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Towards A Better Understanding Of Same Sex Attraction And Sin

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Because He said so... God doesn't need to explain his reason to me, you, our neighbors, the President or anyone else.

He does if He wants me to go along with it. I thought Mormons believed in a better god than that. Come on, truth is reason.

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For those interested in more information on the origin of homosexuality, I found the following lecture very interesting.  It's a bit dated:  2010.  But it was given by BYU biology professor, Dr. William Bradshaw.  He is also a faithful church member having served as a mission president & in a stake presidency in addition to his employment at BYU.  Those who are acquainted with him also know that he has a gay son.

 

In his 1 hr and 40 minute presentation, he summarizes much of the prevailing research on the causes of homosexuality.

 

Here's the link.

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The sin is the same sin as always - it's life vs. death. 

Homosexual relationships prevent life/future generations from forming.  Scripturally ANY activity that is anti-life or stops life from progressing is sinful in nature.  God's entire work is about creating and extending life.

By that logic, being single is also a sin. And how about bisexuality? You can have kids and be gay at the same time.

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By that logic, being single is also a sin. And how about bisexuality? You can have kids and be gay at the same time.

 

Choosing to be single for eternity IS a kind of sin.  At least according to a few prophets.  It prevents you from progressing.  And one opposite of progression is damnation (another being regression).

 

As for Bisexuality, it doesn't change the fact that the homosexual relationship violates the eternal law of life.

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OK...I have a gay child, who can make me laugh more than anyone living. She never and I mean never expressed any interest in boys. But their are many who are not gay and never marry and remain obedient to the commandments, also many gays do the same. If she must suffer any punishment, I will gladly endure it for her...her and all my children. Not long ago, in anger she expressed contempt for all I believe and all that I am. I did not handle it well. I cursed God and wanted to die. I feel like I have failed her and that is a burden to horrible to bare. When you are a parent only one batting average counts...1,000, no losses are acceptable. You say you want to understand...then be kind and loving toward all who are gay, love them as you would any other...but hold true to what is right and what is wrong. Be willing to be kind to even those who my despise you.

I do believe there are some rare cases where biology got messed up, but I do believe in large part that this problem is because of a myriad of factors in society coupled with upbringing circumstances, experiences and perceptions of those events in ones mind. Acceptance of this behavior in society (not SSA but actual homosexual behavior) has done a lot of harm and no good. believe it possible to be able to eliminate these circumstances in large part with proper vigilance. I believe we give up too easily anymore. Allowing this LGBT movement to gain strength with their agenda is not helping the cause at all. I am open to understanding the true reasons behind this problem in society and dealing specifically with each case to get to the bottom of it. We should always treat even the sinner with love and respect. But we should also be careful that we do not show the love in a manner where it may show that we accept the sinful behavior or endorse it or even look the other way just to have a relationship. It sends the wrong message in my opinion.

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Choosing to be single for eternity IS a kind of sin.  At least according to a few prophets.  It prevents you from progressing.  And one opposite of progression is damnation (another being regression).

So, then strict homosexuality (rather than bisexuality) might be a bar to full godhood, but not the Celestial Kingdom.

 

As for Bisexuality, it doesn't change the fact that the homosexual relationship violates the eternal law of life.

If it's not preventing you from also having a heterosexual relationship, then how so?

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My son approached me a few years ago and confessed to being attracted to males. He is trying to be a non-practicing homosexual (he is still active LDS). During one of our many conversations, I told him that I have tried to imagine what it would be like to be in his shoes. How difficult would it be if any form of heterosexual intimate relations was considered a sin? I can't imagine having no approved method of satisfying my intense desire to be with a woman. Consequently I have told my son that I will not judge him in this regard.

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So, then strict homosexuality (rather than bisexuality) might be a bar to full godhood, but not the Celestial Kingdom.

 

If it's not preventing you from also having a heterosexual relationship, then how so?

 

1. No.  Homosexuality as already described violates the law of life and is therefore sinful.  Entrance into the Celestial Kingdom requires that we be free of sin, either through repentance or perfection.

