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Daniel2

Polygamy Criminalization Ruled Unconstitutional

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You mean let's leave it as it's been for about 200 years out of the earths entire existence...?

Whatever that means.

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Whatever that means.

 

Exactly what I said.  This idea that monogamy is the "norm" is not borne out by history.  Monogamy didn't become the norm in the world until hundreds of years after Christ.  It is very much an invention of the pagan Greco-Roman's and adopted by the world as a whole very slowly.

 

Polygamy was the norm for the first 4000 years (Adam to Christ) and from Christ to the late Middle Ages it was still accepted by most non Greco-Roman influenced societies.

 

The idea that God established monogamy with polygamy as the exception is not historically true.

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Exactly what I said.  This idea that monogamy is the "norm" is not borne out by history.  Monogamy didn't become the norm in the world until hundreds of years after Christ.  It is very much an invention of the pagan Greco-Roman's and adopted by the world as a whole very slowly.

 

Polygamy was the norm for the first 4000 years (Adam to Christ) and from Christ to the late Middle Ages it was still accepted by most non Greco-Roman influenced societies.

 

The idea that God established monogamy with polygamy as the exception is not historically true.

 

Actually monogamy was the norm; it is just that most societies allowed some men (usually the wealthy) to practice polygamy while most everyone else practiced monogamy.Very few societies have or ever have had a high enough male mortality rate to institute polygamy for most people.

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This is somewhat comical to me. Do we pick and choose which word of God we obey? David and Soloman had uncounted wives. Then Paul talked about a Deacon needing to be the husband of one wife. Then God forbid Muhammad PBUH to have more than one wife until he whined and appealed to God, who relented and allowed 4 wives. Then, in the book of Jacob, God says that man can have one wife, and then, not even a score of years later Joseph Smith has, some say, 50 of them!

 

Since men seem not to obey God no matter what he says, why not make God, god? I just don't know any women who would want to be part of a harem, though I have known women who were, and women have astonishing ability to adjust to things we can not change.

 

I suppose that women could adjust to it more easily when it is either do it or starve. I have known women who were so abused and misused that they would do anything to get away from it.

 

Since men find a way to rationalize any sort of conduct, perhaps we could all agree that no abuse occur, that it all be voluntary, that the boys not be cast out, and the number of wives be limited to 4?

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Then, in the book of Jacob, God says that man can have one wife, and then, not even a score of years later Joseph Smith has, some say, 50 of them!

 

Ummm....Jacob's address predated Joseph Smith bringing back polygamy by over 2,000 years.

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Since men find a way to rationalize any sort of conduct, perhaps we could all agree that no abuse occur, that it all be voluntary, that the boys not be cast out, and the number of wives be limited to 4?

 

Agreed....welp, glad we sorted that out. The world should be perfect within the next day or so.

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Ummm....Jacob's address predated Joseph Smith bringing back polygamy by over 2,000 years.

Oh, thank you. But I still do not see why the number of years are important. The scripture was inspired by God. He said that God demanded it. I am having trouble with that. I like Mormons. They are nice folk. I just no longer believe it all.

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Agreed....welp, glad we sorted that out. The world should be perfect within the next day or so.

You are the smart fellow aren't you.

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You are the smart fellow aren't you.

 

Thank you. People call me smart all the time but they usually append another word onto the end of smart-

 

Usually this word makes me doubt they are complimenting my intellectual prowess.

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Thank you. People call me smart all the time but they usually append another word onto the end of smart-

 

Usually this word makes me doubt they are complimenting my intellectual prowess.

So, you are one of those sadistic Mormons, bent on proving their prowess? Fortunately most Mormons I meet are very nice.

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So, you are one of those sadistic Mormons, bent on proving their prowess? Fortunately most Mormons I meet are very nice.

 

I don't think you got my joke. Probably my fault. :(

 

Think smart-alec and other less charitable terms that start with smart. It was self-deprecating.

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I don't think you got my joke. Probably my fault. :sad:

 

Think smart-alec and other less charitable terms that start with smart. It was self-deprecating.

The Mormon Sisters I first met would not allow me to speak in terms that were self-deprecating.  I was on my way to ... never mind. It is not seemly to speak of it. From the point of view of brain washing and conditioning, the Mormons, used by God, healed me of so much pain, made me whole like I never had been after that man ... Our self talk can make us or make us miserable. It is a choice we make to accept the healing of Heavenly Father or not.

 

It is a hard thing to resolve what God did for me by the Mormons,  with the half membership that they were willing to give. Making the lame excuse that "further revelation" is needed.  They lost credibility with me by the pain they gave.

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I know you're not going to like me very much for saying this, but, no one can hurt you without your consent.

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Let's stick to the topic, please. ;-)

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Ummm....Jacob's address predated Joseph Smith bringing back polygamy by over 2,000 years.

 

When it comes to Book of Mormon polygamy, people focus too much on Jacob 2 where wicked men were no longer permitted to practice polygamy.

 

But the BOM has other examples - were the Jaredites polygamists for instance?:

 

Ether 1:40-41 describes the Brother of Jared having families but Jared have a family.

