3 Levels Of The Celestial Kingdom

[theplains]

What I like about some of the teachings of BY is that they are not doctrinal, not being published by the Church, so I don't have to worry about going against those particular teachings.  But that middle degree is interesting as it doesn't seem to be defined.

 

When Brigham Young taught what he taught, was he teaching the audience as if it were true

or false? On a side note, if Mormons go against the teachings of their own prophet (s), are

they on the road to personal apostasy and/or excommunication?

 

Thanks,

Jim

[Maidservant]

I understand the three degrees of glory to be an image, symbol, device or template to allow us to BEGIN pondering about the eternal condition.

 

This earth that we now live upon will become a world that we would term the celestial kingdom.  Everyone who lives in this world will be of one heart and one mind.  Creating this world will happen in real time--we will learn how to do it and how to be those kind of people.  As Alma says in the Book of Mormon, you cannot be restored to something you never had.  God cannot just wave a wand and cause people to be celestial and plop them down into a celestial kingdom as a reward for being good little girls and boys.  As the parable of the ten virgins teaches us, the fire has to in us.  It cannot be borrowed.

 

If you are celestial--because of your choices and because of your redemption by the Savior--then every where you go will be the celestial kingdom because you will carry it with you.  And you don't have to die to do that.  You can do your best today and keep learning throughout life and continue learning after this particular life--until come to that fulness.

 

You cannot be celestial simply by getting married.  Oi.  If it were that simple.  Rather, marriage is the practicum for being celestial--the workshop, the way to create your own kingdom of love.  Someone who doesn't know what this is--doesn't know what this is.  Again--you cannot borrow the experience of marriage.  You have to actually pass through it yourself.  And it can result in you being celestial and in enjoying a celestial society with one other human being of the complementary gender.

[thesometimesaint]

I don't believe polygamy is the norm even in the Celestial Kingdom.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I understand the three degrees of glory to be an image, symbol, device or template to allow us to BEGIN pondering about the eternal condition.

 

This earth that we now live upon will become a world that we would term the celestial kingdom.  Everyone who lives in this world will be of one heart and one mind.  Creating this world will happen in real time--we will learn how to do it and how to be those kind of people.  As Alma says in the Book of Mormon, you cannot be restored to something you never had.  God cannot just wave a wand and cause people to be celestial and plop them down into a celestial kingdom as a reward for being good little girls and boys.  As the parable of the ten virgins teaches us, the fire has to in us.  It cannot be borrowed.

 

If you are celestial--because of your choices and because of your redemption by the Savior--then every where you go will be the celestial kingdom because you will carry it with you.  And you don't have to die to do that.  You can do your best today and keep learning throughout life and continue learning after this particular life--until come to that fulness.

 

You cannot be celestial simply by getting married.  Oi.  If it were that simple.  Rather, marriage is the practicum for being celestial--the workshop, the way to create your own kingdom of love.  Someone who doesn't know what this is--doesn't know what this is.  Again--you cannot borrow the experience of marriage.  You have to actually pass through it yourself.  And it can result in you being celestial and in enjoying a celestial society with one other human being of the complementary gender.

Very well said! Thank you.

[JLHPROF]

I don't believe polygamy is the norm even in the Celestial Kingdom.

 

Well, do you believe that Heavenly Father or the Saviour are polygamists?  Because I agree that not everyone in the Celestial Kingdom are polygamists, but I also think that pretty much everyone in history that we can safely assume received their exaltation to the top level/Godhood were polygamists.

Nobody, even Brigham, ever claimed the CK was exclusively for polygamists, but they did claim that only polygamists get to rule and reign as Gods.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Well, do you believe that Heavenly Father or the Saviour are polygamists?  Because I agree that not everyone in the Celestial Kingdom are polygamists, but I also think that pretty much everyone in history that we can safely assume received their exaltation to the top level/Godhood were polygamists.

Nobody, even Brigham, ever claimed the CK was exclusively for polygamists, but they did claim that only polygamists get to rule and reign as Gods.

I bet BY would say differently today. I bet all worthy married husband and wife will be exalted. I bet many many will be.

[thesometimesaint]

Well, do you believe that Heavenly Father or the Saviour are polygamists?  Because I agree that not everyone in the Celestial Kingdom are polygamists, but I also think that pretty much everyone in history that we can safely assume received their exaltation to the top level/Godhood were polygamists.

Nobody, even Brigham, ever claimed the CK was exclusively for polygamists, but they did claim that only polygamists get to rule and reign as Gods.

 

I allow that they MAY be polygamists. But simple reproduction mathamatics says that polygamy can't be a requirement.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I just wish I knew what kinds of people would go to the 2 lower degrees. Someone ask a GA.

