I Hate The Holidays, Anyone Else Feel The Same?

[poptart]

Reading all this really scares me.  As it is i'm pretty fragile and I know my risk for suicide will skyrocket as I get older, and once my moms gone that will be the last of my decient family.  Already tried overdosing a few years ago so I know the risk is there. 

I may have to live gun free or have something arranged. 

Edited December 3, 2014 by poptart

[Guest]

That kind of thing needs a smiley face...I pray you are not serious.

[poptart]

That kind of thing needs a smiley face...I pray you are not serious.

I am.

[saemo]

Reading all this really scares me.  As it is i'm pretty fragile and I know my risk for suicide will skyrocket as I get older, and once my moms gone that will be the last of my decient family.  Already tried overdosing a few years ago so I know the risk is there. 

I may have to live gun free or have something arranged.

Don't fear. There are real fears and fears of the type that come from our imagination. We carry some of our "monsters under the bed" far longer than we need. In some ways, those monsters can be needed to keep us from harm, in others, they are like a tool that is no longer needed and there comes a time to set the unneeded tool down.

 

Imagine life, not death. Walk in the light, not darkness. God loves you.

 

I recommend reading Paul's letter to the Romans, particularly chapters 5-8.

 

Romans 8:35-39

What will separate us from the love of Christ? Will anguish, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or the sword? As it is written:

“For your sake we are being slain all the day;

we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[seriously honestly]

I'm sorry you've been put through the ringer, poptart   Have you thought about starting your own tradition? Something completely new to help replace the negative memories associated with the holidays?

[poptart]

Don't fear. There are real fears and fears of the type that come from our imagination. We carry some of our "monsters under the bed" far longer than we need. In some ways, those monsters can be needed to keep us from harm, in others, they are like a tool that is no longer needed and there comes a time to set the unneeded tool down.

 

Imagine life, not death. Walk in the light, not darkness. God loves you.

 

I recommend reading Paul's letter to the Romans, particularly chapters 5-8.

 

Romans 8:35-39

What will separate us from the love of Christ? Will anguish, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or the sword? As it is written:

“For your sake we are being slain all the day;

we are looked upon as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we conquer overwhelmingly through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

For me its that i've been through waaay too much.  I've had it.  Honestly I really do hate life most of the time.  If seeing a psychologist doesn't fix it I don't know what will.

 

I'm sorry you've been put through the ringer, poptart   Have you thought about starting your own tradition? Something completely new to help replace the negative memories associated with the holidays?

Not really, I just hate this time of year so much.  Props to the people here who've been through what they did, I would have off'd myself long ago if I was in their shoes.

[Jeanne]

Jeanne, I'm glad you shared this, it gave me a lot of insight to your world. Your family is so fortunate to have you as their mother, sister, wife etc. You made me want to work on not taking my gamily for granted.

Hope you enjoy your REAL tree. For some reason I want a real one vs. the fake ones I've had in the past.  

BTW, my son and daughter in law are in Logan! Are you from Logan?

Thanks for your thoughts as well as from Saemo.  My heart understands those that are having Christmases without their loved ones..hard..especially the first one.

 

Originally, I grew up in a small town of Rush Valley in Tooele County.  I went to Tooele High but met my husband in Dugway and raised the kids there.  Later I moved to Providence (around Logan) and back to Tooele.  I am ready to go back to Logan.  Alot of the reasons that I moved to Tooele are no longer there.  Please..please..visit me..you and your kids!!!

 

Thanks to all.

Merry Christmas...Happy Holidays...and Fa..la..la..la...la!

[Kenngo1969]

I despise the holiday season. In September about 3 years ago, my son's girlfriend, his best friend, and two siblings drowned when their car flipped and landed upside down in an irrigation ditch.

In November in the mid 1980's, my dad was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer and given 6 months to live.

That same November, my husband at the time left me with no warning and filed for divorce. I found out when I came home from somewhere one day and the electricity was turned off.

In December of that same year, my brother committed suicide. We had his funeral 2 days before Christmas, then had to turn around Christmas morning and do "Santa" for his 4 year old son, who kept asking, "Where's daddy?"

