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Sunday School And A Worldwide Flood (Pt.3)


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Rob, I see where it states this happiness with Enoch (Moses 17:2). Is that what you're referring to? These were people who accepted the gospel. No mention of all the infants, young children or pregnant women (who didnt accept the gospel).

CFR for church leader's statements that the children were taken up prior to the flood. Thanks again.

The children of the wicked were not taken up prior to the flood. Dying is not the end of the world for little children, especially when the parents who teach them, like the wicked grownups during Noah's day, are desperately wicked.

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The children of the wicked were not taken up prior to the flood. Dying is not the end of the world for little children, especially when the parents who teach them, like the wicked grownups during Noah's day, are desperately wicked.

Nice. And you'd honestly rather believe that over believing the flood wasn't global and innocents weren't killed?

I believe in a God that would not punish or kill children for their parent's sins.

Edited by MichelleD
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Nice. And you'd honestly rather believe that over believing the flood wasn't global and innocents weren't killed?

I believe in a God that would not punish or kill children for their parent's sins.

 

Then you clearly have not read the scriptures thoroughly.  God frequently has wiped out whole nations for wickedness, and children too.  Do you not remember the angel of death killing ALL the firstborn of Egypt at God's command?

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Then you clearly have not read the scriptures thoroughly.  God frequently has wiped out whole nations for wickedness, and children too.  Do you not remember the angel of death killing ALL the firstborn of Egypt at God's command?

Oh, I've very clearly read scripture. We're talking about God drowning innocent children here when it wasn't necessary to do so. Nope, I won't believe that. Combined with all of the overwhelming evidence now and common sense reasoning, I do not believe in a global flood.

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Then you clearly have not read the scriptures thoroughly.  God frequently has wiped out whole nations for wickedness, and children too.  Do you not remember the angel of death killing ALL the firstborn of Egypt at God's command?

Has God done any wiping out of the wicked, cities and all, in recent times? Wouldn't Las Vegas be right up there on the list?

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Has God done any wiping out of the wicked, cities and all, in recent times? Wouldn't Las Vegas be right up there on the list?

 

I think that that is being saved for the second coming when "the wicked shall burn as stubble"...or as chaff, or whichever scriptural analogy you like.  I mean, do we believe what God says or not?  Do we have a testimony that the scriptures are the word of God?  And does God lie?

 

There are the prophecies of Wilford Woodruff that Boston, Albany and New York will all be destroyed.  And there have been an increase in natural disasters, or at least the recorded ones make there appear to be an increase.  We know the "last days" are not going to be gentle, and the effects of the second coming are not going to be as forgiving as God is at this time in our history.  And the destruction (including some innocents) will cause many to doubt that God loves us, or cause people to "not believe in that unkind sort of God" I am sure.  But who knows how long till those days hit.

 

The world is supposed to become more and more wicked until the Second Coming, and the righteous are supposed to be gathered out of the world, although not all righteous will escape the judgements according to scripture.  We are a millennial believing religion last I checked and we do expect the last days to wipe out a lot of people.  A little battle called Armageddon is still to come I believe.

 

And yes, I don't like the odds of Vegas surviving given that it is sin city... ;)

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Not sure that happened either.

 

Exactly.

 

Wow.  Such disbelief in Scripture.  Such "I don't believe that God would do that so the scriptures are wrong" is very disconcerting.  And in my honest opinion, believing the words of man (scientists/historians) over the word of God (prophets/scriptures) is both dangerous and false.

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I think that that is being saved for the second coming when "the wicked shall burn as stubble"...or as chaff, or whichever scriptural analogy you like. I mean, do we believe what God says or not? Do we have a testimony that the scriptures are the word of God? And does God lie?

There are the prophecies of Wilford Woodruff that Boston, Albany and New York will all be destroyed. And there have been an increase in natural disasters, or at least the recorded ones make there appear to be an increase. We know the "last days" are not going to be gentle, and the effects of the second coming are not going to be as forgiving as God is at this time in our history. And the destruction (including some innocents) will cause many to doubt that God loves us, or cause people to "not believe in that unkind sort of God" I am sure. But who knows how long till those days hit.

Or if Woodruff was correct.

There seems to be limited external evidence of an increase in global wickedness. We seem to just be assuming that because we are assuming it's the last days and seem to think that should be occurring.

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Oh, I've very clearly read scripture. We're talking about God drowning innocent children here when it wasn't necessary to do so. Nope, I won't believe that. Combined with all of the overwhelming evidence now and common sense reasoning, I do not believe in a global flood.

