Rain Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) I'm teaching a class and have an idea of what I would like to say with this scripture. Before I do so I would like to have somewhat of an idea of the class discussion maybe taking a wrong turn because of this or that translation of the bible or this or that historical thing around the time it is written etc. I could look up the translations, but I may miss nuances that some of you know about. I know I can't control everything everyone is going to say, but this is one place I would like a pretty good idea of what might be said. ¶Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Is there anything that says this should be something like, "let me share your yoke"? I can see some real significance in us taking his yoke instead of the other way around, but do not want to get into a discussion with someone who feels "my yoke" was a wrong translation, context etc.. edited for clarity. Edited November 25, 2014 by Rain Link to comment
theplains Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Is there anything that says this should be something like, "let me share your yoke"? I can see some real significance in us taking his yoke instead of the other way around, but do not want to get into a discussion with someone in the class as how this was a wrong translation or something like that. I don't see any Greek New Testament fragments that renders it this way. Green's GreekInterlinear Bible (for example) has it as "take my yoke". But if you want to put words intothe mouth of Christ, then beware of the consequences. Regards,Jim Link to comment
pogi Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) We are either the servants of wickedness and wearing the yoke of bondage, or we are servants of righteousness and wearing the yoke of Christ - which to me symbolizes discipleship. We do his will and allow him to direct us. In a way, you are right Rain, because in order to take upon us the yoke of Christ, we first have to rid ourselves of the yoke of bondage. So, by taking upon us the yoke of Christ, Christ in turn takes upon Himself (through the atonement) our yoke - the yoke of bondage. We take His light yoke, and He takes our great burdensome yoke. Edited November 25, 2014 by pogi 4 Link to comment
Rain Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 OK, just to be clear - I am NOT saying that it should be Christ taking on our yoke. I am all for the way it is written in King James. I've just spent enough time here on this board that I can see if it was also translated for us taking on the yoke that someone could bring it up in class. If this may be an issue in the class I'm not sure I want to use this scripture. When I've done the bible translation comparisons here then I don't see that problem, but I know that there could be more than meets the eye and I just don't have the learning to know if there is. Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 ............................................................................ Is there anything that says this should be something like, "let me share your yoke"? I can see some real significance in us taking his yoke instead of the other way around, but do not want to get into a discussion with someone who feels "my yoke" was a wrong translation, context etc.. ........................Rob Lacey's Word on the Street (Zondervan, 2003-2004), 282, has it as follows: Listen to my quietly spoken advice,that I'll never shove down your throat,and your soul will think it's on a luxury holiday.'Cos what I ask you to carry for me is lightand streamlined to cause least resistance.It'll be so part of you,you'll hardly notice its weight. I have also seen another version: Take my yoga upon you, . . , as though Jesus had studied Hinduism. 1 Link to comment
danielwoods Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 A Yoke is what tied two oxen together to pull a plow. What farmers often do is yoke a young strong buck to an older one, not as strong. The combination results in more efficient work being done, because the older one knows what to do, and the younger one has the power. In Jesus' parable,he is speaking to those who are heavy laden (by the law), which we strive to keep, but can't. He takes that burden from us, and gives us the law of the Spirit, which fulfills the law of Moses. "Take my yoke" is to take on his spirit and be coupled to him directly, he's doing the work, and we are just along for the ride. 1 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I'm teaching a class and have an idea of what I would like to say with this scripture. Before I do so I would like to have somewhat of an idea of the class discussion maybe taking a wrong turn because of this or that translation of the bible or this or that historical thing around the time it is written etc. I could look up the translations, but I may miss nuances that some of you know about. I know I can't control everything everyone is going to say, but this is one place I would like a pretty good idea of what might be said. Is there anything that says this should be something like, "let me share your yoke"? I can see some real significance in us taking his yoke instead of the other way around, but do not want to get into a discussion with someone who feels "my yoke" was a wrong translation, context etc.. edited for clarity. Two little ideas that I had heard concerning this scripture. Take them for what they are: 1. First, we usually assume that when the scripture says my yoke is easy and my burden is light, that we are referring to weight. Perhaps the burden of the Christian believer is actually the light (truth) they have been given. When Christ says my burden is light, perhaps the burden is the light of truth, not the weight of trial. We who have more light, have more burden (responsibility). 