God'S Control Over Weather

[Brian 2.0]

In light of some recent tragic events in oklahoma, I have a question I've often had that I've never been able to come to much terms with.

What control does God have over weather? My blanket assumption during my more active days is that weather is an independent system of moving parts independent of God but that God can intervene at anytime and stop certain weather events from happening, or cause certain weather events to happen, if He so chooses.

My problem with the whole thing is reconciling a God who is answering prayers for something seeminly small (rain because it's been a little dry for the crops) vs. not intervening when a tornado takes out an elementary school and children die.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just curious how some reconcile this in a way I may not have heard before.

[volgadon]

What gets overlooked in these discussions is that God does not always answer the small prayers.

[TAO]

Brian, does God see death as a horrible thing, like we do (considering we will be Resurrected) ? At least in my opinion, I don't think so. He just sees it as the next step in life. Albight, I'm sure he wants some of us to do certain things before we die (repent? I know I need to do that more!), but for others, I'm sure he thinks the time to return is good at this point. And so he takes us when the time for us has come. Sometimes it's because the time is right, and other times it's because we've run out of time, but he will take each one of us back to him.

I wouldn't worry so much about it, as because he is just, recompense is always there, in some sense of the word. He wouldn't do things unjustly, I know that.

Edited May 21, 2013 by TAO

[thesometimesaint]

In light of some recent tragic events in oklahoma, I have a question I've often had that I've never been able to come to much terms with.

What control does God have over weather? My blanket assumption during my more active days is that weather is an independent system of moving parts independent of God but that God can intervene at anytime and stop certain weather events from happening, or cause certain weather events to happen, if He so chooses.

My problem with the whole thing is reconciling a God who is answering prayers for something seeminly small (rain because it's been a little dry for the crops) vs. not intervening when a tornado takes out an elementary school and children die.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just curious how some reconcile this in a way I may not have heard before.

Sometimes God allows for evil events for us to prove to ourselves what we really are like. We are not the problems/challenges that we are faced with, but our response to them.

We all will die eventually. God is just. He gives us back our lives.

[CV75]

My problem with the whole thing is reconciling a God who is answering prayers for something seeminly small (rain because it's been a little dry for the crops) vs. not intervening when a tornado takes out an elementary school and children die.

He does both, but not all the time, according to His wisdom. I think He makes His decisions based on what He knows will maximize His children's agency, individually and collectively, in the long run. Sometimes that can bring great sorrow and loss, but our eternal agency is defended and preserved.

[Duncan]

I want to know where is Man's wisdom in all of this? why can't people predict these disasters and forewarn others?

[Questing Beast]

...

My problem with the whole thing is reconciling a God who is answering prayers for something seeminly small (rain because it's been a little dry for the crops) vs. not intervening when a tornado takes out an elementary school and children die.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just curious how some reconcile this in a way I may not have heard before.

There is the reason why such capricious things are called "acts of God" in the legalese. Nobody can reconcile the dichotomies you point out. IMHO, "God" does not mess with weather. What "God" does influence is individual situations, and probably through the criteria of previous "agreement", i.e. the pattern a life or connected lives are supposed to follow. This existence stuff is far more complex that we allow for, being Infinite in fact, and that includes all the possibilities of all the individual lives involved. Think about that forever.

Back in mid 1985, my wife was behind the wheel of our Chevy Impala, I was trying to get some sleep in the back seat on the right side, and our four children occupied the rest of the seats. Our baby daughter in the car seat to my left, in the middle of the back seat, started to get fussy, and my wife told our oldest child to go back there and quiet his baby sister so that daddy could sleep. He got out of his seat belt and threw his right leg over the back of the front seat, during which operation my wife was distracted by his brother next in age, who had also taken off his seat belt: his mother told him several times to put his seat belt back on, meanwhile losing concentration on where she was pointing the car. It went left wheels into the barrow pit. I had a blanket over my head, and at this point started to grab at it to see what was going on. Then I heard my wife shriek and felt the car leap up and to the right. As I got the blanket off my face my eyes oriented on the direction the car was traveling - looking out the left-hand rear passenger window behind my wife's head! The left rear of the car continued to swing out as we went off the freeway and down the shallow decline, toward the point where the desert waited to pitch the car over. It was one of those slow motion moments of sheer, speechless terror. As the left side of the car dug deeper into the sand of the decline, I felt myself rising into the air as the right side lifted me up (the left rear tire blew entirely off the rim as the car skidded off the freeway), and visions of the impending multiple rollover flashed in my imagination, pure carnage inside the crushed cab for those running to to the wreck to find, all unconscious and bashed to death, man, wife, kids, a welter of bloody pulp. Probably at least one child would survive, to be ruined for life. Maybe I'd survive to be ruined for life. All of this flashed as inevitable, the moment the car would reach the bottom of the decline and the angle of attack of the left wheels would increase, pitching the car over, and over, and over until it finally stopped. We were on cruise control at near eighty miles-per-hour.

