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Prince Hal

I can become greater than Heavenly Father ?

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The "mormon myth" that my spouse and I will be Elohim and Spouse(s) of our own world does not add up. We will be gods in a Celestial Kingdom and with all the other gods who attain that level (FROM THIS EARTH) will be gods with us. We will be the coucil of gods which Jesus Christ, under His Father, will Preside over. The plan of salvation we adopt will be the plan of His Father, the Eternal God. We, as gods, and under the direction of Chirst will create an earth as has heretofor been done, and the plan will continue.

Nothing you have posted from the Prophets or the scriptures counter what I am saying. The only thing that counters this is the "mormon myth" I have already pointed out.

Kneehigh, that is not what I have understood, in fact I understand it to be the opposite, that we will have our own kingdoms, and that our own spirit children will worship us and us God the Father. I am certainly willing to concede if I misunderstand, but believe it to be like this. Do you have support for what you are stating? I have not seen this before, and though I disagree would like to see how you arrived at your reasoning. Thanks.

The D&C states the Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob already have their own thrones and I understand this to be that they are gods in their own right and the earth is not yet the CK.

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The D&C states the Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob already have their own thrones and I understand this to be that they are gods in their own right and the earth is not yet the CK.

They are already gods, even before the ressurection?

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Yes, they already are, see D&C 132:

37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

Additionally, if we are to be like God, then what you are suggesting kneehigh, seems to be the opposite. In fact we are to be joint-heirs with Christ and inherit all that the Father hath. What you are suggesting seems to be something less.

They are joint-heirs with Christ to all that the Father hath, and they receive the fulness of the glory of th Father, becoming gods in their own right. Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, pp. 58-99.

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How do you make that reasoning fit in with these scriptures:

Isaiah 44:8 

Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

Deuteronomy 4:39 

Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Isaiah 43:10 

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Here we go, yet again:

Isaiah 44:8

Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God that can save mankind beside me? yea, there is no other God; I know not any other that can save you but me.

Deuteronomy 4:39

Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else that can save this world.

Isaiah 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me any that can save the children of men; I am the God of this world and there is none else.

Paul O

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"Be Ye Even As I Am".

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Paul O

This verse implies there is only one throne. Is that acceptable to your theory?

Sure, just so long as I am sitting in it.

I Paul O have said in mine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne with the stars of God. I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation of gods in the celestial kingdom. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds and I will be like the Most High.

:P

Paul O

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www2.ida.net/graphics/shirtail/reviewof.htm

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John 14:12.

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"Be Ye Even As I Am".

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Paul O

This verse implies there is only one throne. Is that acceptable to your theory?

Sure, just so long as I am sitting in it.

I Paul O have said in mine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne with the stars of God. I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation of gods in the celestial kingdom. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds and I will be like the Most High.

:P

Paul O

Why would you do that?

What do you think the point was that was being made with that verse you just quoted from?

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from my understanding the Hebrew construct of "One GOD" not knowing any other god is like the excusivity of a sweetheart " You are the only One For me, I know not any".

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Paul O

Great Paul! When your done revising the bible, let me know and Ill pick up a copy! Will you call it the P.O.K.J.V.?

Seriously, this verse specifically says "heaven and earth".

Deuteronomy 4:39

Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

If there are other gods in heaven, wouldnt He know it?

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Commentary on John 2:3 - Origen

Now it is possible that some may dislike what we have said representing the Father as the one true God, but admitting other beings besides the true God, who have become gods by having a share of God. They may fear that the glory of Him who surpasses all creation may be lowered to the level of those other beings called gods. We drew this distinction between Him and them that we showed God the Word to be to all the other gods the minister of their divinity. To this we must add, in order to obviate objections, that the reason which is in every reasonable creature occupied the same relation to the reason who was in the beginning with God, and is God the Word, as God the Word occupies to God. As the Father who is Very God and the True God is to His image and to the images of His image--men are said to be according to the image, not to be images of God--so He, the Word, is to the reason (word) in every man. Each fills the place of a fountain--the Father is the fountain of divinity, the Son of reason. As, then, there are many gods, but to us there is but one God the Father, and many Lords, but to us there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, so there are many Logoi, but we, for our part, pray that that one Logos may be with us who was in the beginning and was with God, God the Logos.

