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Hymn 284: If You Could Hie To Kolob


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#1 Stone holm

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 01:58 AM

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.
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Asking the right questions is more important than having the right answers. :lazy:

#2 JeremyOrbe-Smith

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:22 AM

Personally, I react with a bit of smug satisfaction that Christianity/Mormonism/Gods are totally compatible with evolution/emergence/uncreated-intelligence. Then I react with annoyance that "If You Could Hie To Kolob" and "Oh My Father" (the Nettleton version, like Come Thou Fount) aren't sung more often, because they're the most awesomest hymns evah.


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#3 Stone holm

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 03:54 AM

Personally, I react with a bit of smug satisfaction that Christianity/Mormonism/Gods are totally compatible with evolution/emergence/uncreated-intelligence. Then I react with annoyance that "If You Could Hie To Kolob" and "Oh My Father" (the Nettleton version, like Come Thou Fount) aren't sung more often, because they're the most awesomest hymns evah.


I agree about the awesomeness of the two hymns. What is the connection to evolution. Am curious?
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Asking the right questions is more important than having the right answers. :lazy:

#4 Alan

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:41 AM

I agree about the awesomeness of the two hymns. What is the connection to evolution. Am curious?


No connection to evolution at all as far as I can see.
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#5 volgadon

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:49 AM

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.


Phelps is claiming that there is no first generation in which Gods came to be.
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#6 Alan

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:50 AM

Phelps is claiming that there is no first generation in which Gods came to be.


Correct. So no evolution.
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#7 mfbukowski

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:57 AM

Personally, I react with a bit of smug satisfaction that Christianity/Mormonism/Gods are totally compatible with evolution/emergence/uncreated-intelligence. Then I react with annoyance that "If You Could Hie To Kolob" and "Oh My Father" (the Nettleton version, like Come Thou Fount) aren't sung more often, because they're the most awesomest hymns evah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwYm_mKQ3Gs

As usual, :good: ;)
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"I see Religion as creating a language to speak of the divine and sacred. Since I see creating this language as a creative act, ... creating a certain view of heaven and earth, a living 'image' of God and Man and their story, past, present and future." - Calmoriah

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#8 Kenngo1969

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:58 AM

Here's my favorite rendition:
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"Read your Scriptures, strap on a bomb: It's all the same to us!—Kenngo1969, re Tal "The Talibachman" Bachman

 

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#9 mfbukowski

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 09:05 AM

Over the centuries various legends about the life of Augustine have arisen and been given much attention.

This was possibly in many previous centuries when the word “history” was more taken to mean “that which has been heard about the past” than to be “that which factually happened in the past.”

It so happens that the English word history comes from the same source as the Italian word storia – close to the English word, story.

These legends relate to numerous parts of Augustine’s life. One of them concerns a supposed meeting by chance of Augustine and a child at the sea shore. This legend was well-known in the Middle Ages, but has no grounding in anything that Augustine himself wrote or preached.


The scene is the seashore, where there is a small pool, a little boy with a seashell, and a sandy beach on which St. Augustine , clad in his episcopal robes, is walking, pondering with difficulty the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity. “Father, Son, Holy Spirit; three in one!” he muttered, shaking his head.

As he approached the little boy who was running back and forth between the sea and the pool with a seashell of water, Augustine craned his neck and asked him: “Son, what are you doing?”
“Can’t you see?” said the boy. “I’m emptying the sea into this pool!”
“Son, you can’t do that!” Augustine countered. “I will sooner empty the sea into this pool than you will manage to get the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity into your head!”
Upon saying that, the boy, who was an angel according to legend, quickly disappeared, leaving Augustine alone with the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity.


http://www.augnet.org/?ipageid=1390
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"I see Religion as creating a language to speak of the divine and sacred. Since I see creating this language as a creative act, ... creating a certain view of heaven and earth, a living 'image' of God and Man and their story, past, present and future." - Calmoriah

My Blog: Theomorphic Man http://theomorphicman.blogspot.com/

#10 CV75

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:17 AM

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.

"Things that make you go, "Hmmm..." In a good way.

Then, "i beleive I can fly..."

Edited by CV75, 14 June 2013 - 10:20 AM.

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#11 Yep

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 10:49 AM

What is the general reaction to the lyrics of the first verse of this hymn, in particular the part about the first generation in which Gods came to be.

My all time favorite hymn. I love the song. My favorite version is the one from the movie "R.M." by Kirby Heyborne and Marc Thorup... not a version that could be sung in a Sacrament Meeting, but I prefer the sound of it, it would be awesome if there were a piano or organ version that followed this and it was sung in a sacrament meeting.
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#12 Questing Beast

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:02 AM

There was a first generation of "gods" in this world/universe. But there is only one "God" and never created, with no beginning and no end....
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#13 Daimao

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:15 AM

"Things that make you go, "Hmmm..." In a good way.

Maybe it's just the topic, but I read that as "Things that make you go "Hymn..."
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#14 Ahab

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:23 AM

For those who don't have their hymn books handy:

1. If you could hie to Kolob
In the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward
With that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever,
Through all eternity,
Find out the generation
Where Gods began to be?


