Sine Saw Square Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 One of the kids in my seminary class said his (LDS) piano teacher, who apparently is a choir director, told him that there is a hymn in the hymnal that won't be sung until the second coming. I have never heard of this and a quick google search reveals nothing. Is my student misunderstanding his piano teacher, is it a Mormon Rumor, or is it an actual thing?
kryoung1983 Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 And aplagues shall go forth, and they shall not be taken from the earth until I have completed my work, which shall be cut bshort in righteousness— 98 Until all shall aknow me, who remain, even from the least unto the greatest, and shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, and shall bsee eye to eye, and shall lift up their voice, and with the voice together csing this new song, saying: 99 The Lord hath brought again Zion;The Lord hath aredeemed his people, bIsrael,According to the celection of dgrace,Which was brought to pass by the faithAnd ecovenant of their fathers. 100 The Lord hath redeemed his people;And Satan is abound and btime is no longer.The Lord hath gathered all things in cone.The Lord hath brought down dZion from above.The Lord hath ebrought up Zion from beneath. 101 The aearth hath travailed and bbrought forth her strength;And truth is established in her bowels;And the heavens have smiled upon her;And she is clothed with the cglory of her God;For he dstands in the midst of his epeople. 102 Glory, and honor, and power, and might,Be ascribed to our God; for he is full of amercy,Justice, grace and truth, and bpeace,Forever and ever, Amen. 1
Questing Beast Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) Your cut and paste has butchered it.The Lord hath brought again Zion;The Lord hath redeemed his people, Israel,According to the election of grace,Which was brought to pass by the faithAnd covenant of their fathers.The Lord hath redeemed his people;And Satan is bound and time is no longer.The Lord hath gathered all things in one.The Lord hath brought down Zion from above.The Lord hath brought up Zion from beneath.The earth hath travailed and brought forth her strengthAnd truth is established in her bowels;And the heavens have smiled upon her;And she is clothed with the glory of her God;For he stands in the midst of his people.Glory, and honor, and power, and might,Be ascribed to our God; for he is full of mercy,Justice, grace and truth, and peace,Forever and ever, Amen.It's in D&C 84:99-102 Edited May 14, 2013 by Questing Beast 1
Scott Lloyd Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Sounds very Isaiah-like in phrasing.I wonder if the "new song" concept is to be taken literally or if it is figurative imagery. 1
Questing Beast Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) Many years ago I was so impressed with imagining what it would be like to stand on the earth and sing that hymn before the Lord. I tried to imagine the music grand enough to accompany those words in precisely the punctuation given. The closest existing piece of music that I know of is Ralph Vaughn Williams' "Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis". [media=] To this day I still hear variations on that "Fantasia" to go along with the words of the hymn. (Of course, as Vaughn Williams created it, it doesn't fit, and would need to be a "Variations on a Fantasia by Vaughn Williams" in order to work out as the music for the hymn.)I believe that somebody needs to create the music now, so that we can sing it now and therefore be ready to sing it on the occasion of the Lord's return. To assume that we will just break forth into spontaneous song and sound wonderful and worshipful, smacks of some kind of mind control that I don't want to contemplate. If we have this hymn and its music already embedded into our subconsciousness that is too creepy to contemplate.D&C doesn't say we can't sing the hymn beforehand, it just says that that is the hymn ("new song") we "survivors" will sing upon deliverance and the appearance of the Lord (it doesn't even say specifically that either, it says that all the people of the earth, after the Lord has cut short his work/plagues "in righteousness", that everyone will sing the hymn, seeing "eye to eye" and "being filled with the knowledge of the Lord", etc). If it is going to be a beloved hymn, then someone must create the music, and we must start singing it now. The words are surely the most solemn, reverential and joyful I know of. I can't understand why someone hasn't tried to come up with the music long before now. It's a (or even THE) Millennial Hymn that everyone will know by heart.... Edited May 14, 2013 by Questing Beast
Sine Saw Square Posted May 14, 2013 Author Posted May 14, 2013 So, no official hymn in the hymn book. That's what I thought.I was vaguely aware of the DC 84 reference. Isn't that scripture more symbolic rather than a literal hymn? I mean it doesn't even rhyme My student must have heard about this scripture passage and got confused- though he maintains that his piano teacher/choir director said it's a song that he (the teacher) teaches the choir but they can't sing in meetings- just so they are ready for the Second Coming. Maybe the teacher put it to music?...Johnny Cash FTW.
Stone holm Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 So, no official hymn in the hymn book. That's what I thought.I was vaguely aware of the DC 84 reference. Isn't that scripture more symbolic rather than a literal hymn? I mean it doesn't even rhyme My student must have heard about this scripture passage and got confused- though he maintains that his piano teacher/choir director said it's a song that he (the teacher) teaches the choir but they can't sing in meetings- just so they are ready for the Second Coming.Maybe the teacher put it to music?...Johnny Cash FTW.Wow, never heard this before....sounds kind of like the JW's preparing the Sacrament but not taking it because they aren't amongst the 144,000.
cinepro Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 I'm pretty sure "In our Lovely Deseret" shouldn't be sung until the second coming.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 Sounds very Isaiah-like in phrasing.I wonder if the "new song" concept is to be taken literally or if it is figurative imagery.Well, Isaiah (the entire book) is one long poem of sorts.