IRENAEUS AGAINST HERESIES - BOOK II (28::P

The Father, therefore, has been declared by our Lord to excel with respect to knowledge; for this reason, that we, too, as long as we are connected with the scheme of things in this world, should leave perfect knowledge, and such questions [as have been mentioned], to God, and should not by any chance, while we seek to investigate the sublime nature of the Father, fall into the danger of starting the question whether there is another God above God.

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The thoughts of individual members do not constitute the doctrines of any church including the LDS church. I am both fascinated and entertained by Paul O and Kneehigh's comments and theories. A two-tier Godhood, those who follow the royal lineage of Jesus and His Heavenly Father and those that come from those who have worked out their salvation, sinned and climbed the tree.

This whole plethora and pantheon of God's reminds me so much of Stargate, and petty pickering and squabbling to be the biggest and best.

However, having said this, for the most part I do not find the thoughts of Heavenly Paul (refer to his own previous posting) and Kneehigh to be unlogical. Potentially even they are the natural progression from that which is written by the LDS prophets and apostles already. That is where my argument and protests lie.

I was thinking in answer to my own question. Within LDS theology, someone could become a God greater than Heavenly Father now is, in knowledge, power and dominion (as Wilford Woodruff has said - see my previous post), and yet still is not "greater" than Him. You see, I have a higher paid job than my father had. I have a longer job title, I have a house with many bathrooms (my dad has one and one outside). I am richer than him and in the eyes of the world am more successful. However, I respect my father. I would defer to his wishes, I honour him. He is my father and stand above me in respect. (He really, realy does - he is a wonderful man). So, perhaps this was the answer that I was expecting, though I've only worked it out myself over the past 2 days.

I see a great danger in all this and so fully understand why many LDS stick to the basics. You see, our motives can be skewed. What is our purpose for studying and learning knowledge ? A speaking in sacrament this week gave us the answer: so that we can become Gods and people our own worlds. Surely, the answer is so that we can honour our Father by learning of His ways. To understand His great love for us, to worhsip Him through studying His creation and His works. Too easily we can slip into pride and arrogance. And hence we get to the oft quoted comment of Joseph Smith who claimed that God would be his "right hand man" and that even Jesus' followers left him, but the Latter-day Saints didn't leave Joseph.

So, I do not fault Paul O and Kneehigh especially for their theories, but I do question the framework and foundation that allows the supremecy of God, our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, to be denigrated to just one of many - and perhaps not even the greatest at that. It is a foundation [topic for another thread, though it has been done many times] that also spawns the belief that Christ's atonement is not all powerful - and that we can work out our own salvation, even if it means giving our lives to make up the points that Christ's atonement did not or could not.

However, even friends can disagree amicably.

Hal.

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Hal,

What started the whole study of this issue for me was the fact I thought the general attitude of my Elders toward Jesus and His true nature as God was sorely lacking in respect.

" but I do question the framework and foundation that allows the supremecy of God, our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, to be denigrated to just one of many - and perhaps not even the greatest at that." Quoted from Hal.

That was pretty much my feeling as well. So, after much study and prayer, I found how we can attain a godship, UNDER Christ and His Father and continue to give all the Glory to Him, forever.

The fact we can, after MUCH progression, become co-hiers to Christs' Fathers' Kingdom is not a problem for me. But to relegate Jesus to the "Just the first born of all the Spirits" and "our big brother" status denies what He is, was and always will be. An Eternal God, Creator and Savior.