2. In the early days of the church, there was a piece of the priesthood garment often referred to as the yoke of Christ. It represented something specific, which was also considered to be the yoke of Christ. Perhaps this scripture also has allusion to that garment symbol, it's significance, and the wearing of it. The various christian priestly vestments likewise have an item of clothing said to possibly represent the yoke of Christ. Two interesting alternative interpretations of that saying. 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) Danielwoods, A yoke is not only between two oxen but can be something worn or is a piece of a garment around the shoulders but also can be something used to help carry heavy things; it is placed across the shoulders and the burden is evenly distributed between the two sides.....Would be interesting to know if the Greek has any connotation that could narrow what it meant or if it had the same multiple meanings and could be a play on word. Edited November 26, 2014 by calmoriah 2 Link to comment
Calm Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) 1. First, we usually assume that when the scripture says my yoke is easy and my burden is light, that we are referring to weight. Perhaps the burden of the Christian believer is actually the light (truth) they have been given. When Christ says my burden is light, perhaps the burden is the light of truth, not the weight of trial. We who have more light, have more burden (responsibility).But does the original Greek have the same double meaning for "light" meaning both weight and visual or enlightening light? However, I like the idea for "likening the scriptures". It may not be the original meaning, but it could mean that for us if it inspires us to seek out God, take his Name, and make covenants with him. Edited November 26, 2014 by calmoriah Link to comment
Rain Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) So what I am getting is that there is no disagreement - this is the Savior's yoke, not the yoke of anyone else?Where my thinking is going: We know the Lord's work: to bring about immortality and eternal life of man.We know we have a part in helping others - President Kimball said often prayers/needs are met through us. We often think of bishops, RSPs etc being burdened with the loads of others and to some extent they are, but what if when we take Christ's yoke upon us through service to others our burdens are made light and we find rest? Sometimes we talk about service like it is such a heavy thing, but when I watch those who serve most without prompting I see a lightness (and a light! Like that idea JLHPROF!) in them. I had always thought of Christ taking such a burden on himself. How does that make sense to burden ourselves with more burdens of his yoke? But if taking on others burdens make us feel rested then it makes total sense to take his yoke. Edited November 26, 2014 by Rain Link to comment
Rain Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 But does the original Greek have the same double meaning for "light" meaning both weight and visual or enlightening light?However, I like the idea for "likening the scriptures". It may not be the original meaning, but it could mean that for us if it inspires us to seek out God, take his Name, and make covenants with him.I'd like to know that. I would love it if the greek meant both things. Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) I'd like to know that. I would love it if the greek meant both things. I tried googling that, and it doesn't appear to. But I'm not convinced that the original greek meaning is the only one. What I mean is why couldn't Heavenly Father have worked the english language so that light (in weight) and light (truth) used the same word....kind of like a parable or word play. Edited November 26, 2014 by JLHPROF Link to comment
Rain Posted November 26, 2014 Author Share Posted November 26, 2014 I can see that. I think the more I look around the more I see how big his plan is. I used to hate plans (wanted spontanaity) , but reading through I find bits and I see he is master planner and it is a good thing. Link to comment
ERayR Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 The yoke of this image is the yoke that connected two oxen so that both could pull the load. When you take Christs yoke you are connected to him and he pulls our load with us. Link to comment
Pinecone Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Yes, a yoke is for two. Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) I'm teaching a class and have an idea of what I would like to say with this scripture. Before I do so I would like to have somewhat of an idea of the class discussion maybe taking a wrong turn because of this or that translation of the bible or this or that historical thing around the time it is written etc. I could look up the translations, but I may miss nuances that some of you know about. I know I can't control everything everyone is going to say, but this is one place I would like a pretty good idea of what might be said.Quote ¶Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Is there anything that says this should be something like, "let me share your yoke"? I can see some real significance in us taking his yoke instead of the other way around, but do not want to get into a discussion with someone who feels "my yoke" was a wrong translation, context etc.. edited for clarity.I have taken another look, Rain, and you can find a similar sentiment in I Jn 5:3 in which we are assured that His commandments are not grievous (bareiai, "burdensome, oppressive, heavy, weighty"). As to Mat 11:30, For my yoke (zygos) is easy (chrestos),-----------chrestos, "kind, loving, good, merciful, easy to bear"and my burden (fortion) is light (elafron).---------------------------------elafron, "light, slight, insignificant" By the way, Mat 11:29, "and ye shall find rest unto your souls" is a quote from Jeremiah 6:16. Edited November 28, 2014 by Robert F. Smith Link to comment