Sine Saw Square Posted May 14, 2013 Author Posted May 14, 2013 I'm pretty sure "In our Lovely Deseret" shouldn't be sung until the second coming.There will be great catastrophes at the time of the second coming so you may be on to something.
Duncan Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 (edited) There will be great catastrophes at the time of the second coming so you may be on to something.oh, probably something from Justin Bieber or U2 then Edited May 14, 2013 by Duncan 1
mfbukowski Posted May 14, 2013 Posted May 14, 2013 oh, probably something from Justin Bieber or U2 thenCould be that is actually one of the predicted catastrophes! 2
Bernard Gui Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) I'm pretty sure "In our Lovely Deseret" shouldn't be sung until the second coming.Ditto "For the Strength of the Hills," "Our Mountain Home So Dear," and "Oh Ye Mountains High." Their time has passed. Or maybe it is yet to come. Edited May 15, 2013 by Bernard Gui 1
Bernard Gui Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 Your cut and paste has butchered it.The Lord hath brought again Zion;The Lord hath redeemed his people, Israel,According to the election of grace,Which was brought to pass by the faithAnd covenant of their fathers.The Lord hath redeemed his people;And Satan is bound and time is no longer.The Lord hath gathered all things in one.The Lord hath brought down Zion from above.The Lord hath brought up Zion from beneath.The earth hath travailed and brought forth her strengthAnd truth is established in her bowels;And the heavens have smiled upon her;And she is clothed with the glory of her God;For he stands in the midst of his people.Glory, and honor, and power, and might,Be ascribed to our God; for he is full of mercy,Justice, grace and truth, and peace,Forever and ever, Amen.It's in D&C 84:99-102This demands being set to music by a very good composer. 2
Maidservant Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 When I was a teenager, I put those words in D & C 84 to music.There is also some imagery (and/or?) about singing a new song, in the book of Revelation.In fact, some really great imagery of songs throughout scriptures, in connection with renewal and joy (which is what the millenium is about also).
Stargazer Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 To assume that we will just break forth into spontaneous song and sound wonderful and worshipful, smacks of some kind of mind control that I don't want to contemplate. If we have this hymn and its music already embedded into our subconsciousness that is too creepy to contemplate.Many many years ago in my youth I stood up in Sunday School opening exercises in order to give a talk (yes, THAT long ago). I had prepared it diligently in advance, and I knew exactly what I wanted to say and how to say it. The talk was even written out in detail. That was the talk I would not give.I stood up, placed the paper before me on the podium, and said the opening I had decided to start with. After that, however, it all went another way. I started giving a talk I had not prepared -- it wasn't even close to the same topic -- and the words came to me pretty much out of the air. I didn't know what I was going to say next, and I just went with the flow, somewhat scared, but also with a good amount of exhilaration. When the words stopped flowing, and they came to a completely logical conclusion, I said Amen and sat down. I have a hard time explaining how I felt at that point, but I knew what had happened, and I knew whose words I had spoken. And do you know what? At no time during this experience did I feel any degree of mind control, and "creepiness" did not enter into it one whit. I could have forced the words back at any time and I could have re-started my own self-written talk. But why should I have done so? If God could not trust that I would go with HIS words when He gave them to me, how could I ever expect that He would trust me ever again? No, I was a willing conduit for those words.I later found out that there was a sister in the congregation that the talk had been given to benefit -- through some side conversation that did not involve my talk -- and the confirmation of this to me was that my attention during the talk was drawn to her several times, and that she her attention was highly focussed on what I was saying. Heady stuff for a 17-year-old who was fairly new in the Church.Well, the upshot of this is simply this: I can understand how we could end up singing a song we had never before heard before, if we were in the Spirit and the Lord were to be directing us.And thanks for the Vaughn Williams post. That was beautiful. 3
Questing Beast Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 ...Well, the upshot of this is simply this: I can understand how we could end up singing a song we had never before heard before, if we were in the Spirit and the Lord were to be directing us....Spontaneous inspiration to individuals is one thing, massive, group spontaneity is quite another, imho. It would be like a huge mind control demonstration. If, on the other hand, everybody who stands on the earth at that imagined future time, had "the song" already in their head before they were born here, i.e. "we" had all learned it together to come forth with it at some future time, and we all remembered the words together, I wouldn't be so averse to the idea. But the way I think about religion, compared to how I used to think about it, makes me pull back from that concept of prearranged events. Having "God" know the end from the beginning (speaking within our space-time paradigm) is one thing: having all of us arrange before the fact how the mortal world will "play out" smacks of a combined effort at some elaborate "role-play". If that's what earth life really is I suppose I will accept later what I knew before, but where I am right now, I don't believe it. I believe we are more individual and egocentric than that. In other words, I believe that our individual relationship with "God" is overarching, and we don't require any sort of group inspiration to validate faith. One on one with "God" seems more to the point of what existence is for. Then a planet of such beings will indeed see "eye to eye", being in like relationships with "God"....
volgadon Posted May 15, 2013 Posted May 15, 2013 When I was a teenager, I put those words in D & C 84 to music.There is also some imagery (and/or?) about singing a new song, in the book of Revelation.In fact, some really great imagery of songs throughout scriptures, in connection with renewal and joy (which is what the millenium is about also).Try Psalm 98 as well.
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