rongo Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 I'm looking for references and quotes (from Greg Prince's biography about President McKay) concerning the Brethren's concern about Elder McConkie's book. Specifically, I am looking for information on Marion G. Romney being assigned to critique the book, his involved critique and recommendations, and President McKay's reluctance to go too far in reprimanding him out of concerns that it would hamper his influence with Church members. Along with this, Elder McConkie's failure to follow certain things he told the Brethren he would (i.e., rename the book, etc.).I don't (and won't) have access to Prince's book for some time, and need relevant quotes from Prince's book, plus his citations for these sections. This is to help a concerned member.Thanks so much in advance!
Duncan Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 You also want to consult Elder McConkie's bio written by his son Joseph-fascinating read!
Calm Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) http://www.examiner.com/article/a-brief-history-of-mormon-doctrineIf you need more, please give me specific points and quotes so I don't spend all night trying to recreate the whole book...which I might do once I get started. IOW, check off anything that this article does for you and point me to the rest. Edited June 11, 2013 by calmoriah
Tacenda Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 You seem to be a very caring guy and bishop, and one who isn't afraid to look into things.
Calm Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) This might be helpful as well to provide context: http://ndbf.blogspot.com/2010_05_01_archive.htmlAlso: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rich_jj/Sandbox/Mormon_Doctrine_(book)This guy examines various entries in MD: http://www.wheatandtares.org/tag/mormon-doctrine/You might be able to find some of the quotes here: http://books.google.com/books?id=3UBXLIkLEQwC&q=%22Mormon+doctrine%22#v=snippet&q=%22Mormon%20doctrine%22&f=false Edited June 11, 2013 by calmoriah
Scott Lloyd Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 You seem to be a very caring guy and bishop, and one who isn't afraid to look into things.Not that it matters, but he has been released.
K-2 Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Chapter five of Bruce R. McConkie: Highlights From His Life & Teachings by Dennis B. Horne covers the incidents related to the book Mormon Doctrine as well.Here's a .pdf of the short version of Elder Romney's report, and relevant entries from David O. McKay's office journal:http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=%22mormon%20doctrine%22%20report%20%22marion%20g.%20romney%22&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&ved=0CGIQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fzackc.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F06%2Fmcconkie-and-mormon-doctrine.pdf&ei=ESG3UZf2MOTK0gHa6YHIDg&usg=AFQjCNHru7f9hXB3gCKZshOprOMcmBORjQ
ERayR Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) Not that it matters, but he has been released.I knew that if he messed around long enough they would release him. Can't have those independent thinkers in responsible positions. Edited June 11, 2013 by ERayR
Tacenda Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 I knew that if messed around long enough they would release him. Can't have those independent thinkers in responsible positions. ERayR, you're probably kidding, so don't know why I'm wasting this post. But I'm sure it's because Rondo's calling as bishop was expired because the time he put forth was the recommended time.
Stone holm Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Interesting thread. It is my understanding from an essay written by Pres. Kimball's son, that Pres. Kimball sent Bruce R. McConkie back to research his opinions on the curse of Cain as they related to the Priesthood, and that BRM eventually acknowledged his errors before the revelation on the extension came along.
ERayR Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 IMNSHO it is a shame that the few errors there are have restricted the usefulness of this much needed and overall very good work.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 ERayR, you're probably kidding, so don't know why I'm wasting this post. But I'm sure it's because Rondo's calling as bishop was expired because the time he put forth was the recommended time.Yes, ERayR was kidding, and yes, as far as I know, Rongo served for an appropriate length of time and was then released, as all bishops eventually are. 3
thesometimesaint Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 IMNSHO it is a shame that the few errors there are have restricted the usefulness of this much needed and overall very good work.Now if we retitled it McConkie Doctrine we'll agree. 3
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 I'm looking for references and quotes (from Greg Prince's biography about President McKay) concerning the Brethren's concern about Elder McConkie's book. Specifically, I am looking for information on Marion G. Romney being assigned to critique the book, his involved critique and recommendations, and President McKay's reluctance to go too far in reprimanding him out of concerns that it would hamper his influence with Church members. Along with this, Elder McConkie's failure to follow certain things he told the Brethren he would (i.e., rename the book, etc.).I don't (and won't) have access to Prince's book for some time, and need relevant quotes from Prince's book, plus his citations for these sections. This is to help a concerned member.Thanks so much in advance!I just think it is interesting that will all the cult talk that accompanying our faith, to see how Elder McConkie did what the wanted and that the brothers whom do not always agree can still work together to grow the Kingdom. Bruce R for the most part was using his father-in-laws note from "Answers to Gospel Questions" written by Joseph Feilding Smith, grandson of Hyrum Smith.