[Tacenda]

Does anyone know where JS got the word telestial? It's nowhere in the bible. And terrestrial means earth right? Has anyone done an analysis or checked the context of the bible verses with terrestial and celestial in to see if JS used these in the context of the bible. I know at one time telestial wasn't in the dictionary.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I know so many married couples that seem very worthy of the top level of the Celestial Kingdom. I just hope I can live up to their standards.

[Kevin Barney]

You might find these blog posts of mine of interest:

 

http://bycommonconsent.com/2006/03/18/is-the-celestial-kingdom-divided-into-three-subdegrees/

 

http://bycommonconsent.com/2010/01/27/the-etymology-of-telestial/

[VideoGameJunkie]

I hope I advance further than a ministering angel. I don't want to be a server for eternity to other members. That seems more like a punishment.

[JLHPROF]

Does anyone know where JS got the word telestial? It's nowhere in the bible. And terrestrial means earth right? Has anyone done an analysis or checked the context of the bible verses with terrestial and celestial in to see if JS used these in the context of the bible. I know at one time telestial wasn't in the dictionary.

 

It's a bit of a stretch, and I do believe it to be a new word from revelation, but in my opinion teles which means siren in latin (as celes and terra mean sun and earth) is probably an incorrect anagramatic play on stella (etoile, estrella, stellar) meaning stars.

[JLHPROF]

I hope I advance further than a ministering angel. I don't want to be a server for eternity to other members. That seems more like a punishment.

 

I don't believe the McConkie teaching that whichever place we are assigned to in the next life that is where we stay worlds without end, with limited progression, and no chance to move outside of that finite Kingdom.

 

I believe eternity is a state of eternal progression with specific bounds to work within for a time.  While we are told that those who go to the Telestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms can never reenter God's presence, and we are told that the bottom degree of the Celestial Kingdom will remain single, I believe these designations apply to a specific probation or time frame.  Eventually there has to be somewhere and somehow for those who are place at those levels to progress beyond them.

So I believe even those ministering angels will eventually progress beyond that state, somehow or somewhere in the eternities.

[Schenault]

Okay, a couple of questions. I had been told that with in the three glories of heaven, there are three levels within the three levels. Is this true? Also, by reading the posts here, it sounds as though ONLY the members of the LDS church will be allowed in heaven???

[VideoGameJunkie]

Okay, a couple of questions. I had been told that with in the three glories of heaven, there are three levels within the three levels. Is this true? Also, by reading the posts here, it sounds as though ONLY the members of the LDS church will be allowed in heaven???

Only LDS will get into the highest heaven, which in itself is divided into 3 degrees, but everyone will have a chance either in this life or the next to accept the gospel.

[Calm]

Only LDS will get into the highest heaven, which in itself is divided into 3 degrees, but everyone will have a chance either in this life or the next to accept the gospel.

I prefer to word it as we all, even LDS, will have the chance to become part of the Lord's Church of the Firstborn (or Church of the Lamb or other ways it is referred to in the scriptures).  I don't believe that all LDS are currently members of His eternal Church as we don't all abide by our covenants.  Not only that but JS taught that we have a lot to learn about our endowments and the principles of exaltation after death (see my signature) and this, imo, may even mean additional ordinances to go through so I think it just may be impossible for us to claim ourselves as anything but potential members/initiates of God's eternal Church at this point, much like children who have not yet been baptized but attend the LDS faith and participate as much as they can or investigators awaiting their chance at baptism and confirmation.

 

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/church-of-the-firstborn

Edited November 3, 2013 by calmoriah

[VideoGameJunkie]

I prefer to word it as we all, even LDS, will have the chance to become part of the Lord's Church of the Firstborn (or Church of the Lamb or other ways it is referred to in the scriptures).  I don't believe that all LDS are currently members of His eternal Church as we don't all abide by our covenants.  Not only that but JS taught that we have a lot to learn about our endowments and the principles of exaltation after death (see my signature) and this, imo, may even mean additional ordinances to go through so I think it just may be impossible for us to claim ourselves as anything but potential members/initiates of God's eternal Church at this point, much like children who have not yet been baptized but attend the LDS faith and participate as much as they can or investigators awaiting their chance at baptism and confirmation.

 

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/church-of-the-firstborn

 

OK, your wording is better.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I want to go to the top level, but just getting in the CK would be a tremendous joy.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I sure hope I'm nobody's servant though for eternity.

[Maidservant]

I sure hope I'm nobody's servant though for eternity.

 

I hope I become a servant to everyone 100 percent of the time, now and later.

 

You mean you don't want to be a slave?

 

That doesn't happen in the full potential of human community.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I hope I become a servant to everyone 100 percent of the time, now and later.

 

You mean you don't want to be a slave?

 

That doesn't happen in the full potential of human community.

Well I'm not sure exactly what ministering angels do.

[mfbukowski]

Okay, a couple of questions. I had been told that with in the three glories of heaven, there are three levels within the three levels. Is this true? Also, by reading the posts here, it sounds as though ONLY the members of the LDS church will be allowed in heaven???