The vacationing cop riding with his wife behind us said to her, "My God! they've rolled!" as our Impala disappeared from view in the cloud of dust. But then, inexplicably, they saw our car emerge from the dust cloud, loping across the low dunes until we came to a halt. No roll over.

From my perspective, the decline ended, the desert floor arrived, and a "glitch" occurred, a kind of blip in everything, where the moment of the rollover came, but instead the car was suddenly going straight ahead and I was looking out the windshield disbelievingly.

Reflecting on all of this again, now, convinces me that powers are at work behind each life in mortality, and we don't end the experience until everything we agreed to is fulfilled. That includes "resets" to the scenario where everyone would otherwise die or be inexcusably mangled beyond function, etc. We all, or most of us, died that day in the desert north of Las Vegas, but we agreed to the "reset" and continued on. The brain simply tosses the incident as being without explanation, a "glitch" of sorts, and moves on. Weather control is like that, sometimes the scenario of those spared the natural effects of a disaster is "reset".

I read once of a "flying bathtub" during a tornado, where a mom and her two infant children were hiding, and the wind took the bathtub out of the house and up, and then gently deposited it upright many feet away from the former bathroom, which by then was no more. That wasn't weather control, that was control of the scenario, for whatever reason or complex of reasons. We'll all find out how and why, someday....

[thesometimesaint]

We are getting better at predicting them. Despite the horrible toll in lives and possessions the economic incentive is to do what we can AFTER a disaster.

[cdowis]

I have found this interesting.

DC 117: 1

Verily thus saith the Lord unto my servant William Marks, and also unto my servant Newel K. Whitney, let them settle up their business speedily and journey from the land of Kirtland, before I, the Lord, send again the snows upon the earth.

[MormonMason]

Freakin' Chaos Theory and Butterfly Effect! Maybe we should wipe out all butterflies and see if that prevents wind storms on the other side of the planet?

Seriously, though, see Spencer W. Kimball's Tragedy or Destiny? for some insight into suffering of this kind.

As for my own views, I know that the Lord does sometimes intervene in weather. I have experienced it and someone I know asked the Lord to do it for him once and it was done. You should have seen it! I was there and saw it with my own eyes. He asked did not want some personal property that belonged to someone else to be damaged by the hard falling rains. He also told a non-member that he would pray to get the rains to stop after walking her home. He thought he might put a stop to the storm by commanding it to stop. He tried that twice but the storm only got worse and the rains heavier.

He realized that he was being a bit prideful and ducked under a roof to pray. He prayed that the rains would be stopped just long enough for him to get home so that the personal property he was carrying would not be damaged, and by being damaged, force him in his poverty to pay for it. Exactly at that moment the rains stopped. The clouds parted all the way across the sky, leaving it raining only where the clouds remained. It was so all the way to his home. As soon as he got home, the clouds within minutes closed up and the rains began again. The personal property belonging to someone else was protected with his own becoming slightly damp.

In my view, God set up the conditions whereby weather and climate occur. He also can override the elements for his own purposes, whatever they might be. Of course, it is impossible to know all the circumstances of every situation at all times. Sometimes the Adversary can alter elements to accomplish his purposes, too. Sometimes it just happens just because.

[JAHS]

Speaking of weather:

"for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matt 5: 45)

This verse makes it sound like he has an active hand in what the weather does or does not do. Whatever His reason it gives us opportunity to serve others and "mourn with those that mourn and comfort those that stand in need of comfort" (Mos 18:9)

Edited May 21, 2013 by JAHS

[blackstrap]

Do you remember the pioneer era story where one of the brethren was told to " get up and move your wagon " ? If you live on a flood plain , or in tornado alley ,or on an active fault line, or near a volcano, perhaps the best answer to the inevitable disaster is " get up and move your house" .

[Brian 2.0]

Do you remember the pioneer era story where one of the brethren was told to " get up and move your wagon " ? If you live on a flood plain , or in tornado alley ,or on an active fault line, or near a volcano, perhaps the best answer to the inevitable disaster is " get up and move your house" .

I have to kind of laugh at that story, because in the end the pioneers settled on the active wasatch fault line well overdue for a large earthquake.

