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canard78

Is This An Original Book Of Mormon Map By Joseph Smith?

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I just came across this online. Is it genuine? I've never heard of it before.

 

https://rsc.byu.edu/sites/default/files/image/4%20Nephi/1_1%204ne.jpg

 

1_1%204ne.jpgThe article states:

 

Several years ago, I came across two copies of a map in the Archives Division of the Historical Department of the Church relative to Moroni’s North American journeys (see Figures 1 and 2). On the back of the map in Figure 1 is written the following:

 

A chart, and description of Moroni’s travels through this country. Got it from Br. Robert ****son. He got it from Patriarch Wm. McBride at Richfield in the Sevier and also from Andrew M. Hamilton of same place. And they got it from Joseph Smith the Prophet. 

 

On the map “land Bountifull [sic]” is listed in “Sentral [sic] America.” The cartographer wrote “starting point” below the reference to Central America. Above the “land Bountifull” is “Sand hills in south part of Arizona,” and above it to the left is “Salt Lake.” To the right is “Independens, Jackson Co, Mo.” and above that is “Adam on Diamon, Davis Co, Mo.” To the right of that is “Nauvoo, Hancock C.Ill.” Below that is “Mound Kinderhook, Pick, Co, Ill, 6 Plates Bell shape were found” (were was was on one copy). Then to the right and above that is “Kirtland, Ohio,” and to the right of that is “Commorre [Cumorah], N.Y.” Below this on the right-hand side of the map is written: “Moroni’s Travels starting from Sentral America to the Sand hills Arizona then to Salt Lake U[tah], T[erritory], then to Adam on Diammon Mo, then to Nauvoo, Ill, then to Independence Mo, then to Kirtland Ohio then to Cumoro NY.”

 

 

 

H. Donl Peterson, “Moroni, the Last of the Nephite Prophets,” in Fourth Nephi, From Zion to Destruction, ed. Monte S. Nyman and Charles D. Tate Jr. (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1995), 235–49.

 

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/book-mormon-fourth-nephi-through-moroni-zion-destruction/18-moroni-last-nephite-prophets

 

Edited by canard78

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Some of the text says:

 

(consider sic where relevant!)

 

Moronis Travils starting from Sentral America to the Sand hills Arizono then to Salt Lake V, J, then to Adam on Diammon Mo, then to Nauvoo, Ill, then to Independence Mo, then to Kirtland Ohio then to Cumoro N.Y.

 

I'd question whether it could be Joseph Smith... given it mentions "Salt Lake" ??

 

It's quite the tour of the key Mormon locations. Impressive if he effectively did in the journey of the saints in reverse. That alone makes me a little skeptical.

 

Also says:

 

Kinderhook Pike Co. Ill, 6 Plates Bell shape were found

 

Edited by canard78

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At the risk of having a conversation with myself...

That map and its notes fits in with the Moroni-in-Manti story, but goes much, much farther than Snow’s claim, seeming to indicate that not only did Moroni visit the future site of Manti, but also of Salt Lake City, various places in Missouri, Nauvoo, and Kirtland – presumably dedicating all of them as sites of future temples – before depositing the Book of Mormon plates in the hill at Palmyra, New York.

 

No one knows any longer where this map came from or who drew it – it is unsigned, and the loose pages in the archives offer no obvious connections to any known individual. A note on the back of one copy – not written in the same pen and not even by the same hand as the map – claims this purported provenance for the information: “A Chart and description of Moroni’s travels through this country. Got from Br Robert ****son. He got it from Patria[r]ch Wm McBride at Richfield on the Seveir and also from Andrew M. Hamilton of same place. And they got it from Joseph Smith the Prophet.”

 

I am unaware that Joseph Smith the Prophet shared this information with anyone else – can any reader point to any contemporary-to-Joseph indication that Moroni visited these significant Mormon sites and dedicated temple locations? Why would Joseph have noted the location of discovery of the Kinderhook Plates, when Joseph didn’t attempt to translate those plates, apparently recognizing them for the forgery they were soon known to be? Moroni’s route is not drawn on a map that shows physical features or political boundaries – how did Joseph Smith communicate Moroni’s route to McBride and Hamilton without reference to such physical features? Are we really meant to believe that Joseph Smith used the names “Utah” and “Arisona” in the early 1840s?