The point of view that many members hold that we are Elohim in embryo just does not cut it for me, and it does not fit with what the Scriptures nor the Prophets have said on the subject. It really does not fit what Jesus said concerning His Father. It does not fit the council of the gods, where Jesus was "greater" than them all, and His Father "greater" than Him.

Like I posted, I can find nothing in the scriptures nor the writtings of the prophets which counters what I have said. They have told us how progressed gods get there, they do not tell us how Christ was born, even as a Spirit, a God, equal in power, glory and dominion to His Father. Clearly, our spirits were not "begotten" in that way, His was.

NOBODY TAKE THIS AS A PERSONAL ATTACK. But as a general idea in the Church today, I think we are not giving Christ what is His, yet we are supposedly marching toward being Elohim without missing a beat. That aint the way it is, in IMO.

In the end, I do not think we (as members) need to question the "foundation and framework", but rather our shallow and misunderstood concepts, views and ideas of said foundation and framework.

I believe the foundation and famework is true and based on the foundation of Jesus Christ and His Eternal Nature as God.

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" but I do question the framework and foundation that allows the supremecy of God, our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, to be denigrated to just one of many - and perhaps not even the greatest at that." Quoted from Hal.

That was pretty much my feeling as well. So, after much studyand prayer, I found how we can attain a godship, UNDER Christ and His Father and continue to give all the Glory to Him, forever.

Apparently Origen (see my above post) didn't think that by us becoming gods, that it made God the Father any less.

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I am not saying that Jesus' Father had only one spirit son.

You kept telling me that Jesus was the ONLY begotten of the spirit and the flesh. All of the scriptures that I find on the subject of being the Only Begotten have reference to the flesh. Everything that I read about the spirit is that Christ was the Firstborn. To be the firstborn their would have to be a second and a third.

I am saying only Jesus is the exact same as His Father, that we know of, and is the Only Begotten of Him in every way, shape and form. He is One with his Father and always has been.

Wait so Heavenly Father had other Children. Am I one of those Children? Is my father in heaven one of those children? Is his father in heaven one of his children? I agree pretty much with what you have said. But Christ grew to his status and power. He didn't just "have it." I agree he is greater then us all! As you have quoted, he had progressed farther then anybody else. But as you can see Christ was a spirit? Abraham is seeing Christ in this pre-mortal counsel. This means Christ hadn't come to earth yet. So how in the world did my Father in Heaven get to be a God? I mean how did he get to go through salvation and obtain Godhood (have kids and all) with out Christ suffering the Atonement yet? By this idea you have Christ is the Savior under the Heavenly Father, but did Christ come to all of these lower god's worlds? Or did Christ come just once and all the gods before him have been waiting or what? I guess I just don't see how the fits into your ideas.

The way you see it, Jesus' Father and His wives had all of us as spirit children, created an earth, and here we are.

First I don

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I was thinking in answer to my own question.

So, perhaps this was the answer that I was expecting, though I've only worked it out myself over the past 2 days.

Worked out? I didn't know the Gospel of Christ was meant to be 'worked out'?

...but I do question the framework and foundation that allows the supremecy of God, our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, to be denigrated to just one of many - and perhaps not even the greatest at that.

Well, you can 'question' all you want, but because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean it isn't true. THAT is what is meant in the scriptures by following after your own heart. And why do you use the word 'denigrated'? Do you feel denigrated because you have siblings?

It is a foundation that also spawns the belief that Christ's atonement is not all powerful.

Your probabaly going to have to explain this to me. I just don't see how the Atonement is not all powerful for -US- simply because there might be other dominions - FOR OTHERS.

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McConkie says that Heavenly Father is as high as anybody can progress to be! Nothing anybody else does will ever get them higher then what Heavenly Father is! Now maybe you can get to be at the same level as Heavenly Father faster. But you will never be able to be "more powerful" then Him. How could you be?

So eternal progression really isn't eternal?