[Brian 2.0]

Freakin' Chaos Theory and Butterfly Effect! Maybe we should wipe out all butterflies and see if that prevents wind storms on the other side of the planet?

Seriously, though, see Spencer W. Kimball's Tragedy or Destiny? for some insight into suffering of this kind.

As for my own views, I know that the Lord does sometimes intervene in weather. I have experienced it and someone I know asked the Lord to do it for him once and it was done. You should have seen it! I was there and saw it with my own eyes. He asked did not want some personal property that belonged to someone else to be damaged by the hard falling rains. He also told a non-member that he would pray to get the rains to stop after walking her home. He thought he might put a stop to the storm by commanding it to stop. He tried that twice but the storm only got worse and the rains heavier.

He realized that he was being a bit prideful and ducked under a roof to pray. He prayed that the rains would be stopped just long enough for him to get home so that the personal property he was carrying would not be damaged, and by being damaged, force him in his poverty to pay for it. Exactly at that moment the rains stopped. The clouds parted all the way across the sky, leaving it raining only where the clouds remained. It was so all the way to his home. As soon as he got home, the clouds within minutes closed up and the rains began again. The personal property belonging to someone else was protected with his own becoming slightly damp.

In my view, God set up the conditions whereby weather and climate occur. He also can override the elements for his own purposes, whatever they might be. Of course, it is impossible to know all the circumstances of every situation at all times. Sometimes the Adversary can alter elements to accomplish his purposes, too. Sometimes it just happens just because.

This is type of thing that hard for me to swallow. There were no doubt plenty of prayers being said at the elementary school to protect the children, but children still died. I agree with what Volgadon said that there are plenty of small prayers unanswered as well as big prayers unanswered. But the idea that God can stop the rain for a guy walking home and also stop the tornado from killing children, but for whatever reasons chooses to stop the rain for the guy, but NOT stop the tornado from killing the children... it's just doesn't sit well to me.

I know there's the whole "God views death differently that us" "all will be compensated" points, but it's still make it really hard. It's one thing to provide compensation and blessings for something terrible that happened that you couldn't have stopped, but compensating for something tragic that happened that you could have stopped... just sort of... just dosen't sit well.

[Avatar4321]

What is death when Christ has already made the resurrection inevitable for everyone who has ever lived on earth?

We are all meant to die sometime in mortality. Some sooner than others.

The Lord has higher purposes and natural disasters can help accomplish them. Just look at the good of the nation rallying around to help and bless these people. The Lord gives us trials to strengthen our faith.

[Avatar4321]

This is type of thing that hard for me to swallow. There were no doubt plenty of prayers being said at the elementary school to protect the children, but children still died. I agree with what Volgadon said that there are plenty of small prayers unanswered as well as big prayers unanswered. But the idea that God can stop the rain for a guy walking home and also stop the tornado from killing children, but for whatever reasons chooses to stop the rain for the guy, but NOT stop the tornado from killing the children... it's just doesn't sit well to me.

I know there's the whole "God views death differently that us" "all will be compensated" points, but it's still make it really hard. It's one thing to provide compensation and blessings for something terrible that happened that you couldn't have stopped, but compensating for something tragic that happened that you could have stopped... just sort of... just dosen't sit well.

Then look at it from an eternal perspective. The Lord gives and the Lord takes away.

[Brian 2.0]

Then look at it from an eternal perspective. The Lord gives and the Lord takes away.

Wait until :27

I get that. And I love how calm the dude is that came out of the cellar. But if I am someone who has lost my child in the tornado and I hear someone in fast and testimony meeting talking about how God stopped the rain so the thing he was carrying wouldn't get wet, I would have a hard time mustering up the faith to not simply shake my fist at God saying, "really? You spare him the trial of getting wet and don't spare me the trial of losing my child?" I would take much more solace believing in a God who simply doesn't get involved in weather.

[Garden Girl]

I'm reminded of a line in the movie "The Other Side of Heaven" when Elder Groberg and three others are heading to another island to teach a family... Their sailboat is lanquishing because of no wind... so they all pray... finally one Counselor says that he was thinking... somewhere on the sea someone is praying for a headwind... and they are praying for a tail wind... so why not just pray for a good wind...

So one Counselor and Elder Groberg get in the small dingy they are towing and start rowing, the sailboat to catch up the next day as winds returned.

I've had enough answers to prayer to know that prayers are heard... I've received some very specific answers... and some have gone unanswered , or at least the answer was no at that particular time.

