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strappinglad

A Sense Of Foreboding

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With the recent striking of several tinder boxes in Ukraine and the Gaza strip and today's downing of the airliner, I am starting to get that uneasy feeling that something ugly and long lasting is on the world's doorstep. One hundred years ago circumstances led to 50+ years of war. Am I alone in this foreboding?

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With the recent striking of several tinder boxes in Ukraine and the Gaza strip and today's downing of the airliner, I am starting to get that uneasy feeling that something ugly and long lasting is on the world's doorstep. One hundred years ago circumstances led to 50+ years of war. Am I alone in this foreboding?

Not necessarily.  That said, to use a framework proposed by Steven R. Covey, I try to not worry unduly about things that are within my circle of concern, but which are not yet (and in the cases of conflict in Gaza and in Ukraine, respectively, are not likely to be) within my circle of influence.  My perspective is a little different, because I'm a single guy with no dependents/descendants.  Are there people I would miss if my time were to come relatively swiftly?  Are there things I would regret not having had (or not having taken) the chance to do? Surely.  However, the world to come promises to be far better than this one, and I have some intractable challenges that, perhaps, are unlikely to be resolved until the next life anyway.  Frankly, in that sense, death holds little fear for me.

 

As for world events, these things (at least in a general sense) were prophesied: "All things shall be in commotion, and men's hearts shall fail them," et cetera.  "If ye are prepared, ye shall not fear": Am I as prepared as I need to be?  Perhaps not, but all I can do is do my best and leave the rest in the hands of God. If I'm called upon to attempt to resolve an issue that is within my circle of influence as well as within my circle of concern, I will do my best, recognizing that many events are outside my control, and I certainly cannot abridge (and would not, even if I could) the agency of my brothers and sisters, even when they choose to use that agency unwisely.  (Christ died for their opportunity to make even those choices.)  Do I understand exactly what God meant when He said, "All flesh is in mine hand"?  Not exactly, but if He will note even a sparrow's fall, then who am I to question such an all-encompassing statement? And I believe the Apostle Paul meant what he said when he said that "All things work together for the good of them that love God."  (Not just the "good" things, but all things.)

 

I love this, from Elder Orson F. Whitney:

 

“No pain that we suffer, no trial that we experience is wasted. It ministers to our education, to the development of such qualities as patience, faith, fortitude and humility. All that we suffer and all that we endure, especially when we endure it patiently, builds up our characters, purifies our hearts, expands our souls, and makes us more tender and charitable, more worthy to be called the children of God … and it is through sorrow and suffering, toil and tribulation, that we gain the education that we come here to acquire.”

 

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With the recent striking of several tinder boxes in Ukraine and the Gaza strip and today's downing of the airliner, I am starting to get that uneasy feeling that something ugly and long lasting is on the world's doorstep. One hundred years ago circumstances led to 50+ years of war. Am I alone in this foreboding?

 

Nope but I have had it for half dozen years.

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I don't think the world is on the door step to disaster right now anymore than it was 100 years ago.  I think that when we become adults we start to pay attention to the crud that's happening, when we never did when we were young, so it starts to seem like more stuff is going wrong than it was decades before, even though it's really not.

 

However, given my belief in an eventual 'end-times', I don't doubt that hard times will be coming.

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With the recent striking of several tinder boxes in Ukraine and the Gaza strip and today's downing of the airliner, I am starting to get that uneasy feeling that something ugly and long lasting is on the world's doorstep. One hundred years ago circumstances led to 50+ years of war. Am I alone in this foreboding?

 

It does appear to me to be very much like the BoM situation just before Christ came when everyone divided into tribes.  However, these things come and go.  At times, it appears the End Times are just around the corner.  At other times, things are resolved and we are back to normal.  I would say though that we are generally progressing towards more difficult times in spite of the occaisional deceleration.

 

With the Gaza situation, it's in Israel's best interest to maintain the status quo since it is surrounded by enemies.  They'll put down Hamas for a while but not destroy them.  The real threat to Israel now is from ISIS which if left to establish itself long term, will gather everyone in for a great and terrible war.

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With the recent striking of several tinder boxes in Ukraine and the Gaza strip and today's downing of the airliner, I am starting to get that uneasy feeling that something ugly and long lasting is on the world's doorstep. One hundred years ago circumstances led to 50+ years of war. Am I alone in this foreboding?

