followers of God.

 40 And thus we see that they were in an awful state, and ripening for an everlasting destruction. (Helaman 6)

[thesometimesaint]

James Madison would disagree.

[longview]

James Madison would disagree.

Yes, James Madison would disagree with Robert F. Smith.

[thesometimesaint]

Under the Commerce Clause both Smith and Madison would agree.

SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

 

Politics. Thread closed.