 

2. Because once again you are engaging in a sexual relationship (sex being eternally existent to create life) that can never in all the eternities create life.  Your Bisexuality argument is like saying, well I pay my tithing but I also rob people.  The sin still exists.

 

In the end it's very simple - homosexuality is a sin, not because of lust (heterosexuality has that too), but because it cannot in this life or the next fulfill the measure of its existence - to create life.  It causes people to use there God-given ability to create life for purposes that cannot create life.  It is the fruitless fig tree and is cursed as a result.  It is a selfish act by the couples as it is done to please only themselves. 

 

Providing bodies for spirit children is focused on others (as well as themselves) - it fulfills God's work and glory, it provides for spirit children, it requires sacrifice on the part of the parents (especially the mother), in short, it furthers life!

 

(And please don't compare it to fertility issues which are a medical condition and will not exist in the eternities).

Homosexuality misuses sex for purposes it was not intended for.  It is to create life.

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Actually, that's exactly what Hugh Nibley taught in Approaching Zion.  It surprised me too, but upon checking his references he is correct.

 

Nibley is half right, and not the last word. Read the book and he is a (or was) a great mind, but just as subject to error as anyone.

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My son approached me a few years ago and confessed to being attracted to males. He is trying to be a non-practicing homosexual (he is still active LDS). During one of our many conversations, I told him that I have tried to imagine what it would be like to be in his shoes. How difficult would it be if any form of heterosexual intimate relations was considered a sin? I can't imagine having no approved method of satisfying my intense desire to be with a woman. Consequently I have told my son that I will not judge him in this regard.

 

Amen.

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Nibley is half right, and not the last word. Read the book and he is a (or was) a great mind, but just as subject to error as anyone.

 

Yes, but he made so many less errors doctrinally than most... ;)

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Not going into complete details here, but my stepson, who is gay, just lost his partner to suicide after 7 years.  Irrelevant I am sure is the fact that he was LDS (my stepson is not).  But that being said, we cannot know ...really know..what it would be like to have someone say you are evil, bad..because you love.  I know the world isn't fair..but we should try.

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In the end it's very simple - homosexuality is a sin, not because of lust (heterosexuality has that too), but because it cannot in this life or the next fulfill the measure of its existence - to create life.

 

CFR.   Was there a revelation I'm not aware of, detailing exactly who and by what means, life is created in the next life?

Edited by Rock_N_Roll

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My son approached me a few years ago and confessed to being attracted to males. He is trying to be a non-practicing homosexual (he is still active LDS). During one of our many conversations, I told him that I have tried to imagine what it would be like to be in his shoes. How difficult would it be if any form of heterosexual intimate relations was considered a sin? I can't imagine having no approved method of satisfying my intense desire to be with a woman. Consequently I have told my son that I will not judge him in this regard.

You are right not to judge him but you could at least help him to weigh the pros and cons between having an eternal companion of either sex.

Like, with a same sex companion he can't have any children, because it takes someone of the opposite sex to do that with. They could maybe take another couple's child, if they could get away with it, but they would never be able to create a child together, just the 2 of them.

And you could also explain that there is nothing at all wrong with realizing a man is sexually attractive, as many of opposite sex would attest. Just because someone else of same sex doesn't think that man is sexually attractive doesn't mean he isn't, generally. Some people just have a problem with being able to see that someone of the same sex is sexually attractive to someone else of the same sex.

I believe our Father realizes we are all sexually attractive, in some way.

Edited by Ahab

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Here's the problem:  you can define yourself out of any problem you want to.  When a child has a right to be raised in a stable home by parents who are married to one another and who honor the marriage covenant, it is child abuse to stray from that covenant under the language I cited.

 

Excuse it any way you want, but when your selfish desires trump the needs and rights of the child, you are a child abuser regardless what kind of pretty language you use to cover your sin.

 

 I emphatically believe that child neglect is a sin.