Yeah, I feel it too. Make sure your food and water supply is up.

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Just prior to the end of my mission a few nations had begun to rattle their sabers.  Upon hearing about this while serving in Tarbes, France I became quite agitated that evening thinking of all the lost dreams due to fear that I would return from my mission only to be called to war.  Upon waking the next morning I experienced a serenity a peace as I was looking out the window and seeing the same birds that were always there, still singing and flitting from one branch to the next just has they had always done oblivious to what was occurring in the world.  That sweet voice confirmed again that I was in his hands and it did not matter what was happening around me I was his child and this suffering would be for but a short time.  

 

These feelings of disquiet that come upon the saints and followers of Christ can be beneficial if they bring us to a closer relationship with God.  However, if it causes us to fear and tremble we become even more unprofitable servants to do his will for we are stuck in place of fear.  

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With the recent striking of several tinder boxes in Ukraine and the Gaza strip and today's downing of the airliner, I am starting to get that uneasy feeling that something ugly and long lasting is on the world's doorstep. One hundred years ago circumstances led to 50+ years of war. Am I alone in this foreboding?

 

Fifty plus years? The Great War, or World War I was finished in four years as was World War II as far as the Americas were concerned. "The Cold War" never erupted into anything near as warm as some expected.

 

A year is as a thousand days with Christ. The Passion and Resurrection are not distant memories to the friends of God in Heaven.

 

I have been hearing that it is the end times since I first thought of being a believer many years ago. Nothing is new. You don't remember all the prophecies "fulfilled" when Carter and Sadat were meeting in Camp David? Maybe this is it? Probably not, in my opinion.

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Just prior to the end of my mission a few nations had begun to rattle their sabers.  Upon hearing about this while serving in Tarbes, France I became quite agitated that evening thinking of all the lost dreams due to fear that I would return from my mission only to be called to war.  Upon waking the next morning I experienced a serenity a peace as I was looking out the window and seeing the same birds that were always there, still singing and flitting from one branch to the next just has they had always done oblivious to what was occurring in the world.  That sweet voice confirmed again that I was in his hands and it did not matter what was happening around me I was his child and this suffering would be for but a short time.  

 

These feelings of disquiet that come upon the saints and followers of Christ can be beneficial if they bring us to a closer relationship with God.  However, if it causes us to fear and tremble we become even more unprofitable servants to do his will for we are stuck in place of fear.  

 

That was a really sweet post.  We should all focuse on what we can change and trust in God for the things we can not change.  

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I suppose you guys are right. There is really nothing I can do about it. Why be concerned over the potential destruction of millions? I mean the 20th century saw the deaths of millions by disease and famine and war and so it has always been, well maybe not to the extent seen then .I will ignore my 'spider sense' and stop looking for budding fig leaves.

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It does appear to me to be very much like the BoM situation just before Christ came when everyone divided into tribes. However, these things come and go. At times, it appears the End Times are just around the corner. At other times, things are resolved and we are back to normal. I would say though that we are generally progressing towards more difficult times in spite of the occaisional deceleration.

With the Gaza situation, it's in Israel's best interest to maintain the status quo since it is surrounded by enemies. They'll put down Hamas for a while but not destroy them. The real threat to Israel now is from ISIS which if left to establish itself long term, will gather everyone in for a great and terrible war.

Am I selfish if I want other countries to fight their own battles and not the US to go in any longer? It seems that when we do the more hated we are.

I"m all for helping in times of genocide though, which probably coincides with the wars out there.

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I've had a sense of foreboding for a while. Especially in recent months.

 

But I've also had a sense of optimism. Because Zion will be established. Hope will Spring forth from heaven and truth out of the earth.

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I suppose you guys are right. There is really nothing I can do about it. Why be concerned over the potential destruction of millions? I mean the 20th century saw the deaths of millions by disease and famine and war and so it has always been, well maybe not to the extent seen then .I will ignore my 'spider sense' and stop looking for budding fig leaves.

OK.  Our mistake.   :huh::unknw:  Your fear and dread are entirely justified, more so now than at any other time in human history. What do you propose to do about the roots of that fear and dread?  Mediate peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, at which the attendance of all parties is to be mandated until a solution has been reached?  Do the same thing with the Russians and the Ukranians?  Do the same thing with respect to all geopolitical disagreements and unrest (North and South Korea, China and any number of its neighbors, Cuba (and a few other Marxist-leaning states in the Western Hemisphere) and every other country in the hemisphere?) You seem fired up and ready to call the rest of us out on our complacency.  Do you have any suggestions as to potential solutions that have a reasonable chance of succeeding?  How can we be of help to you?