It's an awesome thought. I imagine how fast I would have to be travelling to get to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye, and then at the same rate of speed continuing onward further and further and deeper and deeper into the universe, seeing galaxies and nebulas whizzing by the further and deeper I went. I'd also think that maybe, just maybe, the further I went the more I would be going back to older generations, you know, since I'd be starting from here and thinking that our Father is maybe closer to us than his Father before him and his Father before him, etc. So maybe it could be that the further and deeper I went into the universe the more I would see of past generations where our Father's Father and Grandfather, etc, had their own galaxies to govern. So, anyway, as I was traveling at that high rate of speed I'd be wondering if there was ever going to be a place where the galaxies ended and there was nothing but empty space, thinking maybe the first generation of our kind of being would maybe be out that far into the universe. But as far as my answer to the question goes, No, I don't think I'd ever get to the point where the first generation of our kind of being came to be, because I don't believe there is a first generation. But who knows, maybe if I traveled far and deep enough I could be proven to be wrong.

Anyways, here is the rest of the song:

2. Or see the grand beginning,
Where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation,
Where Gods and matter end?
Methinks the Spirit whispers,
“No man has found ‘pure space,’
Nor seen the outside curtains,
Where nothing has a place.”

3. The works of God continue,
And worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression
Have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter;
There is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit;
There is no end to race.

4. There is no end to virtue;
There is no end to might;
There is no end to wisdom;
There is no end to light.
There is no end to union;
There is no end to youth;
There is no end to priesthood;
There is no end to truth.

5. There is no end to glory;
There is no end to love;
There is no end to being;
There is no death above.
There is no end to glory;
There is no end to love;
There is no end to being;
There is no death above.

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872
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I desire to show you who I am by showing you who I follow.
He is my Lord. He is my Life. He is all I desire to be.

Speaking against the NATURE of sin: To the last I grapple with thee,
From Hell's Heart I stab thee; For Hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee...

#15 rpn

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:28 AM

Well, the no end to race is a real problem, because race is a mortal construct completely (unless one is talking about the human race).
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#16 Ahab

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 11:35 AM

Well, the no end to race is a real problem, because race is a mortal construct completely (unless one is talking about the human race).

Whether you think of race as referring to the whole human race or just a sub-culture of it, there is no end to any of it, and it didn't start with just us on this planet because there are and always have been other planets like ours.
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I desire to show you who I am by showing you who I follow.
He is my Lord. He is my Life. He is all I desire to be.

Speaking against the NATURE of sin: To the last I grapple with thee,
From Hell's Heart I stab thee; For Hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee...

#17 Ron Beron

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:00 PM

To all the above....Hmmmm, aha, and great hymn
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"Truth is enlightenment, and enlightenment is of God. Shedding light on what passes as truth is not only permitted; it is necessary, the highest calling."

Erasmus


#18 Bernard Gui

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:11 PM

1. The Ralph Vaughan-Williams music is sublime, as is most of his music. The old music, not so much.
2. I believe "race" refers to the extended family of the Gods.
3. If this is God's work, I really, really, really, really want to help, even if it is just to sweep up the debris with the Gods are finished with the job:

http://apod.nasa.gov...d/ap121029.html

Posted Image

Edited by Bernard Gui, 14 June 2013 - 12:14 PM.

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 "I can't undertake to explain Brigham Young to your Atlantic citizens, or expect you to put him at his value. Your great men Eastward are to me like your ivory and pearl-handled table knives, balanced handles, more shiny than the inside of my watch case; but, with only edge enough to slice bread and cheese or help spoon victuals, and all alike by the dozen one with another. Brigham is the article that sells out West with us -- between a Roman cutlass and a beef butcher knife, the thing to cut up a deer or cut down an enemy, and that will save your life or carve your dinner every bit as well, though the handpiece is buck horn and the case a hogskin hanging in the breech of your pantaloons. You, that judge men by the handle and sheath, how can I make you know a good BLADE?" Jedediah M. Grant
 
 

#19 Ron Beron

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:21 PM

1. The Ralph Vaughan-Williams music is sublime, as is most of his music. The old music, not so much.
2. I believe "race" refers to the extended family of the Gods.
3. If this is God's work, I really, really, really, really want to help, even if it is just to sweep up the debris with the Gods are finished with the job:

http://apod.nasa.gov...d/ap121029.html

Posted Image

Thanks for the posting...The Williams' composition is "‘Five Variants on Dives and Lazarus"
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"Truth is enlightenment, and enlightenment is of God. Shedding light on what passes as truth is not only permitted; it is necessary, the highest calling."

Erasmus


#20 Ahab

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 12:27 PM

If you guys are going to be listening to music as you hie to Kolob, and beyond, you're going to be missing out on the natural sounds of all that you'll be passing. Might want to turn it down at least a little bit. I'd rather just travel in silence for at least my first few trips.

Edited by Ahab, 14 June 2013 - 12:29 PM.

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I desire to show you who I am by showing you who I follow.
He is my Lord. He is my Life. He is all I desire to be.

Speaking against the NATURE of sin: To the last I grapple with thee,
From Hell's Heart I stab thee; For Hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee...


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