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Choosing to be single for eternity IS a kind of sin.  At least according to a few prophets.  It prevents you from progressing.  And one opposite of progression is damnation (another being regression).

 

As for Bisexuality, it doesn't change the fact that the homosexual relationship violates the eternal law of life.

 

Interesting.  How do you feel about birth control.  Is it just as sinful as homosexual or bisexual behavior since it too violates the eternal law of life?

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You are right not to judge him but you could at least help him to weigh the pros and cons between having an eternal companion of either sex.

Like, with a same sex companion he can't have any children, because it takes someone of the opposite sex to do that with. They could maybe take another couple's child, if they could get away with it, but they would never be able to create a child together, just the 2 of them.

 

“If they could get away with it”?  Are you talking about abduction here?  There is that thing called “adoption” that is legally available to SS couples in many areas.

 

You might also explain to him that with an opposite sex companion (since he is attracted to males), he would likely live a life void of true love and companionship, and that such a relationship has a high probability of ending badly.   (See California Boy’s life experience as related by him in other threads). 

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Not going into complete details here, but my stepson, who is gay, just lost his partner to suicide after 7 years.  Irrelevant I am sure is the fact that he was LDS (my stepson is not).  But that being said, we cannot know ...really know..what it would be like to have someone say you are evil, bad..because you love.  I know the world isn't fair..but we should try.

 

Very sad.

 

And based on the lengthy counseling I did with a gay young man in my ward, I would suggest that we all underestimate the damage that has been done through decades of homosexual condemnation.

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Here's the problem:  you can define yourself out of any problem you want to.  When a child has a right to be raised in a stable home by parents who are married to one another and who honor the marriage covenant, it is child abuse to stray from that covenant under the language I cited.

I agree that a child has the right to be raised in a stable and loving home, but I think that marriage is an arbitrary distinction.

 

Excuse it any way you want, but when your selfish desires trump the needs and rights of the child, you are a child abuser regardless what kind of pretty language you use to cover your sin.

If you're going to bring me personally into this, you should know that I'm demisexual, and the LDS understanding of chastity seems to be part of my essential nature. I'm just not convinced that deviating from those norms are a sin, but I haven't done anything (yet) that needs covering up.

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Interesting.  How do you feel about birth control.  Is it just as sinful as homosexual or bisexual behavior since it too violates the eternal law of life?

 

Well, it's not Church doctrine that's for sure....at least not anymore....

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Well, it's not Church doctrine that's for sure....at least not anymore....

What kind of birth control violates the eternal law of life? Certain types are certainly wrong while others are not.

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In the end it's very simple - homosexuality is a sin, not because of lust (heterosexuality has that too), but because it cannot in this life or the next fulfill the measure of its existence - to create life.  It causes people to use there God-given ability to create life for purposes that cannot create life.  It is the fruitless fig tree and is cursed as a result.  It is a selfish act by the couples as it is done to please only themselves.

The other measure of its existence is the formation and maintenance of interpersonal bonds, and it fulfills that with either homosexual or heterosexual unions.

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CFR.   Was there a revelation I'm not aware of, detailing exactly who and by what means, life is created in the next life?

 

  • The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood- was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 8:115)
  • In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of discourses, 8:211)

     

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The other measure of its existence is the formation and maintenance of interpersonal bonds, and it fulfills that with either homosexual or heterosexual unions.

 

Find that ANYWHERE in the scriptures referring to sex (not marriage).  Sex in the scriptures has never been about personal bonds.  It is only used for "begetting".

 

Not saying I personally agree with that, but since we are supposed to be talking gospel doctrine here....

Edited by JLHPROF

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Very sad.

 

And based on the lengthy counseling I did with a gay young man in my ward, I would suggest that we all underestimate the damage that has been done through decades of homosexual condemnation.

Lets properly define it please. Same sex attraction hasn't really been condemned. The behavior however has always been condemned. As it has become socially acceptable by ungodly worldy standards, this still doesnt justify one to live with homosexual behavior and feel he has been damaged because the righteous condemn it.

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