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The more things change, the more things stay the same. Such are the ways of the world, until Christ comes back.

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I suppose you guys are right. There is really nothing I can do about it. Why be concerned over the potential destruction of millions? I mean the 20th century saw the deaths of millions by disease and famine and war and so it has always been, well maybe not to the extent seen then .I will ignore my 'spider sense' and stop looking for budding fig leaves.

 

If you don't want to hear the answer, then don't ask the question.  :D

 

I remember reading where Lorenzo Snow said (when people, even way back then, were overcome with a sense of foreboding and were worrying about what horrors the future might hold) something about how no one knows when it's all going to fade to black for a while, and that we need to be prepared as far as we can be, but that he was still planting cherry trees (letting people know that there was still much good to hope for and plan for in the future).

 

We can do what we can to make things better, and we can be prepared for hard times, but there are some worries that serve absolutely no purpose (either because they will never come to pass, or because there is absolutely nothing to we can do about it if they do) and rather than help us, all they do is steal joy and life from our future.

 

If you feel like the Spirit is telling you to be prepared, then of course, do it!  But don't let foreboding or pessimism ruin your day.  :)

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Am I selfish if I want other countries to fight their own battles and not the US to go in any longer?

 

 

No.  But historically, at the very least we have to fight some battles to keep things from spreading.  If the locals can't handle ISIS, I predict we will have to go in.  We are, in a sense, already there with 1000 troops helping Iraq yet they have tried to retake Tikrit and still can't do it.  We needed to stay longer and it would have been cheaper in the long run.

 

 

It seems that when we do the more hated we are.

 

 

Not necessarily.  Don't believe all the propaganda.  Our intervention in Iraq, for example, created a lot of fans and when the population saw what we were accomplishing and the freedoms and prosperity we brought, we actually became quite popular except of course among the supporters of Al-Qaeda/Muslim Brotherhood and since they controlled the media, all you heard from the main sources was negativity.

 

Fast forward to the 'Arab Spring'.  Everyone in the Middle East was optimistic because of what we had accomplished in Iraq and Afghanistan.  But in Egypt, we tore down the existing government, which was at peace with Israel, in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood.  The Muslim Brotherhood has a lot of power because they are very well organized and terrorist supported, yet everyone else there hates the Muslim Brotherhood.  We almost lost Egypt to a Syrian type of civil war because of our ill-advised meddling but thankfully the people of Egypt recovered their senses and while we are back to square one, we didn't lose Egypt.

 

We also supported the wrong people in Libya and we may never get that country back.

 

Syria is the worst case and because of our support for the wrong people, ISIS was born and there is a three-way civil war there.  Those who truly want democracy, while we should be sympathetic, are not numerous enough.

 

We failed to support Iraq and withdrew too soon to see a Sunni/Shi'ite reconciliation.  ISIS saw an opportunity and now they are there too. Some claim dividing that country on religious lines is the solution.  It's not.

 

One positive out of this is the emergance of the Kurds.  They are a lot like Israel so far.  Peaceful and tolerant unless attacked. Multiple religions can co-exist there.  They've been like that for a long time and when we were in Iraq, we benefitted from their co-operation.  When you think about the OT diaspora, Daniel and Esther and the like, one can't help but wonder if there is Hebrew blood in the Kurds.

 

 

I"m all for helping in times of genocide though, which probably coincides with the wars out there.

 

 

Everyone hates Hamas/Fatah/PLO, including the Arab leadership. In times past, they were supported in order to divert people's attention away from local problems.  Now everyone sees them for the terrorist thugs they are, especially in Egypt where Hamas had supported it's parent organization, the Muslim Brotherhood.

 

Hamas is broke, having spent all their resources on warlording, terrorism, and cronyism and can't pay the bills to run the government.  The Palestinian Authority, which Hamas drove out of Gaza, has offered to pay some bills but only with concessions. Hamas won't give up their ill-gotten authority and are desperate to get Israel to attack to generate support and donations.  Israel knows this which is why they treat the Gazans the best of any wartime population in history. However, with thousands of rockets and shells being fired every year by Hamas, they have to occasionally go in and clean up but they will not destroy Hamas.  That is for the Gazan people to do; to finally realize they've been scammed and used and rise up and establish a real deomcracy.