Through the years my husband and I went to Couer d'Alene, Idaho almost every summer, looking forward to the day when we could build our retirement home there... finally the time came to buy a lot and my prayers were that we would find one suitable and all would go well. The day we were to put the down payment on a beautiful lot overlooking the lake, the developer stopped all sales... he realized he could get more money per lot by waiting.

So we left Idaho as we had to get back to San Fran. Hubby said, Let's go home through Oregon... and we came here to the coast. We found a lot in the pines, overlooking the ocean... so we bought it and built our retirement home. A few years later my husband died unexpectedly... I had reactivated 3 years earlier, and though alone I have the support of my ward family... I live 2 hrs from a temple... I do not have to shovel snow or worry about cold winters and hot summers... in other words, this is where I belong, particularly being a widow and alone.

Was the Lord's answer to my prayers that we... I... was to be here instead of northern Idaho? And so the lot we found was here??? I know now that this is the best place for me...

GG

[EllenMaksoud]

In light of some recent tragic events in oklahoma, I have a question I've often had that I've never been able to come to much terms with.

What control does God have over weather? My blanket assumption during my more active days is that weather is an independent system of moving parts independent of God but that God can intervene at anytime and stop certain weather events from happening, or cause certain weather events to happen, if He so chooses.

My problem with the whole thing is reconciling a God who is answering prayers for something seeminly small (rain because it's been a little dry for the crops) vs. not intervening when a tornado takes out an elementary school and children die.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just curious how some reconcile this in a way I may not have heard before.

God does not need to control the weather. Remember, he is God. We lose sight of the fact that what is important is how we lived our lives here, and the good stuff comes after.

[thesometimesaint]

Do you remember the pioneer era story where one of the brethren was told to " get up and move your wagon " ? If you live on a flood plain , or in tornado alley ,or on an active fault line, or near a volcano, perhaps the best answer to the inevitable disaster is " get up and move your house" .

The only good thing about living where we have good sized trembles is that we don't have to pick up our possessions five counties over.

[Storm Rider]

I tend to believe that our Father in Heaven has created certain natural laws that govern ocean tides, winds, rain, etc. Our Father intervenes at times, but for the most part he allows things to roll forth. I am reminded of an old saying, "Work like everything depends on you and pray like everything depends on the Lord." Some of us tire of praying about things that appear never change or where we never see our Father's hand, but I think that misses the point. It is not how many times God answers our prayers that count, it is how many times we humble ourselves before him and acknowledge him in all things both good and bad. I have tried to live according to this principle, but one of the downsides is that I find that I have become rather stoic. I seldom celebrate the great events and seldom slow my step with the arrival of trials and tribulations. I think I miss out on a lot and often exert a conscious decision to remember to celebrate the small and great things in life. I have a long way to go, but I think that is the better path.

[MormonMason]

[media=]

Wait until :27

I get that. And I love how calm the dude is that came out of the cellar. But if I am someone who has lost my child in the tornado and I hear someone in fast and testimony meeting talking about how God stopped the rain so the thing he was carrying wouldn't get wet, I would have a hard time mustering up the faith to not simply shake my fist at God saying, "really? You spare him the trial of getting wet and don't spare me the trial of losing my child?" I would take much more solace believing in a God who simply doesn't get involved in weather.

I think you misunderstand the intent in sharing this event I witnessed. He couldn't care less whether he got wet, he was asking God to protect someone else's property. Please also keep in mind that the guy was barely out of his teens when this happened. I know it seems trivial but it showed the amount of faith the young guy had. And, fact is, God did as he asked. I have no idea why. But, sometimes God intervenes in the weather.

Nevertheless, it would be a good idea to at least give Spencer W. Kimball's Tragedy or Destiny? a read. Sometimes God does not act unless people specifically ask him as a test of faith. Maybe a lot of people failed to do that. Maybe it was just something God wanted to happen to wake every body up. God sometimes chastises us with loss. Sometimes it is just something that happens as a result of the system that has been put into place. Sometimes, God has another purpose in mind that we may never know until the day we meet him face to face.

Raising a fist at God is never a good idea. When I was younger I actually did that with real intent. If he had been there I might have hit him if I could have for something I was really angry about. I did not like the result and have never done that or anything the like since. But, I can understand why some people would look at this and say that there is no God. I used to be a rabid atheist, resulting in the spiritual deconversions of friends and family of several faiths in the days of my youth. Then, I met God and learned the hard way how stupid I was back then. God is as real as you and I. I know it and I cannot deny it.

[theplains]

What control does God have over weather?

I found this mentioned in Doctrines of Salvation, volume 3. If this sermon was preached

today, I suspect it would get mention on CNN.

Regards,

Jim