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Ordain Women Group Publishes "six Discussions" To Proselytize For Its Agenda

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 Did BY say he had received an “answer” on the “end of the millennium” timing?  I recall scriptural support being cited to justify the “ban” but none to support the “millennial timing.” 

 

 

He may have indeed received such a revelation.  But we have many examples where the Lord has surprised us by changing His mind, especially when we engage him with prayerful pleading, as happened in this case.

 

But this is is never with changing fundamental principles or doctrine, only with relatively minor issues, such as timing or extent of a fulfillment of prophecy.

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The group’s debut tactic was to try to get in the males-only priesthood session of LDS General Conferences in October and again last month. On both occasions, hundreds of women, dressed in their Sunday best, walked en masse to downtown Salt Lake City’s Mormon Tabernacle to request, one by one, standby tickets to show, organizers said, their readiness for the priesthood.

 

 

 

So Ordain Women is striving instead to build grass-roots support within the 15 million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by creating small discussion groups to find more proponents among the vast majority of Mormons who say they are comfortable with the current gender roles and division of labor in the Utah-based faith.

Both times, they were rebuffed — and they said they would not make a third attempt.

 

 

Someone is a master of controlling the message:

 

"OW has demonstrated that it is very reasonable by abandoning the tactic of direct confrontation.  It has now chosen dialogue and an educational grassroots effort to influence the church's stand on women and the priesthood.  

 

They have adopted the 'Six Discussion' which is a model used by the church itself in its missionary program to demonstrate that it is still very much a part of the church."

 

It is very well crafted -- just too clever in its wording.

 

This messaging, and the production of the Six Discussions itself, leads me to conclude there are professionals (agitators)behind this group, and not just a grassroots amateur thing.  

Or, maybe I am just paranoid.

Edited by cdowis

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I don't even think we have an exact date for the PH being restored do we? 

For the Aaronic Priesthood restoration we do. It was May 15, 1829 (see Doctrine and Covenants 13:1). For the Melchizedek Priesthood restoration, at least one scholar  has narrowed it down to sometime within a 13-day period between May 16 and May 28, 1829.

 

For something with that kind of importance it seems an after thought.

 

I don't think that's a fair and just conclusion.

 

The Church of Jesus Christ would not even be formally organized on the earth for nearly another year. It is understandable that it would take a while for record keeping to be formalized and made systematic.

 

Can you place an exact date on all the momentous events in your life?

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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I'm glad the idea is at least being presented clearly enough for you to see the contrast between your position, which is also my position. Fewer people wondering about what their true motives are will mean fewer people who need to go through their 6 discussions.

I already have a lady in my ward who drops comments during Gospel Doctrine and Relief Society and takes the lessons off track. No one seems to appreciate it and it's pretty obvious what she's doing.  I'm trying to remember what scripture she was asking a question about in Relief Society.  She asked if that meant men can be closer to God than women can.  Of course not! 

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I already have a lady in my ward who drops comments during Gospel Doctrine and Relief Society and takes the lessons off track. No one seems to appreciate it and it's pretty obvious what she's doing. I'm trying to remember what scripture she was asking a question about in Relief Society. She asked if that meant men can be closer to God than women can. Of course not!

Thank you. It's comforting for me to know some women can be as silly as some men.

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He may have indeed received such a revelation.  But we have many examples where the Lord has surprised us by changing His mind, especially when we engage him with prayerful pleading, as happened in this case.

 

But this is is never with changing fundamental principles or doctrine, only with relatively minor issues, such as timing or extent of a fulfillment of prophecy.

Or perhaps location? Given that women perform priesthood ordinances inside the temple, seems like a minor thing for them to do so outside the temple right?

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Thank you. It's comforting for me to know some women can be as silly as some men.

This poor Gospel Doctrine teacher - I saw her after class one day and she looked really frazzled.  I asked her if she was OK and she said, "My heart is just racing because people were asking questions I didn't know how to answer!"  Ah, yes.  OW lady and her former LDS friend were at it again.  Annoying. 

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Someone is a master of controlling the message:

 

"OW has demonstrated that it is very reasonable by abandoning the tactic of direct confrontation.  It has now chosen dialogue and an educational grassroots effort to influence the church's stand on women and the priesthood.  

 

They have adopted the 'Six Discussion' which is a model used by the church itself in its missionary program to demonstrate that it is still very much a part of the church."

 

It is very well crafted -- just too clever in its wording.

 

This messaging, and the production of the Six Discussions itself, leads me to conclude there are professionals (agitators)behind this group, and not just a grassroots amateur thing.  

Or, maybe I am just paranoid.

Well, you do realize that the leadership of the group are lawyers.  So they would be trained in the art of how to write something without coming right out and saying it. I wouldn't doubt if there were a few PR professionals in their ranks, as well. 