ERayR Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Now if we retitled it McConkie Doctrine we'll agree.Disdain noted.
thesometimesaint Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Disdain noted.No disdain. From the Title page of BRM's Mormon Doctrine "The views expressed herein are the responsibility of the author and do not necessarily represent the position of the Church or of Deseret Book Company".
cinepro Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 IMNSHO it is a shame that the few errors there are have restricted the usefulness of this much needed and overall very good work.Can you clarify what you mean by "few errors"? More specifically, can you point out which of the articles denoted here you would want to have continually spread throughout the Church with apostolic attribution?What's Wrong With Mormon Doctrine?
ERayR Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Can you clarify what you mean by "few errors"?More specifically, can you point out which of the articles denoted here you would want to have continually spread throughout the Church with apostolic attribution?What's Wrong With Mormon Doctrine?I am not going to do a book review for this thread. If you are interested I am sure some critic of BRM and the Church would be happy to oblige you.
Stone holm Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) When I joined the Church in '76, Mormon Doctrine was still in full vogue. I think if the title had been different it, 1) would not have been so popular, and 2) people would not have looked upon it as much of an authoritative reference on doctrine. When you publish something with a title like that, it better be extremely accurate and when in doubt not make a statement. Unfortunately, although it was and is a fascinating read sort of like reading Cleon Skousen at times, it was extremely popular and contained a lot of opinions mixed in with the doctrine -- and the stuff that most people used it for were the opinions, not the doctrine. Those were wild and wooly times, people were reading Skousen's First Two Thousand years and lapping it up like it was coming straight from heaven, Paul H. Dunn was wandering around telling delightfully funny and interesting tall tales about his baseball and military exploits, a man named West was producing fascinating filmstrips about wonderous discoveries and opinions. Edited June 11, 2013 by Stone holm
ERayR Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 When I joined the Church in '76, Mormon Doctrine was still in full vogue. I think if the title had been different it, 1) would not have been so popular, and 2) people would not have looked upon it as much of an authoritative reference on doctrine. When you publish something with a title like that, it better be extremely accurate and when in doubt not make a statement. Unfortunately, although it was and is a fascinating read sort of like reading Cleon Skousen at times, it was extremely popular and contained a lot of opinions mixed in with the doctrine -- and the stuff that most people used it for were the opinions, not the doctrine. Those were wild and wooly times, people were reading Skousen's First Two Thousand years and lapping it up like it was coming straight from heaven, Paul H. Dunn was wandering around telling delightfully funny and interesting tall tales about his baseball and military exploits, a man named West was producing fascinating filmstrips about wonderous discoveries and opinions.And like the apocrypha there was much good in all of them. I note that the books still being published contain a lot of opinions mixed in with the doctrine -- and the stuff that most people use them for are the opinions, not the doctrine. Skousen's thousand year books opened up the Old Testament for me. I have gone on from there but his work first opened my interest and understanding of it. Anybody who didn't know that Paul Dunn was elaborating was indeed dense and his stories held ones attention while he made his point. As for West I vaguely remember the name. Didn't he play Batman.
Stone holm Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 (edited) And like the apocrypha there was much good in all of them. I note that the books still being published contain a lot of opinions mixed in with the doctrine -- and the stuff that most people use them for are the opinions, not the doctrine. Skousen's thousand year books opened up the Old Testament for me. I have gone on from there but his work first opened my interest and understanding of it. Anybody who didn't know that Paul Dunn was elaborating was indeed dense and his stories held ones attention while he made his point. As for West I vaguely remember the name. Didn't he play Batman.Oh I loved Paul H. Dunn, he was one of the funniest speakers I have ever encountered. I also think Skousen's books are a good read, I cringed last Sunday, however, when he got quoted in Sunday School. My point was that particular era seemed to abound with people writing and saying stuff that was entertaining, interesting, and....filled with lot of opinions and stuff that had to be taken with a very healthy dose of salt. Edited June 11, 2013 by Stone holm
ERayR Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Oh I loved Paul H. Dunn, he was one of the funniest speakers I have ever encountered. I also think Skousen's books are a good read, I cringed last Sunday, however, when he got quoted in Sunday School. My point was that particular era seemed to abound with people writing and saying stuff that was entertaining, interesting, and....filled with lot of opinions and stuff that had to be taken with a very healthy dose of salt.No more so than right now. Just peruse Deseret Book site or go to a "church" bookstore. The shelves are full of opinion mixed with scripture. Not that it is bad. I think that most members go through a period when these offerings play a role in their development.
Stone holm Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 No more so than right now. Just peruse Deseret Book site or go to a "church" bookstore. The shelves are full of opinion mixed with scripture. Not that it is bad. I think that most members go through a period when these offerings play a role in their development.Its been awhile since I perused a "Church" bookstore, the last couple time I went it was dominated by "warm and fuzzy" and "self-improvement" type fluff. I get enough pablum at Church without supplementing it. 1
Senator Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 Anybody who didn't know that Paul Dunn was elaborating was indeed dense and his stories held ones attention while he made his point. No kidding! Sheesh......stupid people.
Tacenda Posted June 11, 2013 Posted June 11, 2013 No kidding! Sheesh......stupid people.Count me as one of them!
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