 

And apart from this map, the entire story of Moroni dedicating sites for future temples – whether solely the one in Manti, or those in other Mormon centers as well – begs the question “Why?” What would be the point of Moroni’s many-thousand-mile journeys, presumably packing the plates along with him, to dedicate such places? Why dedicate Manti, while bypassing St. George – to say nothing of so many later temples across the continent?

 

http://www.keepapitchinin.org/2010/11/18/moronis-purported-rambles/

 

This is the second map by (apparently) the same hand:

 

1_2%204ne.jpg

https://rsc.byu.edu/sites/default/files/image/4%20Nephi/1_2%204ne.jpg

 

Given 'Utah' would presumably be anachronistic, I would assume it's safe to safe this is not one of Joseph's productions?

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To those interested,

 

The map is archived at the Church History Library. I have b9oth seen and examined the original. It is a page torn from a bound notebook.  On the back is a note about work at the temple that says

 

"See temple record for 92

sealing record page 106"

 

Having been torn from a bound book, this dates the drawing. A copy on legal notepad paper has further information on the back documenting its provenance.

 

Further information is found in in the journal cited above.

 

Larry P

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To those interested,

 

The map is archived at the Church History Library. I have b9oth seen and examined the original. It is a page torn from a bound notebook.  On the back is a note about work at the temple that says

 

"See temple record for 92

sealing record page 106"

 

Having been torn from a bound book, this dates the drawing. A copy on legal notepad paper has further information on the back documenting its provenance.

 

Further information is found in in the journal cited above.

 

Larry P

 

Did you reach any conclusion as to its origin?

 

Is it safe to conclude that it's a later document and not Joseph Smith?

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It is a later document that reports an earlier incident taking place in the presence of Joseph Smith. It may also reflect popular ideas of the time - eg. the kinderhook plates - however it does reflect a minority view of BofM geography that has essentially disappeared from the majority of Church members.

As to its origin, it is just what it seems, A record of a private interaction resulting from a testimony expressed in a Temple Prayer Meeting.

 

Larry P

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-

Edited by Tiki

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I would love to see it in person would the library let us see it if we ask

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Yes. But only in the library. All I had to do was ask. They will also make digital copies for you.

 

Larry P

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I would love to see it in person would the library let us see it if we ask

Greetings Bookmark, I am MarkBook.

In Indo European "buk" means "birch" and birchbark was used as we use paper. That is where we get the word "book".

Edited by mfbukowski

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Did you reach any conclusion as to its origin?

 

Is it safe to conclude that it's a later document and not Joseph Smith?

 

I hope it's authentic, and that would make Moroni the first person to ever go on a Church history tour.

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There are actually two versions of this map. You can see high quality photos both of them on the church history library website, here.

They clearly don't come directly from Joseph Smith, but I suppose it's possible that they reflect some of his ideas.

 

Though it doesn't have any connection to Moroni, these maps remind me of the accounts that Joseph Smith had drawn maps to show members of the church where they would end up in the west of the U.S.

 

https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/BYUStudies/article/viewFile/5231/4881:

A number of individuals who knew Joseph Smith recorded that on occasions prior to 1842 he had drawn a route the saints would follow in making their westward journey to the Rocky Mountains. According to George H Goddard, Joseph Smith mapped on the floor of the masonic lodge in Nauvoo the course they would follow across the continent. 13 Oliver B Huntington recorded hearing Hopkins C Pendar, "an old Nauvoo Mormon," state that "Joseph Smith just before he was killed made a sketch of the future home of the saints in the Rocky Mountains and their route or road to that country as he had seen in a vision amap adap [sic] or drawing of it. 14 Oliver Huntington stated further that Levi Hancock drew a copy of the map and four other copies were made from it. One was supposedly given to Brigham Young and one was carried by the Mormon Battalion by which they knew where to find the church or Salt Lake Valley. 15 Mosiah Hancock son of Levi, recorded further that Joseph Smith visited his father's house some time before the martyrdom and "stopped in our carpenter shop and stood by the turning lathe. I went and got my map for him. 'Now,' he said, 'I will show you the travels of this people.' He then showed our travels through Iowa and said,'here you will make a place for the winter and here you will travel west until you come to the valley of the Great Salt Lake. You will build cities to the north and to the south and to the east and to the west and you will become a great and wealthy people in that land." 16 Another early church member recorded hearing a Father McBride speak of Joseph Smith marking out the way the saints would travel to the Rocky Mountains. Joseph reportedly marked "the route with his cane in the sand. [sic] they would take." 17 
Edited by mapman

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