LinuxGal Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 In a way, you are right Rain, because in order to take upon us the yoke of Christ, we first have to rid ourselves of the yoke of bondage. So, by taking upon us the yoke of Christ, Christ in turn takes upon Himself (through the atonement) our yoke - the yoke of bondage. We take His light yoke, and He takes our great burdensome yoke. Paul mentioned that some early Christians said with respect to converts that it was "needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses" and went on to argue that their hearts was purified by faith, concluding with "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Paul would have a big problem with Moroni 8:25 that states that "the fulfilling the commandments bringeth remission of sins". Link to comment
janderich Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) Paul mentioned that some early Christians said with respect to converts that it was "needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses" and went on to argue that their hearts was purified by faith, concluding with "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?" Paul would have a big problem with Moroni 8:25 that states that "the fulfilling the commandments bringeth remission of sins".I think not. Mormon's point is in keeping with Paul's. In the versus just previous Mormon is emphatic that redemption comes to all them that have "no law" and that it is mockery before God to put trust in "dead works". Moreover, in the verse you site I believe Mormon is saying that faith and repentance fulfills the commandments, and consequently brings a remission of sins and baptism of the spirit (which the physical ordinance points to). Edited November 28, 2014 by janderich Link to comment
saemo Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) I'm teaching a class and have an idea of what I would like to say with this scripture. Before I do so I would like to have somewhat of an idea of the class discussion maybe taking a wrong turn because of this or that translation of the bible or this or that historical thing around the time it is written etc. I could look up the translations, but I may miss nuances that some of you know about. I know I can't control everything everyone is going to say, but this is one place I would like a pretty good idea of what might be said.Is there anything that says this should be something like, "let me share your yoke"? I can see some real significance in us taking his yoke instead of the other way around, but do not want to get into a discussion with someone who feels "my yoke" was a wrong translation, context etc..edited for clarity.A few things from various homilies and writings that I recall.- Jesus was a carpenter, and so speaking in terms of things made out of wood, a yoke is one. The carpenter, who makes the yoke, fit perfectly for us, which we receive at our baptism. Represents our relationship with Christ. A yoke freely received, but not a lifelong burden to which we hope to escape. - The Messiah was expected to be a warrior king, who would conquer all of Israel's enemies. He was imagined to be a destructive conquerer, in the vein of God's judgement and wrath. Jesus, in many ways if not all, turned that concept on its head. He came to save not to destroy. So the yoke can be seen as God's mercy and love, which is not weighed down by God's vengeance.Paul, several times, names himself as a slave of Christ. Jesus, here, explains his gentle mastery. In short, abide in Him, is what Jesus is saying. Edited November 28, 2014 by saemo 1 Link to comment
intra Posted December 25, 2014 Share Posted December 25, 2014 (edited) a yoke is not necessarily for more than one animal, or necessarily for an animal at all. it is an instrument by which a burden is carried and work is done. has He not prepared beforehand for us 'good works' in Him? has He not said all who would become His disciples must pick up their cross and follow Him? here is the Greek: Strong's Transliteration Greek English Morphology 142 [e] arate ἄρατε Take V-AMA-2P3588 [e] ton τὸν the Art-AMS2218 [e] zygon ζυγόν yoke N-AMS1473 [e] mou μου of me PPro-G1S1909 [e] eph’ ἐφ’ upon Prep4771 [e] hymas ὑμᾶς you, PPro-A2P2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj3129 [e] mathete μάθετε learn V-AMA-2P575 [e] ap’ ἀπ’ from Prep1473 [e] emou ἐμοῦ, me, PPro-G1S3754 [e] hoti ὅτι for Conj4239 [e] praus πραΰς gentle Adj-NMS1510 [e] eimi εἰμι I am V-PIA-1S2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj5011 [e] tapeinos ταπεινὸς humble Adj-NMS3588 [e] tē τῇ [in] the Art-DFS2588 [e] kardia καρδίᾳ, heart; N-DFS2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj2147 [e] heurēsete εὑρήσετε you will find V-FIA-2P372 [e] anapausin ἀνάπαυσιν rest N-AFS3588 [e] tais ταῖς [for] the Art-DFP5590 [e] psychais ψυχαῖς souls N-DFP4771 [e] hymōn ὑμῶν· of you. PPro-G2P3588 [e] ho ὁ the Art-NMS1063 [e] gar γὰρ indeed Conj2218 [e] zygos ζυγός yoke N-NMS1473 [e] mou μου of me PPro-G1S5543 [e] chrēstos χρηστὸς easy, Adj-NMS2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj3588 [e] to τὸ the Art-NNS5413 [e] phortion φορτίον burden N-NNS1473 [e] mou μου of me PPro-G1S1645 [e] elaphron ἐλαφρόν light Adj-NNS1510 [e] estin ἐστιν. is. V-PIA-3S the Greek word "elaphron" (translated "light") means not heavy or burdensome and has no meaning related to photons or brightness or truth or anything like the connotation or metaphor of the English word with identical spelling. what, should the true meaning be lost on anyone who speaks a language other than English? EDIT: fixed formatting Edited December 25, 2014 by intra Link to comment
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