So yeah. Pretty much the whole of Winter sucks for me.

Truly sorry for all of your losses this time of year.  Words are inadequate.

[Kenngo1969]

In July of 84 my cousin drowned at Lake Powell

In June of 85, my husband's brother committed suicide.

In July of 98, my 16 year old nephew died in a rollover (no seatbelt).

 

So sad. I hope you have a Merry Christmas this year.

Sorry for your losses, saemo.

[Guest]

I am.

Then seek help...you never know what might be said in an open forum such as this. Keep you in my prayers.

[poptart]

Then seek help...you never know what might be said in an open forum such as this. Keep you in my prayers.

My intake for the local mental outpatient  care center is next week.

[saemo]

For me its that i've been through waaay too much. I've had it. Honestly I really do hate life most of the time. If seeing a psychologist doesn't fix it I don't know what will.

Not really, I just hate this time of year so much. Props to the people here who've been through what they did, I would have off'd myself long ago if I was in their shoes.

Well, suicide really angers me. It is a plague in UT, today reporting in the news that UT has the 8th highest rate in the nation. Seems every year I know of someone whose family member has killed themselves. I have compassion for mental illness and going through hard times, but I find forgiving those who suicide, a very difficult thing to do. When I see my bro in law again, he's getting an earful! I'm still angry with him, nearly 30 years later. It's a stupid thing to do. S.t.u.p.i.d. Edited December 4, 2014 by saemo

[Yirgacheffe]

Well, suicide really angers me. It is a plague in UT, today reporting in the news that UT has the 8th highest rate in the nation. Seems every year I know of someone whose family member has killed themselves. I have compassion for mental illness and going through hard times, but I find forgiving those who suicide, a very difficult thing to do. When I see my bro in law again, he's getting an earful! I'm still angry with him, nearly 30 years later. It's a stupid thing to do. S.t.u.p.i.d.

With what seems to be a growing trend among the suicidal in taking out others and then, when sated killing themselves, I'm viewing those who only kill themselves with a much more sympathetic and kindly light.  I can see why it would be hard to forgive in a close family member just as it would be hard to forgive someone who murdered a person close to you.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Yirgacheffe

[poptart]

Well, suicide really angers me. It is a plague in UT, today reporting in the news that UT has the 8th highest rate in the nation. Seems every year I know of someone whose family member has killed themselves. I have compassion for mental illness and going through hard times, but I find forgiving those who suicide, a very difficult thing to do. When I see my bro in law again, he's getting an earful! I'm still angry with him, nearly 30 years later. It's a stupid thing to do. S.t.u.p.i.d.

You'll see it keep going up the way the USA is nowadays.  No one wants to pay for mental healthcare, and people in general treat eachother like animals anymore.  Something that grates me, a friend of mine from UT told me how the stores where he lived used to be closed on Sunday, and how one by one they all opened.  They could do like Germany and other parts of the world and vote in laws keeping them closed or better yet, as a community unite and not shop on sunday but no, even in the LDS stronghold materialism won out.  Me my and mine at the expense of everyone else.

[saemo]

You'll see it keep going up the way the USA is nowadays.  No one wants to pay for mental healthcare, and people in general treat eachother like animals anymore.  Something that grates me, a friend of mine from UT told me how the stores where he lived used to be closed on Sunday, and how one by one they all opened.  They could do like Germany and other parts of the world and vote in laws keeping them closed or better yet, as a community unite and not shop on sunday but no, even in the LDS stronghold materialism won out.  Me my and mine at the expense of everyone else.

I think it is something deeper than that. Something wrong with the world, but it isn't a hopeless wrong. Never be hopeless. Our hope has a name, Jesus Christ. Keep him on your horizon.

[poptart]

I think it is something deeper than that. Something wrong with the world, but it isn't a hopeless wrong. Never be hopeless. Our hope has a name, Jesus Christ. Keep him on your horizon.