Not surprising since Ether 6:20 says that the Brother of Jared had 22 children, where Jared had but 12.  The more righteous Brother of Jared lived the higher law and was able to part the veil by his faith.

 

Jacob 2:23-24 makes it clear that it was the polygamy like David (with Bathsheba) and Solomon (with his strange wives) that God disapproved of.  He says clearly that they had misunderstood the scriptures.

And verses 31-32 tell WHY God outlawed polygamy.  Not because it wasn't the standard or it was wrong but because the men were treating their wives like crap.

 

Culturally and historically polygamy was the norm until that pagan example of a  Roman empire stopped it.  Even after the Apostolic times and the Roman Empire was replaced by the Holy Roman Empire it was the combining of the cultures that gave us monogamy as the standard.  God had nothing to do with the establishment of monogamy as a standard.  Whenever as in Jacob 2 God requires monogamy it is because the people were unworthy or unwilling to live polygamy.  Monogamy is tithing to polygamy's law of consecration.

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This is somewhat comical to me. Do we pick and choose which word of God we obey? David and Soloman had uncounted wives. Then Paul talked about a Deacon needing to be the husband of one wife. Then God forbid Muhammad PBUH to have more than one wife until he whined and appealed to God, who relented and allowed 4 wives. Then, in the book of Jacob, God says that man can have one wife, and then, not even a score of years later Joseph Smith has, some say, 50 of them!

 

Since men seem not to obey God no matter what he says, why not make God, god? I just don't know any women who would want to be part of a harem, though I have known women who were, and women have astonishing ability to adjust to things we can not change.

 

I suppose that women could adjust to it more easily when it is either do it or starve. I have known women who were so abused and misused that they would do anything to get away from it.

 

Since men find a way to rationalize any sort of conduct, perhaps we could all agree that no abuse occur, that it all be voluntary, that the boys not be cast out, and the number of wives be limited to 4?

You do realize you are making a wild generalization about all Fundamentalist Mormons based on highly sensationalized news reports about a small segment of one group... right?

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You do realize you are making a wild generalization about all Fundamentalist Mormons based on highly sensationalized news reports about a small segment of one group... right?

I would not classify it as wild. Don't think that Mormons invented polygamy. Muslims did, do and will likely continue to do it even in America. This from personal experience. Muslims follow the Quran and it flatly states that the husband can have 4 wives. Muslims ignore marital laws in  America. I am quite sure that certain Mormons, even main stream Mormons practice it if they decide to. I am not casting a negative light on any who practice it as long as abuses do not occur. And having known SLC Mormons whose  Father or Mother came from that sort of family, it is no big deal to me.

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I would not classify it as wild. Don't think that Mormons invented polygamy. Muslims did, do and will likely continue to do it even in America. This from personal experience. Muslims follow the Quran and it flatly states that the husband can have 4 wives. Muslims ignore marital laws in  America. I am quite sure that certain Mormons, even main stream Mormons practice it if they decide to. I am not casting a negative light on any who practice it as long as abuses do not occur. And having known SLC Mormons whose  Father or Mother came from that sort of family, it is no big deal to me.

 

Of course Muslims didn't invent it.  You can find it all over the world reaching back thousands of years.  All Muhammed did was create the innovation limiting the number of wives to 4.

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I believe the four came from an older statue where "many wives" in the OT, which was seen as condemned by God, was defined as more than four.

And if a Mormon practices plural marriage, he is not mainstream by definition.

I have a number of polygamous ancestors (ones that I know of, likely tons more when you get back a couple thousand years there are no records of).

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If there was ever a time when polygamy could have been a good alternative it was after WW1  and WW2. The following is a link to an article that speaks of the serious excess of women after the wars and what became of many of them. Be warned. Mature content.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-481882/Condemned-virgins-The-million-women-robbed-war.html

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I believe the four came from an older statue where "many wives" in the OT, which was seen as condemned by God, was defined as more than four.

And if a Mormon practices plural marriage, he is not mainstream by definition.

I have a number of polygamous ancestors (ones that I know of, likely tons more when you get back a couple thousand years there are no records of).

The only Biblical rule concerning how many wives you can have is the ability to fairly care for all of them. You can take as many as you can equably take care of. 

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The only Biblical rule concerning how many wives you can have is the ability to fairly care for all of them. You can take as many as you can equably take care of. 

My only issue with it is that I will not be part of it. I lived in a loosely polygamous house for a while and would do it again.

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My only issue with it is that I will not be part of it. I lived in a loosely polygamous house for a while and would do it again.

 

That is the great thing about the scriptural practice of polygamy... you don't have to do it. If any force is involved anywhere, it is no longer valid and is sin.

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That is the great thing about the scriptural practice of polygamy... you don't have to do it. If any force is involved anywhere, it is no longer valid and is sin.

Sigh.

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Sigh.

OK? 

I believe what is happening is you think you know what I believe, and are responding to me based on what you think is in my mind.

I am sorry you have had bad experiences in life, we all have crappy things happen to us- the trick is in how you respond.

I pray you find the peace that you have so desperately sought all these years going from religion to religion. God loves you and is watching out for you... just trust Him.

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