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Without dodging the question and stating that it is POSSIBLE that we don't know everything, where did God come from and who was the first God? If you don't have an answer then just say I don't know, because I understand that there are things that we will not know until we are in heaven. YET, I don't find the nature of God to be as trivial as this message board displays. In short, God says that he is the first, the last and there is no other besides him. I can in absolute honesty, with no agenda, say that I am almost 100% certain that any and everyone that read that scipture and or these (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Gal. 4:8-9) without the aid of someone interpreting or opening your eyes to what it REALLY means if you will, would believe in 1 God and one God only Its pretty straight forwad and common sense.

If I were to state "That Steve was the first, the last and that there is no other person in this house" Again, anybody reading that for the first time without fail, would all come to the same conclusion. There would be follow-up questions that anyone and everyone would answer identically, llike so how many persons were there in the house. (Steve) Who was the first person (Steve). etc...etc.

I know this seems juvenile going to these lengths, but it is how I portray this whole topic. I also understand that there are ways to legitimize or open up the possibility of anything, which is what I think is taking place here. I find it astonishing that the bible clearly tells us this, yet there is discussions.

It takes more non-reasoanable, flaky, irrational reasoning to believe in eternal progression then it does to just believe in his word. Yet despite the inability to complete the concept full circle, mormons still argue in support of it. Again, I know there are some things that are not to be understood, during our short time here on earth, BUT why would the prophets be revealed this amazing knowledge and truth, all to just get a portion of the revelation but not the whole picture and not be able to explain it fully? For confusions sake? Kinda makes them look bad, wouldn't you say. If this is not the case will a mormon please tell me who the first God was? The Bible tells me there is one, and one only, who was from the beginning of time until the end of time. (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Gal. 4:8-9)

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Paul Osborne Posted: Jan 10 2005, 08:55 PM 

Man is finite but God is infinite.

Our God knows an infinite number of Gods. To say otherwise is to deny God

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In short, God says that he is the first, the last and there is no other besides him.

You know, my son (age 4) is always asking me if I'm his father (reasurance, I guess) and I tell him 'yes, I am'. Then he asks if he is my son, again, I say yes.

To him, he only knows me as his father - he knows about our Heavenly Father, but he doesn't fully comprehend the meaning yet. There are other fathers in this World, but they are not his father. I'm not truly his father either, because I didn't create/organize him (this is what he doesn't understand at the moment), I am merely his father on Earth - even though I will always be sealed to him. I am not lying to him, he just doesn't fully understand yet.

Which, apparently you don't seem to either.

I can in absolute honesty, with no agenda, say that I am almost 100% certain that any and everyone that read that scipture and or these (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Gal. 4:8-9) without the aid of someone interpreting or opening your eyes to what it REALLY means if you will, would believe in 1 God and one God only  Its pretty straight forwad and common sense.

Yes, I guess you - or anyone else - could come to that conclusion, if you ignore the rest of the scriptures.

Now tell me, would you include the HG as 'the aid of someone interpreting or opening your eyes'?

Because, I know that his job is to truly show us what things 'really' DO mean.

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Gordon writes:

You know, my son (age 4) is always asking me if I'm his father (reasurance, I guess) and I tell him 'yes, I am'. Then he asks if he is my son, again, I say yes.

To him, he only knows me as his father - he knows about our Heavenly Father, but he doesn't fully comprehend the meaning yet. There are other fathers in this World, but they are not his father. I'm not truly his father either, because I didn't create/organize him (this is what he doesn't understand at the moment), I am merely his father on Earth - even though I will always be sealed to him. I am not lying to him, he just doesn't fully understand yet.

Which, apparently you don't seem to either.

You're right I don't understand. As for you example given, I am assuming that you are comparing you(the father) as our God (the father) and your son (the child) as me or we (children of god). If that is correct I ask you this. Is your son able to read? Because I can. Have you left your son scripture that speaks of who and what you really are? My God has. If either of those questions are no, then we are not comparing apples to apples so lets just scratch your analogy.