 

Israel has essentially given the Palestinians their state by default and these people have wasted their resources and credibility on attacking Israel.  If they want a port.  If they want goods to come in unsearched. If they want Israel to stop defending themselves. All they have to do is stop attacking Israel, stop propagandizing their population to hate the Jews, and start investing in an economy.  If they opt to send suicide bombers into civilian buses, pizzerias, and discotheques, they will get (and have gotten) a wall.  It's as simple as that.

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Except for sentence #3 in post #10 , I was serious. A few years ago I looked at the Northern Ireland problems and decided that the only solution was a nuclear one. History proved me wrong. I am not overcome with worry and am quite willing to let the Lord work it all out in His own good time. I just remember that WW 1 started with an assassination but continued because , once the troop trains started moving, no one was willing to call them back. Russia is poised to invade the Ukraine and I believe has the goal to reestablish the USSR or at least Czarist Russia. They will use native Russians in many bordering countries to justify using influence or intervention. Smells a lot like the excuses used by You Know Who . I am not so concerned about Israel's entrance into Gaza as I am it's possible striking at Iran's nuclear facilities and a retaliation using WMD of one form or another. I am just trying to anticipate what action Israel might take which will turn the whole world against it as prophesied . We seem to have a long way to go but things can happen quicker than thought. I figured the Berlin Wall would last long after my lifetime, but it's been 20 years since it was demolished.

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A few years ago I looked at the Northern Ireland problems and decided that the only solution was a nuclear one. History proved me wrong. I am not overcome with worry and am quite willing to let the Lord work it all out in His own good time.

 

The difference is Northern Ireland didn't hold a pivotal place in biblical end times prophecies.  The middle east does and events seem to be headed rapidly toward fulfillment.

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Things will happen in the Lord's time frame. There certainly are quite a few undercurrents that are troubling in the world, but there is also clear evidence of the hand of the Lord protecting and blessing those who look to Him and not to the world.

 

I've been impressed that despite our increasing ability to self-destruct, things continually are "mended" before they have a chance to push us over the edge. It's become evident to me that the Lord is not quite ready for things to happen as prophesied, though it does feel like it's getting closer. The increase in the use of technology to limit freedoms is particularly troubling to me, and I suspect that the Lord will allow that trend to go only so far before it needs to be corrected.

 

For instance, when the stock market imploded in 2008, it very much had the potential to start a chain of events that could have brought the global economy to a halt. When the depth of exposure of the banking system to bad debt was revealed, there was a short time where letters of credit between banks (which are necessary as short term loan backing for commodities shipping) weren't being accepted. The banks no longer trusted each other. When you can't get the short term loans to ship raw materials, then the pipeline starts to quickly dry up, and with the just-in-time global economy, things can start to shut down in a matter of weeks. That can be disastrous. However, in that case, it was interesting to see it get "resolved" rather quickly, and the pipeline experienced only small disruptions.

 

I don't see the problem being wars and conflicts so much. I see the great danger being the house of cards our economies are built on. Wars are devastating, but tend to be localized. When the pipeline dries up and there's no food or fuel and the electricity goes dark, you get widespread chaos and rioting, which is far more destructive. I tend to keep more of an eye on those types of things, rather than what the next blowup in the Middle East is. I suspect that's what's going to trigger some significant changes.

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Except for sentence #3 in post #10 , I was serious. A few years ago I looked at the Northern Ireland problems and decided that the only solution was a nuclear one. History proved me wrong. I am not overcome with worry and am quite willing to let the Lord work it all out in His own good time. I just remember that WW 1 started with an assassination but continued because , once the troop trains started moving, no one was willing to call them back. Russia is poised to invade the Ukraine and I believe has the goal to reestablish the USSR or at least Czarist Russia. They will use native Russians in many bordering countries to justify using influence or intervention. Smells a lot like the excuses used by You Know Who . I am not so concerned about Israel's entrance into Gaza as I am it's possible striking at Iran's nuclear facilities and a retaliation using WMD of one form or another. I am just trying to anticipate what action Israel might take which will turn the whole world against it as prophesied . We seem to have a long way to go but things can happen quicker than thought. I figured the Berlin Wall would last long after my lifetime, but it's been 20 years since it was demolished.

