Mormons Have Lowest % Of Interfaith Marriage

[smac97]

Here:

According to Naomi Schaefer Riley’s new book Till Faith Do Us Part, 36% of American marriages are now interfaith (when all brands of Protestantism are lumped together). This is up from 15 percent in 1988 and 25 percent in 2006.

But there’s a significant outlier to the national trend toward intermarriage. My own part-member family notwithstanding, Mormons are the least likely of any religious group to marry outside the fold, at just 12%.

Here are seven reasons Riley gives for the low rates of interfaith marriages among Mormons. The first is obvious; a few others make good sense when you stop to think about them; and the last one is surprising but likely all too true.

1) The theology of eternal families confirms same-faith marriage as a goal for all Mormons.

...

2) Mormon young people serve missions at exactly the time when many might drift away from organized religion.

...

3) Mormons prohibit premarital sex.

...

4) The LDS Church is run by laypeople and thus requires a significant time commitment on the part of an entire family.

...

5) Mormons are loving and welcoming toward part-member families.

...

6) As many as one-third of marriages that start out as part-Mormon become same-faith marriages over time.

...

7) People don’t like Mormons.

Jana Reiss includes some rather interesting commentary for each of these items. The article in its entirety is worth a read. The book, too.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Scott Lloyd]

Makes me sad to say it, but items 1 through 6, praiseworthy though they are, contribute to item 7, I fear.

That reflects worse on those who do the disliking than those who are disliked.

All in all, though, I'm glad we as a people score so well in this regard. Interfaith marriage is a bad idea, for anybody.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Ahab]

7) People don’t like Mormons.

I keep meaning to have a bumper sticker made for my pickup truck that says "Mormons rule !"

I figure it'd go right along with playing country music while going down the road with my hillbilly hat on to a rodeo.

[Stone holm]

I keep meaning to have a bumper sticker made for my pickup truck that says "Mormons rule !"

I figure it'd go right along with playing country music while going down the road with my hillbilly hat on to a rodeo.

I wonder if there could be an eighth factor namely when Mormons marry outside the Church they tend to leave the Church, so they don't show up in the percentages. Some Sisters will valiantly continue to be active with a non member husband, but most men who marry outside the Church normally either convert their wife, leave the Church, or become a divorce statistic. Of my six sons only the two who married in the Church are active.

[Calm]

Also interfaith marriages among LDS have a very high divorce rate.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1385547?uid=3739928&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102182468571

[smac97]

All in all, though, I'm glad we as a people score so well in this regard. Interfaith marriage is a bad idea, for anybody.

I can't agree with that last comment. Interfaith marriages have added challenges (and, as noted by Jana Reiss, have "noticeably" higher incidents of divorce than same-faith marriages), but I can't say they are categorically a "bad idea."

Thanks,

-Smac

[Brenda]

Makes me sad to say it, but items 1 through 6, praiseworthy though they are, contribute to item 7, I fear.

That reflects worse on those who do the disliking than those who are disliked.

All in all, though, I'm glad we as a people score so well in this regard. Interfaith marriage is a bad idea, for anybody.

If this is true, I'd love to hear the explanation of those doing the disliking. Because reason does not support those feelings.

[Mudcat]

Thankful God has allowed Mrs. Mudcat and myself to buck the odds.

[Stone holm]

I don't want to leave the impression that I think interfaith marriages are wrong. I also know of women who for decades were married to non member husbands who eventually became members and even leaders in the Church, and I have wonderful daughters in law who are non members who I feel are soul mates to my sons. Statistics sometimes hide truth rather than reveal it.

[Scott Lloyd]

I can't agree with that last comment. Interfaith marriages have added challenges (and, as noted by Jana Reiss, have "noticeably" higher incidents of divorce than same-faith marriages), but I can't say they are categorically a "bad idea."