Gordon states:

Yes, I guess you - or anyone else - could come to that conclusion, if you ignore the rest of the scriptures.

Considering that I gave over 10 verses that support this would you mind providing me with 10 scripture that I am ignoring that refute this?

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Gordon writes:

You should just stop with 'I don't understand' - that was the point of my analogy. It's OK, none of us understand everything, but with modern prophets and apostles, some things are made clearer.

As to my analogy, me answering my son's question is the same as any way the Lord answers us - be it through prayer, scripture, prophets, personal revelation, and/or the HG. Now, if I wrote it down for him, what's to stop him from misinterpreting me, or someone changing what I wrote? - My analogy works.

My not understanding does not come from a lack of knowledge, but a failure for YOU to make sense. The argument of scripture being changed is utterly ridiculous. Has the book of mormon been changed? I know a man is capable of re-writing the bible, but do you believe that man is capable of stopping/obstructing/limiting or somehow lessen the power of God by manipulating his book? If so, then the God you serve is not very powerful, if he can be controlled and manipulated by the stroke of a mans hand.

Well, I'm at school right now, so it will be hard to quote ten for you. What I can do is give you examples from the Bible - which I'm sure you have heard before.

For instance: Jesus prays to the Father (seriously, do you think he has a split personality? Or do you really think he is trying to fool the World by having us think he is praying to someone?), the Father talks to the World as the Son is being baptized (did anyone see Jesus' lips moving during this, and again, why would the Savior try to fool us?), or Thomas seeing the Lord standing on the right hand of the Father (what, was he standing on his own hand?)

See, there is only one G-d for us (one that we worship, one that we pray to, one that is our Father in Heaven), plus, there is only one Lord for us (also the Father - because he created our bodies, this Earth, the Heavens, and everything around us), he is the only Savior, the only way back to our Father, but he too is a G-d - for he thought it not blasphemy to be equal with G-d, and all that the Father has, he has also - in glory, power, and perfection. Plus, there is the HG, a member of the Godhead, but does not have a body as the Father and the Son have, nor has he been resurected, but he too has the same power and glory.

You see, the point I am trying to make, is that you must take ALL the scriptures together, so that they ALL make sense. Not take a handful and go with them alone, even thought they contradict another separate handful.

As to other G-ds, or other Fathers: who cares? That is not important for our Salvation - HERE.

Jesus praying to the father is acceptable and a well accepted view of the Trinity

Again the father speaking to Jesus when he was baptized is also acceptable in the construct of the Trinity.

As for the Lord standing on the right hand of the father, because he sees two people doesn't mean they are not one in the same. If they were human beings then it would be impossible for them to be one in the same, but they are not so do not limit their capabilities to what humans are limted to.

There is only one God PERIOD! Not only for us, but everything! I agree that you must take ALL scriptures so that they make sense, as I have just explained in the previous paragraph. There is no contradiction on my part. As to the other Gods or Fathers who cares?? You believe that they are there but have no proof of what they are or what they do? I would think you should care if you though there were other Gods about that were just as or more powerful than the God you serve? I find it very interesting that you speak of taking all scripture together and not just picking out pieces. The scripture I provided you makes a very non-complex statement. Isaiah 45:5 states I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: If you don't do anything else, I would like for YOU to tell me what this scritpure and the others that I provided you mean? I'm just interested to know your thoughts? That is as clear as crystal, it is a flat-out declarative sentence. Then you turn around and give me "instances" or "events" that occur or took place and you give me your, or the mormon interpretation of what that is really saying. Becareful because at first glance I can see how you could think that, I really do, but that is not what was said, but what you interpreted or were told. Do you have any "declarative" statements that support your ideas or just instances and events that can be used in your defense? If you don't have "declarative" statements I'm sorry but it doesn't equate. I am really interested to know what you think is meant by the scritpures that I provided in the previous thread.

