Hymn 284: If You Could Hie To Kolob

[Stone holm]

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Personally, I react with a bit of smug satisfaction that Christianity/Mormonism/Gods are totally compatible with evolution/emergence/uncreated-intelligence. Then I react with annoyance that "If You Could Hie To Kolob" and "Oh My Father" (the Nettleton version, like Come Thou Fount) aren't sung more often, because they're the most awesomest hymns evah.

[Stone holm]

Personally, I react with a bit of smug satisfaction that Christianity/Mormonism/Gods are totally compatible with evolution/emergence/uncreated-intelligence. Then I react with annoyance that "If You Could Hie To Kolob" and "Oh My Father" (the Nettleton version, like Come Thou Fount) aren't sung more often, because they're the most awesomest hymns evah.

I agree about the awesomeness of the two hymns. What is the connection to evolution. Am curious?

[Alan]

I agree about the awesomeness of the two hymns. What is the connection to evolution. Am curious?

No connection to evolution at all as far as I can see.

[volgadon]

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.

Phelps is claiming that there is no first generation in which Gods came to be.

[Alan]

Phelps is claiming that there is no first generation in which Gods came to be.

Correct. So no evolution.

[mfbukowski]

Personally, I react with a bit of smug satisfaction that Christianity/Mormonism/Gods are totally compatible with evolution/emergence/uncreated-intelligence. Then I react with annoyance that "If You Could Hie To Kolob" and "Oh My Father" (the Nettleton version, like Come Thou Fount) aren't sung more often, because they're the most awesomest hymns evah.

[media=]

As usual,

[Kenngo1969]

Here's my favorite rendition:

[mfbukowski]

Over the centuries various legends about the life of Augustine have arisen and been given much attention.

This was possibly in many previous centuries when the word “history” was more taken to mean “that which has been heard about the past” than to be “that which factually happened in the past.”

It so happens that the English word history comes from the same source as the Italian word storia – close to the English word, story.

These legends relate to numerous parts of Augustine’s life. One of them concerns a supposed meeting by chance of Augustine and a child at the sea shore. This legend was well-known in the Middle Ages, but has no grounding in anything that Augustine himself wrote or preached.

The scene is the seashore, where there is a small pool, a little boy with a seashell, and a sandy beach on which St. Augustine , clad in his episcopal robes, is walking, pondering with difficulty the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity. “Father, Son, Holy Spirit; three in one!” he muttered, shaking his head.

As he approached the little boy who was running back and forth between the sea and the pool with a seashell of water, Augustine craned his neck and asked him: “Son, what are you doing?”

“Can’t you see?” said the boy. “I’m emptying the sea into this pool!”

“Son, you can’t do that!” Augustine countered. “I will sooner empty the sea into this pool than you will manage to get the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity into your head!”

Upon saying that, the boy, who was an angel according to legend, quickly disappeared, leaving Augustine alone with the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity.

http://www.augnet.org/?ipageid=1390

[CV75]

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.

"Things that make you go, "Hmmm..." In a good way.

Then, "i beleive I can fly..."

Edited June 14, 2013 by CV75

[Yep]

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.

My all time favorite hymn. I love the song. My favorite version is the one from the movie "R.M." by Kirby Heyborne and Marc Thorup... not a version that could be sung in a Sacrament Meeting, but I prefer the sound of it, it would be awesome if there were a piano or organ version that followed this and it was sung in a sacrament meeting.

[Questing Beast]

There was a first generation of "gods" in this world/universe. But there is only one "God" and never created, with no beginning and no end....

[Daimao]

"Things that make you go, "Hmmm..." In a good way.

Maybe it's just the topic, but I read that as "Things that make you go "Hymn..."

[Ahab]

For those who don't have their hymn books handy:

1. If you could hie to Kolob

In the twinkling of an eye,

And then continue onward

With that same speed to fly,

Do you think that you could ever,

Through all eternity,

Find out the generation

Where Gods began to be?