Thanks,

-Smac

I say it because, unless one spouse converts (an unlikely prospect) they result in an abandonment or diminishing of religious commitment and dedication. And from an LDS standpoint, the inevitable result is children born out of the covenant who may never find their way.

Reis paints a rosy picture of her own marriage even as she tells us she left the choice of religion up to her daughter, who goes another way.

I can't see that as a good thing, no matter how it's spun.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

If this is true, I'd love to hear the explanation of those doing the disliking. Because reason does not support those feelings.

They'd probably rationalize it in some way, but I think it's a matter of human nature: people resent others who seem to have it all together when what they should do is try to learn from their example.

I could view it another way, a scriptural one: the church of the devil making war against the church of the Lamb of God by turning people's hearts against the saints.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Scott Lloyd

[why me]

Of my six sons only the two who married in the Church are active.

The pressure can be too much. Many women and men who are not members find it difficult to allow their member spouses to go to three hour blocks of meetings. Or prepare for callings etc. It is also difficult to resist the nonmember spouses wanting to do sunday shopping, activities etc on the sabbath. For many couples, sunday is perhaps the only day that they are together for a long period of time.

[why me]

I say it because, unless one spouse converts (an unlikely prospect) they result in an abandonment or diminishing of religious commitment and dedication. And from an LDS standpoint, the inevitable result is children born out of the covenant who may never find their way.

Reis paints a rosy picture of her own marriage even as she tells us she left the choice of religion up to her daughter, who goes another way.

I can't see that as a good thing, no matter how it's spun.

If we go back in time and not that very back in time, interfaith marriage was discouraged for most faiths. Catholic families would be horrified if their son or daughter married a protestant, which is one reason why the Irish, Polish, and Italians seemed to intermarry. Likewise for the swedes, finns, and germans, danes etc. The religion provided the meeting point. I think that interfaith marriages tend to be less active in their churches or one of the spouses has 'allowed' their spouse to go to church. I can see this happening if the faith requires a sunday service of an hour or so.

[dgd]

7) People don’t like Mormons.

After my mission I met a girl at university who wanted to have a Mormon husband. She knew a lovely Mormon couple and from what she saw she had decided that she wanted a Mormon man. Never seemed to occur to her that a Mormon man might want a Mormon woman.

Having grown up in a part member family, dating someone that was not a member was not even an option in my mind.

[Bikeemikey]

They'd probably rationalize it in some way, but I think it's a matter of human nature: people resent others who seem to have it all together when what they should do is try to learn from their example.

I could view it another way, a scriptural one: the church of the devil making war against the church of the Lamb of God by turning people's hearts against the saints.

Just to summarize your thoughts...

People who dislike Mormons are either jealous of how together we are or of the devil?

In my opinion it is actually Mormons who think along these lines and then share those thoughts with the world that produce dislike of "Mormons".

However number 7 is a red herring. A recent pew study has suggested that Mormons are not disliked... In fact we are actually very well liked. We are however reasonably unknown.

[Calm]

A recent pew study has suggested that Mormons are not disliked...

CFR please. If so, this is recent change as to prior to this, LDS were rated the lowest alongside Muslims, I believe. It would be very nice if our 'approval rating had gone up.

[Stone holm]

The pressure can be too much. Many women and men who are not members find it difficult to allow their member spouses to go to three hour blocks of meetings. Or prepare for callings etc. It is also difficult to resist the nonmember spouses wanting to do sunday shopping, activities etc on the sabbath. For many couples, sunday is perhaps the only day that they are together for a long period of time.