 

Reading some of Putin's quotes about the rocket attack on the commercial airliner, it really does appear like he's taking a page from that playbook from the late 1930's. It's absolutely amazing to hear how he's spinning this. If it worked then, perhaps it can work now.

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I don't think the world is on the door step to disaster right now anymore than it was 100 years ago.  I think that when we become adults we start to pay attention to the crud that's happening, when we never did when we were young, so it starts to seem like more stuff is going wrong than it was decades before, even though it's really not.

 

However, given my belief in an eventual 'end-times', I don't doubt that hard times will be coming.

Hello bluebell...

I think we're right in the middle of hard times... my sis and I always say... right out of the scriptures, i.e. wars/rumors of wars, people turning against people... I think things will just keep marching along getting worse.  We're also told in the scriptures that if we follow the commandments and the Savior we can have peace in this life regardless of what is going on around us (Sec 45 in D&C)...

You do have a point that we now have the ability to get the news right away so it's in our  face all the time unlike years ago... but I do beieve there is more going on now and will continue to be so.  I can't get political here... so will  stop...

 

GG... from my little corner in the Pacific Northwest..

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Hello bluebell...

I think we're right in the middle of hard times... my sis and I always say... right out of the scriptures, i.e. wars/rumors of wars, people turning against people... I think things will just keep marching along getting worse.  We're also told in the scriptures that if we follow the commandments and the Savior we can have peace in this life regardless of what is going on around us (Sec 45 in D&C)...

You do have a point that we now have the ability to get the news right away so it's in our  face all the time unlike years ago... but I do beieve there is more going on now and will continue to be so.  I can't get political here... so will  stop...

 

GG... from my little corner in the Pacific Northwest..

 

There might be more horribleness than there was a couple decades ago, but i have trouble buying it.

 

I read an article a few years back on how the news has a huge impact on people's perceptions of bad news.  They don't report it based on the actual percentage of it happening-they report it based on the interest that people place on the subject matter.

 

An easy example is the whole 'summer of the shark' thing that happened in 2001.  That year the news went absolutely nuts reporting shark attacks, to the point that on the major news and national stations, it was the 3rd most reported topic for the entire year (behind 9-11 obviously and the Chandra Levy case).  It was huge and people were panicked about how dangerous it suddenly was to swim in the ocean and all the horrible reasons why sharks were eating up every human they ran into.

 

The problem though is that that year actually had less shark attacks and less deaths from shark attacks than the previous year (76 shark attacks reported in 2001, but 85 attacks in 2000.  5 people were killed in attacks in 2001, while 12 died in 2000).  Summer of the shark was completely fabricated by the news media because people were enamored with the subject and it made good ratings.  All the hoopla about how things were getting worse between people and sharks was pure fiction.

 

There have been documented cases of this same thing happening before and since.  Other popular subjects the news loves to report out of sync with the actual times it happens are child abductions and child murders.  And wars-the world isn't really any more war-ish than it has been for the last 1000 years (in fact, in some ways it's the most peaceful that it's ever been).  We just hear about every little conflict now when we didn't used to, and we are personally involved in more conflicts so they register more threat and therefore more danger to us than say, the incredibly violent and bloody 30 years war in Europe does when we read about it in history books.

 

So yeah, while i do believe the world will eventually get pretty darn crappy, I don't think the news is going to herald it's coming as much as we think it might.

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I personally feel that with the four blood moons, the last two falling in a Sabbath year, with a solar eclipse in between, that around September 2015 we will see the complete collapse of our economy, which will lead to race and poverty riots that will cause Marshall Law throughout the land. As things get worse, Marshall Law will be non-effective and violence will increase. 

But there is hope...

I believe 2017, a Jubilee Year, will see YHVH sweep the Centerplace of those who are not worthy to remain and reclaim the land as His own. I believe He will then call to the pure in heart to gather to Jackson County to finally begin the building up of the Holy City. It will be the one place of refuge as violence spreads throughout the world (D&C 45). I believe 2024-2026 will be the approximate time for the Second Coming.

Am I right or wrong? I don't know, only God knows. 
Do I fear those things? No.

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Remind me when August comes around again so i can say my goodbyes because if the economy collapse me and my daughter wont be around much longer in all likelihood.

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