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If OW were genuinely concerned about affecting equality they would also be advocating for the priesthood to be given to children under the age of twelve, non-members, family pets, etc.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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I already have a lady in my ward who drops comments during Gospel Doctrine and Relief Society and takes the lessons off track. No one seems to appreciate it and it's pretty obvious what she's doing.  I'm trying to remember what scripture she was asking a question about in Relief Society.  She asked if that meant men can be closer to God than women can.  Of course not! 

 

"That's an interesting question and perhaps we can discuss it after class.  Now, let's get back to ...."

 

Don't let her get the class off track, but treat her with dignity.

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If OW were genuinely concerned about affecting equality they would also be advocating for the priesthood to be given to children under the age of twelve, non-members, family pets, etc.

 

Furthermore, were equality of such paramount importance to them, it would be reflected in the hierarchical make-up of their organization. There is more than a little irony in a matriarchal organization waging its collective finger of inequality at a patriarchal organization.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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Furthermore, were equality of such paramount importance to them, it would be reflected in the hierarchical make-up of their organization. There is more than a little irony in a matriarchal organization waging its collective finger of inequality at a patriarchal organization.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Do they have rules which would prohibit a man from obtaining any position in the group?

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If OW were genuinely concerned about affecting equality they would also be advocating for the priesthood to be given to children under the age of twelve, non-members, family pets, etc.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Yeah!

Like how black Americans advocated for their equality rights

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Do they have rules which would prohibit a man from obtaining any position in the group?

 

Yes...its called the glass ceiling.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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Yeah!

Like how black Americans advocated for their equality rights

 

If you say so.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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If OW were genuinely concerned about affecting equality they would also be advocating for the priesthood to be given to children under the age of twelve, non-members, family pets, etc.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

So according to you we can be sure that Blacks and their allies in the 1950's weren't serious about affecting equality in their protests against segregation. Because if they were really serious about affecting equality they would also have had to be advocating for minors ability to go into bars (can't segregate there), non-citizens right to vote, and for their family pets to use the "white" drinking fountain, etc.

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Or perhaps location? Given that women perform priesthood ordinances inside the temple, seems like a minor thing for them to do so outside the temple right?

 

Two different venues.  One does not correlate to the other. 

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Yes...its called the glass ceiling.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

I wonder where we might find another example of an apparent glass ceiling, which, upon more thoughtful examination illuminates that it really isn't so?

Edited by Senator

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If you say so.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

I not only say so, I Alma32 know so!

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I would call it possible seed planting. Like Johnny Appleseed, they will go around and spread the seeds of their agenda and hope that many seeds will begin to sprout their agenda.

I'd say it is likely some non-Mormon, radical feminist group. Those who are Mormons know that women hold the church together. I've been on the road for 12 days going from here to Rexburg and back again and attending church at White Salmon, Washington, and Arco, Idaho. I did not see anything alarming along the way. Though I felt like Idaho Mormons might be a bit smug. :)

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Do they have rules which would prohibit a man from obtaining any position in the group?

Only if he dresses appropriately. :)

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Familiarity with the Long Tail principal may be warranted here.

 

While not every sister may be agitating for priesthood ordination, that is also not to say the Church has a ways to go with gender issues. Indeed, the vision and instructions the Brethren gave in the 2010 worldwide leadership training still has, in many cases, not quite realized itself in the local units.

 

PS: For the record, I am no ally of the Ordain Women movement.

Not to derail this discussion, but your mention of gender issues reminds me that Sen Hatch said that SSM will become the law of the land. Another rather highly placed mormon told me that it is likely that the church will make certain concessions on social issues to keep out of litigation.

 

And, if you talk to elderly Mormon women, there has already been significant social change in the church since the 40's. I do not know if this will lead to happiness or damnation, however.  ELCA Lutherans, Episcopalians, Menonites have made significant changes over the years. Hubris will not hold change in the Mormon Church off forever.

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Deleted.  Wrong thread.  :)

Edited by MorningStar

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Not to derail this discussion, but your mention of gender issues reminds me that Sen Hatch said that SSM will become the law of the land. Another rather highly placed mormon told me that it is likely that the church will make certain concessions on social issues to keep out of litigation.

 

And, if you talk to elderly Mormon women, there has already been significant social change in the church since the 40's. I do not know if this will lead to happiness or damnation, however.  ELCA Lutherans, Episcopalians, Menonites have made significant changes over the years. Hubris will not hold change in the Mormon Church off forever.

 

Ellen,

 

Before I jump to conclusions, would you please explain a little more about what you mean to say in that last line about the Church and hubris?

Edited by teddyaware

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Ellen,

 

Before I jump to conclusions, would you please explain a little more about what you mean to say in that last line about the Church and hubris?

I have run into a very few Mormon men who rule by intimidation. I have talked to some who were decades behind prevailing, proven, scientific fact and still hold to their opinions on certain issues.

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