I think it's pretty simple, people just chose to be rotten.  It's not that hard, treat others with respect.  Seems like everything post 9/11 has gone downhill.  I remember being a little kid in the 90's, really the last time people in the USA were kind of normal.  Even the bad kids just abused marijuana, none of the hard drugs like meth and heroine like nowadays.  Something went horribly wrong, and it was us.  We should have seen a lot of this coming, look at how so many from my generation grew up, especially the ones who had bad parents.  No one did anything to fix it and now the damage is pretty much irreversible, and when you look at the current crop of kids its just cringeworthy.  Top it off with a lot of schools having nothing for mental healthcare and there you go.  The missionaries at the employment example used to work with corrections way back when and so many mentally ill people end up in jail because that's the only place they can get treated.  Wonderful way to treat the weak and poor.

I think it's not something super deep, I think its something that snowballing and is in the process of destroying everything in its path, and like anything that gathers enough momentum once it gets going good luck stopping it,

Edited December 4, 2014 by poptart

[Yirgacheffe]

I think it's pretty simple, people just chose to be rotten.  It's not that hard, treat others with respect.  Seems like everything post 9/11 has gone downhill.  I remember being a little kid in the 90's, really the last time people in the USA were kind of normal.  Even the bad kids just abused marijuana, none of the hard drugs like meth and heroine like nowadays.  Something went horribly wrong, and it was us.  We should have seen a lot of this coming, look at how so many from my generation grew up, especially the ones who had bad parents.  No one did anything to fix it and now the damage is pretty much irreversible, and when you look at the current crop of kids its just cringeworthy.  Top it off with a lot of schools having nothing for mental healthcare and there you go.  The missionaries at the employment example used to work with corrections way back when and so many mentally ill people end up in jail because that's the only place they can get treated.  Wonderful way to treat the weak and poor.

I think it's not something super deep, I think its something that snowballing and is in the process of destroying everything in its path, and like anything that gathers enough momentum once it gets going good luck stopping it,

None of this has been my experience with people and I work in retail an area renowned for it's lack of courteous treatment on both sides of the fence.  The customer who treats me with disrespect or discourteously is rare and is often offset by the following customer who expresses their empathy for me in the previous interaction. Nor have I seen kids as awful as you describe, I've volunteered in my local Jr. High for 6 years now, before that I was at the grade school, and the kids have overall been good kids, kids who were not only well behaved at school but friendly and polite when encountered a few years later.  There are of course kids who have done as you say and the pain suffered by them and their families is heartbreaking, 3 kids in particular come to mind for me, but in general I see kids who are not out of bounds and young adults who are furthering their education, working, marrying and starting their own families. 

 

The 90's were not the halcyon days of little drug use you imagine, since you were a little kid at the time you probably weren't aware of the extent and variety of drug use during the period.  Look into it a bit.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Yirgacheffe

[Tacenda]

Poptart you need to maybe volunteer at some schools to see that the youth aren't all that bad, they may even be more loving than past generations. And I think drug use was worse in the 70's and 80's..my generation haha!

[poptart]

None of this has been my experience with people and I work in retail an area renowned for it's lack of courteous treatment on both sides of the fence.  The customer who treats me with disrespect or discourteously is rare and is often offset by the following customer who expresses their empathy for me in the previous interaction. Nor have I seen kids as awful as you describe, I've volunteered in my local Jr. High for 6 years now, before that I was at the grade school, and the kids have overall been good kids, kids who were not only well behaved at school but friendly and polite when encountered a few years later.  There are of course kids who have done as you say and the pain suffered by them and their families is heartbreaking, 3 kids in particular come to mind for me, but in general I see kids who are not out of bounds and young adults who are furthering their education, working, marrying and starting their own families. 

 

The 90's were not the halcyon days of little drug use you imagine, since you were a little kid at the time you probably weren't aware of the extent and variety of drug use during the period.  Look into it a bit.

Huh, well I do suspect a lot of it is due to the really unstable and abusive childhood.  Also have a real paranoid streak so there's that.  I have issues, can't help it.

 

Ohh I suspected there was a lot more, but my mom was one of those people who kept her kids busy.  Not sure where she got that from, growing up on maui or going to BYUH, but she kept me in sports by stashing away cash from my alcoholic father when I was growing up. 