+1000

 

Even the church doesn't really push the global flood theory anymore.  This is stated over on the FAIR website:

 

"The Church does not take an official position on this issue.

This is one of many issues about which the Church has no official position."

 
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There seems to be limited external evidence of an increase in global wickedness. We seem to just be assuming that because we are assuming it's the last days and seem to think that should be occurring.

 

No.  It's not an assumption.  We weak mortals just like to redefine what qualifies as wicked.  God's standard of wickedness hasn't changed (and doesn't).  And we are continually moving in that direction.  Society IS more corrupt than it has ever been using God's standard.  Unless you apply a different standard there's no way around that.

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Wow. Such disbelief in Scripture. Such "I don't believe that God would do that so the scriptures are wrong" is very disconcerting. And in my honest opinion, believing the words of man (scientists/historians) over the word of God (prophets/scriptures) is both dangerous and false.

Good for you - taking a scriptural document that is religious in nature, and not historical, and forcing a inerrant historical requirement on it is fool hardy.

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No. It's not an assumption. We weak mortals just like to redefine what qualifies as wicked. God's standard of wickedness hasn't changed (and doesn't). And we are continually moving in that direction. Society IS more corrupt than it has ever been using God's standard. Unless you apply a different standard there's no way around that.

Please provide a few benchmarks of gods standard of wickedness... Once you've got them down we can see if we are indeed getting worse.

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Wow.  Such disbelief in Scripture.  Such "I don't believe that God would do that so the scriptures are wrong" is very disconcerting.  And in my honest opinion, believing the words of man (scientists/historians) over the word of God (prophets/scriptures) is both dangerous and false.

Oh, I very much believe in scriptures and cherish them. That does not mean that I have to literally believe all the stories told in them. What about the parables? Do you think they are literally true? Why do all the stories told by Prophets and others in the scriptures have to be the literal truth? The symbolism in the biblical stories can be beautiful and effective without them having to have actually historically happened.

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Please provide a few benchmarks of gods standard of wickedness... Once you've got them down we can see if we are indeed getting worse.

 

Really?  I really need to show where sin is more common now than it was, say 200 years ago?

Acceptable abortion, acceptable homosexuality, institutionalized greed, humanism/atheism, breakdown of families, crime of the most disgusting nature, and we accept more of it than ever before.  Our very culture has moved away from what God has asked of us and continues to provide distraction, cynicism and sinful acts on a regular basis.

These things are not new nor am I claiming they haven't always existed.  They have always existed.  People have always been weak.  But never have they been so acceptable in the world as they are in our 7 billion people planet and our western civilization.  Never have we been told day in and day out that bad is good.  And never have we been convinced to accept so much that God has denounced or to denounce so much that God has said.

Edited by JLHPROF
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Nice. And you'd honestly rather believe that over believing the flood wasn't global and innocents weren't killed?

I believe in a God that would not punish or kill children for their parent's sins.

I posted the following before but have not received a response. Please do read and respond...

"What about all the innocent children who died in the cities that were destroyed in ancient America, just before the resurrected Lord appeared to the surviving Nephites who weren't destroyed in the cataclysmic convulsions of nature recorded in 3 Nephi?"

Edited by teddyaware
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The Chinese character for boat is a water vessel with 8 mouths in it... Coincidence?

No it isn't. This is the character: 船只

There's possibly a "kou" in there (口) which means mouth. Where are there 8 of them?

The lived through the flood - that is indisputable.

China lived through a flood. If Noah and family were the sole survivors how could the Chinese live through THE flood?

Edited by canard78
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Sssshhhh, don't confuse him with actual evidence.

I think everyone likes to think things were better "in my days."

200 years ago in USA there was frontier killings and lynchings.

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No, I've never heard that before. CFR please (statements by current church leaders if you have any). Thanks!

27 And Enoch beheld angels descending out of heaven, bearing testimony of the Father and Son; and the Holy Ghost fell on many, and they were caught up by the powers of heaven into Zion.

38 But behold, these which thine eyes are upon shall perish in the floods; and behold, I will shut them up; a prison have I prepared for them.

(Moses 7:27,38)

After the city of Enoch was taken up to heaven the gospel was preached by Noah and all the holy angels and the Holy Ghost and those who accepted the gospel were caught up to the city of Enoch while the residue of the wicked were left to be destroyed.

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Oh, I've very clearly read scripture. We're talking about God drowning innocent children here when it wasn't necessary to do so. Nope, I won't believe that. Combined with all of the overwhelming evidence now and common sense reasoning, I do not believe in a global flood.

What about the recent Tsunami in Indonesia that wiped out 250,000+ people including infants and children?

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