Yeah, I think in many cases what you say is true. Unfortunately, it is not true in the cases of my non-member daughter-in-laws. The problem there is a more fundamental ethical and moral issue. They are intensely family oriented with very high moral and ethical standards. The public perception of the Church is the perception derived by the public activities of the members, especially their political and social views. As a result, the public perception of the Church is often tinged by the political and social views expressed by its prominent people and to the extent know the majority of its members. In our case, the public perception of the Church is a right wing organization with un-Christ like intolerant political views which tend to limit personal liberties while ignoring the plight of the poor and oppressed, and of a people which tend to be overly dogmatic and ideological. Since they have little or no historical connection to the Church they do not see that despite their political rhetoric Mormons tend to be a very kind and generous people who are trying to follow Christ. My daughter-in-laws who are active Mormons on the other hand, have been able to set aside and to the extent possible ignore the political rhetoric and social intolerance and focus on the actual teachings of Christ and the goodness of the people -- they exercise a healthy cognitive dissonance when necessary to reconcile our religious beliefs and science. But the non-members have no incentive to perform this type of mental gymnastics and simply do not want the political ideology and intolerance to have any place in their homes. They are not pushy in their beliefs, just firm about what stuff they allow in their homes.

[go_utes01]

Yeah, I think in many cases what you say is true. Unfortunately, it is not true in the cases of my non-member daughter-in-laws. The problem there is a more fundamental ethical and moral issue. They are intensely family oriented with very high moral and ethical standards. The public perception of the Church is the perception derived by the public activities of the members, especially their political and social views. As a result, the public perception of the Church is often tinged by the political and social views expressed by its prominent people and to the extent know the majority of its members. In our case, the public perception of the Church is a right wing organization with un-Christ like intolerant political views which tend to limit personal liberties while ignoring the plight of the poor and oppressed, and of a people which tend to be overly dogmatic and ideological. Since they have little or no historical connection to the Church they do not see that despite their political rhetoric Mormons tend to be a very kind and generous people who are trying to follow Christ. My daughter-in-laws who are active Mormons on the other hand, have been able to set aside and to the extent possible ignore the political rhetoric and social intolerance and focus on the actual teachings of Christ and the goodness of the people -- they exercise a healthy cognitive dissonance when necessary to reconcile our religious beliefs and science. But the non-members have no incentive to perform this type of mental gymnastics and simply do not want the political ideology and intolerance to have any place in their homes. They are not pushy in their beliefs, just firm about what stuff they allow in their homes.

CFR re: the public perception of the Church. Most everybody I meet is impressed with the LDS Church and what it does in the community and throughout the world.

[Stone holm]

CFR re: the public perception of the Church. Most everybody I meet is impressed with the LDS Church and what it does in the community and throughout the world.

The LDS Church does not have a major community presence in Vermont with the possible exception of Sharon/South Royalton where the Joseph Smith Memorial and Camp Joseph are located. Generally, although local Wards make efforts -- they are not as involved in the local communities as are the long term Churches which tend to be more liberal in orientation -- these are considered the community churches not the LDS Church. While we do get some credit for our worldwide disaster interventions and assistance, this tends to be overshadowed by our political rhetoric and LDS political candidates are few and far between and generally dismissed as hard right John Birchers. While there had been some improvement in our public standing garnered in my personal observation since 1994 when we moved to Vermont, it was pretty much canceled out because of the political activism associated with the Civil Unions debate. Two of my children were living in Burlington at the time going to UVM, they said Mormons basically became a hiss and a by-word up there by the majority of the people, especially after the Church Representative in the debates made the argument about curing gayness with a Church inspired 12 Step Program. Vermont is a little unusual in that it is a highly educated, but rural State -- while it used to be substantially Republican, it was a moderate/liberal Republican wing which was fiscally conservative, but socially moderate. As the Republican Party nationally moved strongly to the right, the party went in decline in the State. Although we have elected moderate Republican governors. People in Vermont continue to put a high value on local communities and local businesses -- to the extent that when we moved here there were no Wal-Marts in the State, now there are I think three in the whole State, they can get in only by buying former grocery stores and remodeling them. They are also very strong on environmentalism and on local very small scale agriculture. In other words, what we are primarily known for out here is our strong support of sexual morality which while important is not considered the be all and end all, and definitely not if it gets projected in the form of intolerance for gays and lesbians. So we tend to be known primarily for our intolerance. The other stuff is stuff they already know and practice -- since you have a lot of people who served in the Peace Corps up here, our efforts in that respect are not considered all that outstanding.