Here's the problem: typical Christians speak of "heaven" which for us is an ambiguous term. 

 

We could very well say that nearly everyone goes to heaven if by "heaven" we are talking about the traditional Christian view which defines that term

 

For us. "heaven" could be what we call "Paradise" which is where we go immediately after death.  One goes either to Spirit Prison, which is not a burning hell like some envision, but more like a waiting area where one has the opportunity to progress.  It is not a happy place, but it is not a place of real punishment either.  We believe that others who are not LDS will have the opportunity to hear the gospel there- there will be missionaries not unlike we have here.  Earth life is not exactly joy and happiness every minute either, is it?

 

But the righteous- LDS and not LDS will go to a place called "Paradise" which is a place of joy and peace and light.

 

After the final judgement, all will be resurrected, and at that time we will go to one of the three kingdoms- telestial, terrestrial and celestial.

 

There are very few- like probably only a few hundred who will go to "outer darkness" which is not where anyone would want to be- but to qualify for that one has to deny the existence of God knowing full well that he exists.  That is an over simplification, but that will do for now.  So not many will end up there.

 

It is said that even the lowest kingdom will be so joyful that if we could see it now, we might actually kill ourselves just to go there.  And that is the lowest kingdom!

 

So yes, the belief is that one must accept the gospel either here or in the afterlife in order to obtain celestial glory- but that does not mean that "Only LDS go to heaven"

 

Virtually everyone, LDS or not, Christian or not, righteous or not, will be in place of joy which to us will be infinitely better than life here.  

 

So in a sense, nearly everyone goes to "heaven" depending on how you define it.

 

For the traditional Christian, heaven is a place of joy where you sing praises to God forever.

 

I think we believe that is fine, but it is inadequate to describe the complexity of all the options available to us.  We are all saved by faith but REWARDED according to our works.  Surely someone very faithful for their entire lives who did much to help others and helped them find Christ should have a better reward than a rapist who made a death-bed true conversion to Christianity.

 

There MUST be divisions in heaven, just logically I would think.

 

Traditional Christians sometimes call these greater rewards "crowns" or "jewels in the crown"- but even those terms betray the fact that even for TC's there are divisions in what rewards are given.

Edited November 5, 2013 by mfbukowski

[VideoGameJunkie]

Here's the problem: typical Christians speak of "heaven" which for us is an ambiguous term. 

 

We could very well say that nearly everyone goes to heaven if by "heaven" we are talking about the traditional Christian view which defines that term

 

For us. "heaven" could be what we call "Paradise" which is where we go immediately after death.  One goes either to Spirit Prison, which is not a burning hell like some envision, but more like a waiting area where one has the opportunity to progress.  It is not a happy place, but it is not a place of real punishment either.  We believe that others who are not LDS will have the opportunity to hear the gospel there- there will be missionaries not unlike we have here.  Earth life is not exactly joy and happiness every minute either, is it?

 

But the righteous- LDS and not LDS will go to a place called "Paradise" which is a place of joy and peace and light.

 

After the final judgement, all will be resurrected, and at that time we will go to one of the three kingdoms- telestial, terrestrial and celestial.

 

There are very few- like probably only a few hundred who will go to "outer darkness" which is not where anyone would want to be- but to qualify for that one has to deny the existence of God knowing full well that he exists.  That is an over simplification, but that will do for now.  So not many will end up there.

 

It is said that even the lowest kingdom will be so joyful that if we could see it now, we might actually kill ourselves just to go there.  And that is the lowest kingdom!

 

So yes, the belief is that one must accept the gospel either here or in the afterlife in order to obtain celestial glory- but that does not mean that "Only LDS go to heaven"

 

Virtually everyone, LDS or not, Christian or not, righteous or not, will be in place of joy which to us will be infinitely better than life here.  

 

So in a sense, nearly everyone goes to "heaven" depending on how you define it.

 

For the traditional Christian, heaven is a place of joy where you sing praises to God forever.

 

I think we believe that is fine, but it is inadequate to describe the complexity of all the options available to us.  We are all saved by faith but REWARDED according to our works.  Surely someone very faithful for their entire lives who did much to help others and helped them find Christ should have a better reward than a rapist who made a death-bed true conversion to Christianity.

 

There MUST be divisions in heaven, just logically I would think.

 

Traditional Christians sometimes call these greater rewards "crowns" or "jewels in the crown"- but even those terms betray the fact that even for TC's there are divisions in what rewards are given.

Very well said, and I believe somewhat in the death bed confessions if it's sincere, because remember the parable of everyone being paid the same.

[Calm]

Well I'm not sure exactly what ministering angels do.

I think Maidservant was speaking of how even God is a servant if one is speaking of giving service/benefits/blessings to others.