A lot of it is me too, even in my early 20's I just did my best to ignore a lot of it, I have contempt for addicts because of what I had to grow up around and I never understood anyone who chose to shoot up or smoke something as disgusting as meth.  Probably why i'm at the age I'm at, have the education and the clean criminal record, something that seems like its a status symbol nowadays. One of the missionaries at the empolyment center brought that up and said that in this day and age its kinda rare to find a young person who is pretty clean record wise. 

 

Poptart you need to maybe volunteer at some schools to see that the youth aren't all that bad, they may even be more loving than past generations. And I think drug use was worse in the 70's and 80's..my generation haha!

A lot of it is paranoia, people nowadays are just so transitory.  What values people had they tossed out the window a long time ago.  Sorry to sound judgmental, keep in mind my mom was born when Hawaii was a territory and despite I look white enough to be just another haole from the mainland my mom did raise me so her values were pretty old fashioned.  I know she just cringes when she sees how irresponsible some mothers here are and she does notice how kids from Asian immigrant families just run circles around kids here.  Sure, people do bring up how stable their families are, but no one ever says how American families not too long ago were more or less the same value wise. 

This is just my take.  My fathers family at one time was very moral, but once the alcohol crept into their lives that was that.

Edited December 4, 2014 by poptart

[saemo]

I think it's pretty simple, people just chose to be rotten.  It's not that hard, treat others with respect.  Seems like everything post 9/11 has gone downhill.  I remember being a little kid in the 90's, really the last time people in the USA were kind of normal.  Even the bad kids just abused marijuana, none of the hard drugs like meth and heroine like nowadays.  Something went horribly wrong, and it was us.  We should have seen a lot of this coming, look at how so many from my generation grew up, especially the ones who had bad parents.  No one did anything to fix it and now the damage is pretty much irreversible, and when you look at the current crop of kids its just cringeworthy.  Top it off with a lot of schools having nothing for mental healthcare and there you go.  The missionaries at the employment example used to work with corrections way back when and so many mentally ill people end up in jail because that's the only place they can get treated.  Wonderful way to treat the weak and poor.

I think it's not something super deep, I think its something that snowballing and is in the process of destroying everything in its path, and like anything that gathers enough momentum once it gets going good luck stopping it,

There was a news story on NPR, can't recall when exactly, but it was on the topic of criminal records of young adults. There was/is a rise in police arresting young people for things they had previously given a warning. Zero tolerance kind of thing. So we have a generation of young adults with criminal records who maybe did nothing worse than smoke a joint when they were at a party. Even Bill Clinton did that (but didn't inhale)  .

 

People are people. Young people do dumb things, but for most it is fleeting and most go on to leading productive lives, their indiscretions of youth in the past. It used to be, those indiscretions were just that, but now, everyone is arrested so more have a criminal record. It affects everything, from university scholarships to getting a job.

 

I was in D.C. on 9/11. We saw the Pentagon on fire, and Capitol police standing shoulder to shoulder in the middle of the road between the Capitol and Supreme Court buildings. We saw then, Senator Biden, in a small park outside the Capitol, ringed by people and constantly on his phone. It was very real for us. When we flew back to SLC, which was a night flight, nothing flying in the day yet, it was like no one here really got what was going on. LOTS of American flags everywhere. But people still going to work and living their lives like nothing happened.

 

That experience affected me for years to come. I volunteered more, because I wanted to be part of something good. There is a lot of good in the world, and a lot of good people. Don't let the bad apples spoil your view of humanity.

 

By something wrong with the world, I wasn't trying to be over dramatic but it could be taken that way. lol. The world is fallen, the evidence of that easy for you and I to see. The remedy is not hopelessness. Hopelessness and suicide, that is the way to participate in what is wrong with the world. Being a part of the problem, you see? I don't mean that as a form of beating up on you or anyone, just sometimes, we need to look at ourselves in relationship to the world and see how we have fit ourselves in. Not as a means of beating up on oneself, but as a means towards discipleship of Jesus Christ, the love of God, and unity with people of good will.

 

God bless you.

[cursor]

I like Bob Newhart's approach.

 

 

I'm sure that you'll agree that (while funny to some) this was an insensitive response to someone seeking serious help/advice.