[go_utes01]

The LDS Church does not have a major community presence in Vermont with the possible exception of Sharon/South Royalton where the Joseph Smith Memorial and Camp Joseph are located. Generally, although local Wards make efforts -- they are not as involved in the local communities as are the long term Churches which tend to be more liberal in orientation -- these are considered the community churches not the LDS Church. While we do get some credit for our worldwide disaster interventions and assistance, this tends to be overshadowed by our political rhetoric and LDS political candidates are few and far between and generally dismissed as hard right John Birchers. While there had been some improvement in our public standing garnered in my personal observation since 1994 when we moved to Vermont, it was pretty much canceled out because of the political activism associated with the Civil Unions debate. Two of my children were living in Burlington at the time going to UVM, they said Mormons basically became a hiss and a by-word up there by the majority of the people, especially after the Church Representative in the debates made the argument about curing gayness with a Church inspired 12 Step Program. Vermont is a little unusual in that it is a highly educated, but rural State -- while it used to be substantially Republican, it was a moderate/liberal Republican wing which was fiscally conservative, but socially moderate. As the Republican Party nationally moved strongly to the right, the party went in decline in the State. Although we have elected moderate Republican governors. People in Vermont continue to put a high value on local communities and local businesses -- to the extent that when we moved here there were no Wal-Marts in the State, now there are I think three in the whole State, they can get in only by buying former grocery stores and remodeling them. They are also very strong on environmentalism and on local very small scale agriculture. In other words, what we are primarily known for out here is our strong support of sexual morality which while important is not considered the be all and end all, and definitely not if it gets projected in the form of intolerance for gays and lesbians. So we tend to be known primarily for our intolerance. The other stuff is stuff they already know and practice -- since you have a lot of people who served in the Peace Corps up here, our efforts in that respect are not considered all that outstanding.

So, to be clear, your claims regarding the public perceptions of the LDS Church are specific only to your area or perhaps the State of Vermont? My experience, and I have lived in Utah, the Philippines (as a missionary), New York, California, and now Florida, has been quite the opposite.

[why me]

Yeah, I think in many cases what you say is true. Unfortunately, it is not true in the cases of my non-member daughter-in-laws. The problem there is a more fundamental ethical and moral issue. They are intensely family oriented with very high moral and ethical standards. The public perception of the Church is the perception derived by the public activities of the members, especially their political and social views. As a result, the public perception of the Church is often tinged by the political and social views expressed by its prominent people and to the extent know the majority of its members. In our case, the public perception of the Church is a right wing organization with un-Christ like intolerant political views which tend to limit personal liberties while ignoring the plight of the poor and oppressed, and of a people which tend to be overly dogmatic and ideological. .

Unfortunately, they have an American understanding of mormonism and its members. The mormon church is a worldwide church and I know of many members overseas who are socialists, greens, liberals, conservatives and centralists. In fact, many members do not consider themselves to be conservatives and their overseas conservativism would be considered liberal in America. It seems that your family has a good excuse but not a good reason if one considers the mormon church a world wide church full of members of various political persuasions. For example, here is the green party website from Great Britain. There are members in the Uk who support the greens. http://www.greenparty.org.uk/ Edited May 9, 2013 by why me

[Stone holm]

So, to be clear, your claims regarding the public perceptions of the LDS Church are specific only to your area or perhaps the State of Vermont? My experience, and I have lived in Utah, the Philippines (as a missionary), New York, California, and now Florida, has been quite the opposite.