Well, the HG has let me know that the BoM is truly scripture from the Lord, which makes all that follow correct - as long as they are in accord with the Lord and his Gospel, which they are. That includes modern prophets and apostles, that help us to understand the scriptures and the Gospel - those parts that have been lost or corrupted. That is my 'proof'.

And no, the HG will not lead us astray. If you think it is, then that is not the HG, and if you are in tune, you can/will be able to distinguish. So no, I'm not hearing a 'false' Spirit. You hear the HG as well, but are not listening to ALL that he has to offer. He gives you truth, and then you take that and accept no more, saying that you know by the HG, well, there's more - listen.

You just told me what you thought and that was not what I asked for. You think the HG has let you know something, you haven't proved that it was the HG? And you are right IF your beliefs were in accordance with the scripture you would be right but they aren't. Thats proof?

I know the real HG will not lead us astray. Its not BEING IN TUNE that give you discernment. Its not always the HG that gives you truth either. Yes, you are hearing a false spirit because obviously you do not understand the concept of truth being revealed. He gives you truth??? Really? "2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Hmm? Study? So God wants us to read his word? And then after we have read the word we will be able to divide the word of truth? Don't get me wrong, the HG CAN give you the truth, but 2 Tim shows us that he wants you to research/read his word so that you are able to do it yourself also.

[

B]'The book', 'the book' - trust me, the 'books' do not trump the HG. The Lord didn't say he would send books in his place, he said he would send the Comforter, the HG to teach us all truth. The scriptures are a 'guide', the HG makes us know of their truth, and to know of their meaning. They aren't here to 'test' the Spirit.

And nothing that the HG has revealed has contradicted the Bible (books), it has only contradicted Man.

You are right the book does not trump the HG. The HG and 'the book' are complimentary and interdependent upon each other. If the books were not there you would not know the HG from Satan. You wouldn't know what, how, when, why or who the HG was? The book, the book is a critical component of understanding the Lord Jesus Christ, God and the HG. You wanna look up that scripture again and tell me what it really says without the Gordon twist, because my bible doesn't say anything about truth, it simply says things. But if Gordon wants it to say truth, I guess thats okay. Are we not to test the spirits? 1 John 4:1-3 1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

If you are not to use the bible in order to "TEST" the spirits as the book of John has revealed to us, what do we use? You can't say the HG, because the Holy Ghost is a spirit? So what do we use?

Nobody here can answer that question - nobody can (not in this life anyway), nor would they attempt to do such. You could ask the Lord himself, and he would probabaly not tell you - if he knew at all, and yes, there are some things he does not know , such as the time that he will come for the second time. Only the Father knows that - which is another example for the first paragraph, execpt that might not be in the Bible.

I know they can't because the whole idea of eternal progression is a farce, impossible and makes no sense. Let me guess this straight, you have modern day prophets and they don't know this? You are the one true church and you know everything that was lost from Temple Ceremonies, Baptism for the Dead....Oh and you do know that there are more than 1 God, that God the father is a man, and all this other interesting stuff, but you don't know how it all started? Give me a break. You claim to have the full truth and can't even tell when or where the real truth started? Again, not very practical, reasonable, feasible nor believable.

As a man he did not know, but I believe he knows now. Do you think Jesus was the same before and after his resurrection? If you think he was, he wasn't. The same way we will not be the same when we are resurrected, neither was he. You see Jesus had to deal with being 100% man and 100% deity all at the same time, so from that union between deity and flesh he was lesser than God the father because of his physical body placed limitations upon him.

After all of this there are two main questions I would like for you to address:

#1 I would like to know what the scriptures mean to you or what is your interpretation of them. (the 10 or so that I provided you with)

#2 Since the book of John DOES tell us to test the spirits, I would like to know how mormons or you for that matter go about testing the spirits, because the aid of the HG is a spirit and that is what you are to be testing?

Good Night and God Bless

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