55 replies to this topic

[Ahab]

ERayR, on 16 May 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Tongue in cheek.  Though I would seriously question the use of artificial sweeteners as it seems there is evidence of deleterious effects on the kidneys from their use.

Yeah, so my wife has been telling me lately.  Kinda sad too because I'd rather not have to worry about calories when I'm having a soda.  I think I may have found an okay alternative, though, at least for sodas other than colas.  My boys have a SodaStream machine they use to make sodas from those syrups people use to make Italian sodas with.  For some reason I prefer the fizzy pops instead of drinks without carbonation.  Pretty soon someone will probably say the carbonation isn't good for us, either.

[Stone holm]

Ahab, on 16 May 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Yeah, so my wife has been telling me lately.  Kinda sad too because I'd rather not have to worry about calories when I'm having a soda.  I think I may have found an okay alternative, though, at least for sodas other than colas.  My boys have a SodaStream machine they use to make sodas from those syrups people use to make Italian sodas with.  For some reason I prefer the fizzy pops instead of drinks without carbonation.  Pretty soon someone will probably say the carbonation isn't good for us, either.

If you were around my wife much, the "pretty soon" would have already be past tense, carbonation isn't good for us. Not that I pay attention.

[Ahab]

Stone holm, on 16 May 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

If you were around my wife much, the "pretty soon" would have already be past tense, carbonation isn't good for us. Not that I pay attention.

For me it doesn't count until my wife tells me something.  And even then I will usually still wait for God to tell me, too.

[EllenMaksoud]

TruthSeeker2013, on 16 May 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Fascinating. I love to hear stories of big-tent Mormonism. On another note, while you distingiush your beliefs from your culture, I've often wondered what it would be like to be both Mormon and Jewish, for example, or Mormon and Buddhist. I think it could be enlightening.

I know Mormons that are very into Buddisim and will often say Namistase to others, or even over the pulpit. I have traveled a bit and love to learn of other cultures. It is extremely surprising to me that Mormons send Missionaries all over the world, but they seem to bring little of it home. It really makes me gnash my teeth when people tell me that Hijab is a religious symbol. Yallah !!!

Muhammad PBUH traveled a great deal before Islam and talked to Jews and Christians. I have heard that Joseph Smith had a Qur'an and read it. Knowledge is where we find it people ! I know a man that worked in Saudi Arabia for ARAMCO for 10 years and had his family with him. The wife even speaks of wearing the Niqab when she went out of the compound. How could a whole family live over there and not bring back some cultural understanding?

I like to think that in my experiences I learned from the good and the bad.

It's been 26 months since Heavenly Father dragged a very frightened and rejected feeling Muslim woman to the Mormons.  These are the happiest days of my life!

[ERayR]

EllenMaksoud, on 16 May 2013 - 08:43 PM, said:

I know Mormons that are very into Buddisim and will often say Namistase to others, or even over the pulpit. I have traveled a bit and love to learn of other cultures. It is extremely surprising to me that Mormons send Missionaries all over the world, but they seem to bring little of it home. It really makes me gnash my teeth when people tell me that Hijab is a religious symbol. Yallah !!!

Muhammad PBUH traveled a great deal before Islam and talked to Jews and Christians. I have heard that Joseph Smith had a Qur'an and read it. Knowledge is where we find it people ! I know a man that worked in Saudi Arabia for ARAMCO for 10 years and had his family with him. The wife even speaks of wearing the Niqab when she went out of the compound. How could a whole family live over there and not bring back some cultural understanding?

I like to think that in my experiences I learned from the good and the bad.

It's been 26 months since Heavenly Father dragged a very frightened and rejected feeling Muslim woman to the Mormons.  These are the happiest days of my life!

It has been my experience that a great many missionaries do bring back with them the most important things they learned in their missions.  Almost 100% bring back a respect and love for the people they served and almost that many find a renewed respect and love of their own country and culture.  What more could you ask than respect for and love of others from a different culture combined with a new respect and commitment to their own.

Congratulations on 26 months of commitment and growth and happiness.  May it continue for eternity.

[Stone holm]

Ahab, on 16 May 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

For me it doesn't count until my wife tells me something.  And even then I will usually still wait for God to tell me, too.

Actually, that reminds me of an incident that occurred shortly after we were baptised in 76, the Sisters who taught us , taught that caffeinated beverages except hot chocolate were within the ban. We were busily engaged in missionary work and one eager investigator who spoke broken English thought they said "carbonated" beverages and was aghast when they accepted Vernors at our house. We raised our kids shunning caffeinated beverages, and that seemed to be the general tradition in our area, but we noticed that people moving in from out west did not follow that tradition. Although most of my large family are inactive, I notice that most still obey the word of wisdom and still inquire as to whether the root beer is the type with caffeine in it or not when at a restaurant, all of them except my daughter who is an MD and chases down caffeine pills with Mountain Dew...go figure.

[EllenMaksoud]

ERayR, on 03 May 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

I have become comfortable enough with who I am that I would not and do not compromise my principles to be accepted or liked.  I think it is a mistake to do so.  If you do you end up with no principles and no friends.

It feels strange and unusual to begin to know people who have not feared for their life at their father's hand. It is also wonderful.

[Tacenda]

EllenMaksoud, on 17 May 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

It feels strange and unusual to begin to know people who have not feared for their life at their father's hand. It is also wonderful.

Ellen, it breaks my heart to hear of your suffering at the hands of your father.  I hope you find many father figures in the church to take his place.  I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds in saying this.  I've heard many times that an abused child still loves their parent.  But they can only take so much.

Edited by Tacenda, 2 days ago.