It's an awesome thought. I imagine how fast I would have to be travelling to get to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye, and then at the same rate of speed continuing onward further and further and deeper and deeper into the universe, seeing galaxies and nebulas whizzing by the further and deeper I went. I'd also think that maybe, just maybe, the further I went the more I would be going back to older generations, you know, since I'd be starting from here and thinking that our Father is maybe closer to us than his Father before him and his Father before him, etc. So maybe it could be that the further and deeper I went into the universe the more I would see of past generations where our Father's Father and Grandfather, etc, had their own galaxies to govern. So, anyway, as I was traveling at that high rate of speed I'd be wondering if there was ever going to be a place where the galaxies ended and there was nothing but empty space, thinking maybe the first generation of our kind of being would maybe be out that far into the universe. But as far as my answer to the question goes, No, I don't think I'd ever get to the point where the first generation of our kind of being came to be, because I don't believe there is a first generation. But who knows, maybe if I traveled far and deep enough I could be proven to be wrong.

Anyways, here is the rest of the song:

2. Or see the grand beginning,

Where space did not extend?

Or view the last creation,

Where Gods and matter end?

Methinks the Spirit whispers,

“No man has found ‘pure space,’

Nor seen the outside curtains,

Where nothing has a place.”

3. The works of God continue,

And worlds and lives abound;

Improvement and progression

Have one eternal round.

There is no end to matter;

There is no end to space;

There is no end to spirit;

There is no end to race.

4. There is no end to virtue;

There is no end to might;

There is no end to wisdom;

There is no end to light.

There is no end to union;

There is no end to youth;

There is no end to priesthood;

There is no end to truth.

5. There is no end to glory;

There is no end to love;

There is no end to being;

There is no death above.

There is no end to glory;

There is no end to love;

There is no end to being;

There is no death above.

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872

[rpn]

Well, the no end to race is a real problem, because race is a mortal construct completely (unless one is talking about the human race).

[Ahab]

Well, the no end to race is a real problem, because race is a mortal construct completely (unless one is talking about the human race).

Whether you think of race as referring to the whole human race or just a sub-culture of it, there is no end to any of it, and it didn't start with just us on this planet because there are and always have been other planets like ours.

[Ron Beron]

To all the above....Hmmmm, aha, and great hymn

[Bernard Gui]

1. The Ralph Vaughan-Williams music is sublime, as is most of his music. The old music, not so much.

2. I believe "race" refers to the extended family of the Gods.

3. If this is God's work, I really, really, really, really want to help, even if it is just to sweep up the debris with the Gods are finished with the job:

http://apod.nasa.gov...d/ap121029.html

Edited June 14, 2013 by Bernard Gui

[Ron Beron]

1. The Ralph Vaughan-Williams music is sublime, as is most of his music. The old music, not so much.

2. I believe "race" refers to the extended family of the Gods.

3. If this is God's work, I really, really, really, really want to help, even if it is just to sweep up the debris with the Gods are finished with the job:

http://apod.nasa.gov...d/ap121029.html

Thanks for the posting...The Williams' composition is "‘Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus"

[Ahab]

If you guys are going to be listening to music as you hie to Kolob, and beyond, you're going to be missing out on the natural sounds of all that you'll be passing. Might want to turn it down at least a little bit. I'd rather just travel in silence for at least my first few trips.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Ahab

[Ahab]

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.

One other thought:

William would have helped out a bunch if instead of saying "Gods" he said "persons who are God."

But I know, that was before being politically correct came into vogue and some people still have trouble thinking that way.

[Stone holm]

Well, the no end to race is a real problem, because race is a mortal construct completely (unless one is talking about the human race).

What he is talking about the race of gods.

Phelps is claiming that there is no first generation in which Gods came to be.

That is not the way I read the lyrics, he is claiming that there have been so many that no matter how long you look you want find that first generation.

[Ahab]

What he is talking about the race of gods.

That is not the way I read the lyrics, he is claiming that there have been so many that no matter how long you look you want find that first generation.

No, he is asking a question, and apparently your answer would be Yes, you imagine being able to find the first ones if you kept looking long enough. Give it a shot sometime, when you're in eternity. You'll have forever and if there is a first one you could eventually find him, or her, or both of them who started it all. Happy trails to you until we meet again.

[theplains]

Do you think that you could ever,

Through all eternity,

Find out the generation

Where Gods began to be?

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872

What makes a person qualified to bear the title of "God"? Is it reaching a certain level of knowledge

or more like someone 'knighting' you so to speak?

Thanks,

Jim

[Ahab]

What makes a person qualified to bear the title of "God"? Is it reaching a certain level of knowledge

or more like someone 'knighting' you so to speak?

Thanks,

Jim

Being the same kind of being he is.... which we already are, by the way.

We're just not as perfect as our Father, yet, but you can still refer to all of us by the word we use to refer to the kind of being we are.