[cursor]

It sounds to me (and I'm no one at all) that it's not just holidays that bother you. It's very much more complex.

 

I too, don't care for holidays. They are so fabricated ... so artificial. I mean, really:

Why does Valentines Day even exist, if not for the jewelers, the flower-folk, and the restaurants who promote it?

What gives with the 4th of July ... and fireworks ... and pledges, and hands across the heart?

How is it that Christmas is about shopping, about buying a Lexus (delivered by "Santa" ... what a load), if not for the commercial interests.

 

I suspect, however that you (poptart) have concerns is about honesty.I t's about owning up. It's about connecting. It's about ownership. That most effectively requires sobriety (but doesn't hardly guaranty it) ... it also requires an awareness of historical past ... and it requires OWNING that historical past. Recognize, however that historical insobriety has its place, and deserves to be understood.

 

My father spent 2½ years as an LDS missionary in the Cook Islands — with the Mauri (while married to my mother in the USA, and one during son). As a now retired anthropologist, he seriously understands the culture. When I was just 16 years old, I spent 6 weeks in Laie Hawaii. I dated a ½ samoan+ ½ hawiian gal while there and could only minimally appreciated the culture.

 

The truth is that we all (individually) need to determine what "holiday" means to each of us. That hardly means that it must conform to someone else's idea of "holiday." We (my wife and I), for example no longer gift anything to family members. When we do give, it's to someone who really needs it .. and that, always anonymously.

 

Choose your own holidays. They hardly have to coincide with those regulars.

[Garden Girl]

I too, don't care for holidays. They are so fabricated ... so artificial. I mean, really:

Why does Valentines Day even exist, if not for the jewelers, the flower-folk, and the restaurants who promote it?

What gives with the 4th of July ... and fireworks ... and pledges, and hands across the heart?

How is it that Christmas is about shopping, about buying a Lexus (delivered by "Santa" ... what a load), if not for the commercial interests.

 

CURSOR:  Well, you certainly aren't a romantic, nor a patriotic celebrator...

 

 

AND I LIKE YOUR VIEWS HERE...

The truth is that we all (individually) need to determine what "holiday" means to each of us. That hardly means that it must conform to someone else's idea of "holiday." We (my wife and I), for example no longer gift anything to family members. When we do give, it's to someone who really needs it .. and that, always anonymously.

 

Choose your own holidays. They hardly have to coincide with those regulars.

------------------------------------------------------

 

GG

[cursor]

Don't tell me that I'm not a romantic. You really have no idea.

 

My wife and I celebrate our romantic whatever ... every day. We hardly need a commercially promoted single day of the year to celebrate our feelings for each other. 

 

As far as Verterans' Day is concerned, there'd be a lot less of the wounded, if folks in charge had their heads screwed on right. Where the hell is General Mormon when you need him. Seriously.

[Garden Girl]

Don't tell me that I'm not a romantic. You really have no idea.

 

My wife and I celebrate our romantic whatever ... every day. We hardly need a commercially promoted single day of the year to celebrate our feelings for each other. 

 

As far as Verterans' Day is concerned, there'd be a lot less of the wounded, if folks in charge had their heads screwed on right. Where the hell is General Mormon when you need him. Seriously.

 

Sorry Cursor...your above post sounded so Hum Bug and unromantic... I'm glad you and your wife celebrate your life in general... so did my husband and I... although I did appreciate the holidays too, although we didn't give "gifts" per se but would do something special like go out to dinner, or I'd make something special at home.

I get tired of the commercialism of holidays too, particularly Christmas...

One of the most romantic things my husband ever did for me was one time when we had had company for the weekend and they left late Sunday night.  I was too tired and it was too late to clean up, particularly the kitchen/dishes, etc., so I went to work the next morning leaving everything for when I got home.  Every now and then during the day my mind would go to what awaited me after a busy day, as Mondays always were.   

When I walked into our home I was so surprised... the kitchen was sparkling... I went from room to room, marveling as I found everything clean and in order.  When I got to the last bathroom in the guest room, here was a beautiful bouquet of flowers with a note... "Because I love you... Ray"

I cried...

He was always doing little things to please me, and occasionally, the big things...

 

GG