[EllenMaksoud]

Tacenda, on 17 May 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Ellen, it breaks my heart to hear of your suffering at the hands of your father.  I hope you find many father figures in the church to take his place.  I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds in saying this.  I've heard many times that an abused child still loves their parent.  But they can only take so much.

The miracle of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is that people are healed of things that others think are impossible. Finding the Tablets, The Stone Box, the early settlements, the proof is just unnecessary when Heavenly Father barges into your life.

[ronin]

It is interesting to note that the word of wisdom is just that, a recommendation. I know that in the last century the church has come down on the side of it being a commandment but the fact remains that for the first half  of the history of the church all of the things mentioned in the word of wisdom were used by all in the church. I understand the principle of line upon line and that we are supposed to be held to a higher standard however when you consider that mild alcoholic drinks have been used and there use documented by our scriptures from the beginning it makes you wonder why the Lord suddenly changed his mind and told us no more.

[Stone holm]

ronin, on 17 May 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

It is interesting to note that the word of wisdom is just that, a recommendation. I know that in the last century the church has come down on the side of it being a commandment but the fact remains that for the first half  of the history of the church all of the things mentioned in the word of wisdom were used by all in the church. I understand the principle of line upon line and that we are supposed to be held to a higher standard however when you consider that mild alcoholic drinks have been used and there use documented by our scriptures from the beginning it makes you wonder why the Lord suddenly changed his mind and told us no more.

It has always been my understanding that The Lord was giving the Saints time to get their act together, kind of like with cola drinks today. The Brethren have from time to time made casual comments about not having them in their home which is kind of like the original status of the W of W.  You also need to understand that alcohol use in the 19th century was much, much more heavy than today and people who by today's standards we would consider alcoholics back then were considered basically normal.  It was difficult to transport corn and apples so whiskey and apple jack were trade commodities.

[Questing Beast]

Being "tipsy" has to be a whole lot more desirable than dead from consuming spoiled food and drink! But if "tipsy" turns into falling down drunk and destroys your liver, kidneys and brain, then the use of fermentation has gone too far. As alcohol has been and is the single greatest "escape" from hardship and reality, it seems to me that "God" might want to use a religious proscription to better the world a tiny bit. The WoW justifies Mormonism all by itself....

[Robert F. Smith]

ronin, on 17 May 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

It is interesting to note that the word of wisdom is just that, a recommendation. I know that in the last century the church has come down on the side of it being a commandment but the fact remains that for the first half  of the history of the church all of the things mentioned in the word of wisdom were used by all in the church. I understand the principle of line upon line and that we are supposed to be held to a higher standard however when you consider that mild alcoholic drinks have been used and there use documented by our scriptures from the beginning it makes you wonder why the Lord suddenly changed his mind and told us no more.

So your picture of early Mormons is that every one of them was chewing tobacco, smoking, and drinking booze.  All of them.  I can just see Emma with a chaw in her cheek, spitting at the spitoon, while Joseph enjoyed his Meerschaum pipe.  A kingdom of priests and a holy nation?

[Tacenda]

 Robert F. Smith, on 19 May 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

So your picture of early Mormons is that every one of them was chewing tobacco, smoking, and drinking booze.  All of them.  I can just see Emma with a chaw in her cheek, spitting at the spitoon, while Joseph enjoyed his Meerschaum pipe.  A kingdom of priests and a holy nation?

I think the advent of not receiving a TR unless you follow the WofW changed a lot of peoples habits.  I just saw the movie The Great Gatsby,  they talked about the roaring 20's and free flowing alcohol, things sure have evolved from then.  I don't believe Emma chewed tobacco, but she probably drank wine and tea.  Also, I always wondered when I'd read the supplies that were allowed on a handcart, and it included coffee.  Yep, WoW didn't seem to be the commandment it is today.

[Stone holm]

Tacenda, on 19 May 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I think the advent of not receiving a TR unless you follow the WofW changed a lot of peoples habits.  I just saw the movie The Great Gatsby,  they talked about the roaring 20's and free flowing alcohol, things sure have evolved from then.  I don't believe Emma chewed tobacco, but she probably drank wine and tea.  Also, I always wondered when I'd read the supplies that were allowed on a handcart, and it included coffee.  Yep, WoW didn't seem to be the commandment it is today.

No question about that.  Even BY chewed.

[Robert F. Smith]

Tacenda, on 19 May 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I think the advent of not receiving a TR unless you follow the WofW changed a lot of peoples habits.  I just saw the movie The Great Gatsby,  they talked about the roaring 20's and free flowing alcohol, things sure have evolved from then.  I don't believe Emma chewed tobacco, but she probably drank wine and tea.  Also, I always wondered when I'd read the supplies that were allowed on a handcart, and it included coffee.  Yep, WoW didn't seem to be the commandment it is today.

Correct, Tacenda.
I was responding to ronin's irresponsible suggestion that everyone broke all the rules of the WofW.  In fact, one reason for the WofW was Emma's objection to the ugly mess of chewing tobacco on her floor where the men missed the spitoon.  The temperance movement was a big thing then also.  A great many people, including many early Mormons, objected to smoking, booze, and any other use of stimulants.  My own Methodist ancestors took the pledge and stopped drinking whiskey in about 1825.  Turned out in retrospect that the money they spent on booze was put to better use, aside from their wives and children being much happier with dear old dad.

It should be no secret that humans enjoy recreational drug use (whether legal or illegal), and that people cannot be forced to curtail such usage.  That is why Prohibition was a failure, and why our modern war on drugs is a failure.  The lessons come hard, and our justice system has been bedeviled by do-gooders who are intent on controlling the habits of others.