Well I have only lived in Indiana and Vermont. In Indiana there is a more favorable opinion of the Church because it is a conservative State, the problem there is the widespread teaching the we are a cult -- so in Indiana we tended to be attacked rather viciously from the right and the left was more of a ho-hum moving on sort of thing. In Vermont and I would say that I am pretty close to be on target, in New Hampshire there is a larger proportion of libertarian Republicans or just plain libertarians so the taint is not as bad. Maine is a bipolar State so it just depends where you live. Massachusetts had a healthy respect for Mormons for awhile because Mitt Romney while he was running for and while he was governor as a moderate, almost liberal Republican, the State turned on him and consequently on Mormons in general when he made a hard swerve to the right to get the nomination. I don't know about Connecticut or Rhode Island. Mormonism is a hard sell in New England. What part of New York did you live in? I am not surprised that there would be a pro-Mormon attitude in California or Florida.

[Stone holm]

Well I have only lived in Indiana and Vermont. In Indiana there is a more favorable opinion of the Church because it is a conservative State, the problem there is the widespread teaching the we are a cult -- so in Indiana we tended to be attacked rather viciously from the right and the left was more of a ho-hum moving on sort of thing. In Vermont and I would say that I am pretty close to be on target, in New Hampshire there is a larger proportion of libertarian Republicans or just plain libertarians so the taint is not as bad. Maine is a bipolar State so it just depends where you live. Massachusetts had a healthy respect for Mormons for awhile because Mitt Romney while he was running for and while he was governor as a moderate, almost liberal Republican, the State turned on him and consequently on Mormons in general when he made a hard swerve to the right to get the nomination. I don't know about Connecticut or Rhode Island. Mormonism is a hard sell in New England. What part of New York did you live in? I am not surprised that there would be a pro-Mormon attitude in California or Florida.

I wouldn't say that there is a large anti-Mormon crowd in Vermont, like there is in Indiana, I would just say that amongst a very large swath of Vermonters they just will no longer have anything to do with us religiously. And our Ward, back when I was Bishop and before, was considered a "garden" ward for missionary work in the Mission we regularly tied for most baptisms with a ward up in Maine. The Ward I came from in Indiana had basically zero baptisms and its my understanding still has none -- but that is because of the anti-Mormon propaganda of the Christian Right. The liberals and moderates there aren't anti-Mormon, they just aren't interested in us period.

[go_utes01]

Well I have only lived in Indiana and Vermont. In Indiana there is a more favorable opinion of the Church because it is a conservative State, the problem there is the widespread teaching the we are a cult -- so in Indiana we tended to be attacked rather viciously from the right and the left was more of a ho-hum moving on sort of thing. In Vermont and I would say that I am pretty close to be on target, in New Hampshire there is a larger proportion of libertarian Republicans or just plain libertarians so the taint is not as bad. Maine is a bipolar State so it just depends where you live. Massachusetts had a healthy respect for Mormons for awhile because Mitt Romney while he was running for and while he was governor as a moderate, almost liberal Republican, the State turned on him and consequently on Mormons in general when he made a hard swerve to the right to get the nomination. I don't know about Connecticut or Rhode Island. Mormonism is a hard sell in New England. What part of New York did you live in? I am not surprised that there would be a pro-Mormon attitude in California or Florida.

I was in the Finger Lakes region of New York - Ithaca, to be exact - during law school.

[Stone holm]

I was in the Finger Lakes region of New York - Ithaca, to be exact - during law school.

Beautiful area -- don't know much about its social norms, etc. One of my sons went to Full Sail down in Florida and it had a huge Mormon contingent attending there in various media endeavors, he managed to lure a couple of them back to Vermont where they have stayed. But getting back to the topic. If kids don't get married in college, and come home to Vermont -- or I suspect most parts of rural America, they are going to find a very limited selection of potential mates and are very likely to marry outside the Church which substantially decreases the likelihood that they will stay active. If they get married in college, and they are not attending a school dominated by Mormons, there is a very strong likelihood they will marry outside the Church. BYU and BYUI play a very, very important role in matching up Mormons for life. BYU even has some really strong departments like the food sciences, business and law departments and other portions of departments are strong as well, and its an extremely good deal financially.