Should Women Have The Priesthood? My Sister Seems To Think So, Is There A Possibility Behind It, And Why Would Women Want It?

[MatthewG]

During a recent family gathering my sister brought up the topic of women and the priesthood. She really wouldn't go into it other than she felt like women should be able to hold the priesthood. Is there any precedent for it, do you think it will ever happen, and for any women who read this would you ever want it and why? I don't see the allure.

From my scripture study I was always of the opinion God divided his power in 2, giving women the power to create and nurture life, while giving men the power to bless and lead it. Now I fully understand that is not always the case with every couple and individual and sometimes those roles occasionally are reversed, but on a whole that seem to be my understanding.

Why would women want the priesthood other than mortal pride or self satisfaction, I can't seem to imagine something they'd gain in the afterlife in heaven by having held the priesthood.

Anyway just looking for insight, from both sides of the topic.

Do not project negative traits to women as a group if you want to stay on the board.

[Nathair/|\]

Ask her whose priesthood and who should get to decide who gets it.

[canard78]

You might want to read this thread on the same topic:

And this: http://ordainwomen.org

I guess their perspective is that both male and female get parenthood, only men get priesthood.

For some women, denying them the priesthood is as offensive as how some felt/feel about the denial of black men the priesthood. So for some it's a matter of respect and equality.

I think there's a sincerity to the desire, not simply some trumped up feminism. Being able to serve in the priesthood is a genuine blessing, exclusively available to men. Being a parent is not an exclusive privilege.

My wife's no longer active. Although it was a minor reason, her impression of the devaluing of women in the organisation (regardless of parenthood) was part of her disaffection with the church.

[Calm]

Why would women want the priesthood other than mortal pride or self satisfaction

So did Abraham want the priesthood for mortal pride and/or self satisfaction or for these reasons below? And if Abraham could righteously desire it and all men, why can't women? What is it about women that makes them wanting the priesthood a thing of pride, yet it is a wonderful desire for men to have that is encouraged among the young men from about the age they join Primary if not before? Is a man who is nonLDS who sees what the Priesthood can do for him and what he can do for others with it, who desires to fulfill righteousness and be of service to God and mankind and who therefore joins the Church and receives the Priesthood...what makes his desire righteous and unselfish and a woman's desire to do exactly the same thing wrong and selfish?

2 And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

http://www.lds.org/s.../abr/1?lang=eng Edited March 19, 2013 by calmoriah

[wenglund]

To me, if there is any devaluing involved in this issue, it the devaluing of God. Those who have decided for themselves who should receive the authority of God, rather than letting God decide that for himself and revealing his will in his chosen way and through his chosen and established channels, they devalue God by position themselves above God. Then, what need have they of God's authority when, by their own presumptuousness, they believe and act as if they have greater authority than God? This makes no sense to me.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Jude2]

On April 28th 1842 Eliza recorded in her min. of the RS;

"he (Joseph) spoke of delivering the keys of the priesthood to the church, and said that faithful members of the Relief Society should receive them in connection with their husbands…"

Woodruff a close friend of the prophet said; "Is it possible that we have the holy priesthood and our wives have none of it? Joseph desired to confer these keys of power upon them in connections with their husbands a wife has certain blessings and powers and rights and is a partaker of certain gifts and blessings and promises with her husband"

"[they] never can hold the Priesthood apart from their husbands" Brigham Young

Speaking of the laying on of hands for healings; Mary Kimball quoting Heber Kimball

"..not by authority of the priesthood invested in them for that authority is not given to woman they might administer by the authority given to their husbands in as much as they were one with their husband."

"…it is not the calling of these sisters to hold the Priesthood, only in connection with their husbands, they being one with their husbands." John Taylor

Now I’ve sat in the Salt Lake Temple with my niece as she was seal to her eternal mate and the sealer said to her ‘his priesthood is now yours’.

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” Gen 2:24

[changed]

The story I tell my daughters - "Sleeping Beauty"

Once upon a time, there was a princess born to a King and Queen in a beautiful kingdom - sadly she was taken from her home, and raised in the country by 3 fairy Godmothers due to an argument at her baby shower (you know this part of the story). So she grows up in the country, not knowing who she really is - she thinks she's a commoner - never in charge of anything, no authority to do anything - but here's the clincher. As a commoner, she learns to love the other commoners, she understands what it is to be subject to rules/taxes/royalty - she learns respect for the peasants, she knows them as she is one of them.... then her prince comes, and she finds out who she is, and she is given authority - she becomes a queen - and she becomes the best queen the land has ever seen because she intimately knows what it is to be a follower. Her laws are just, her understanding is unparalleled... She would have never had that understanding if she had never experienced being a commoner.

As our Savior has taught us through painful example, the best leaders are those who intimately understand who they are leading.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In short, good things come to those who wait - but while we are waiting, let's learn the lessons the journey has to offer.... and even if the little princess never becomes a queen? perhaps she has found something just as valuable - the knowledge and joy that comes from being "with" others (rather than "in front of" them.)

Edited March 19, 2013 by changed

[onthepath]

Why would women want the priesthood other than mortal pride or self satisfaction,

Why would men want the priesthood? Do they see it as a point of pride? of self satisfaction? of duty? of heritage? of right? It seems to me that these assumptions are a reflective projection more than they are a thoughtful consideration about what the priesthood is or ought to be.

Why would women want the priesthood? Could it possibly be that it's because they've spent countless hours listening to and reading about all the ways that the gift of the priesthood - the power to act in God's name - blesses the lives of thousands of people? Could it possibly be that as young girls they sit alongside the boys and hear about responsibility and service and saving ordinances and they want to share in the joy of serving in a valuable, public way? Could it be that as missionaries they spend days or weeks getting to know converts, teaching them and preparing them for baptism and would like to play a more physical and obvious role in welcoming those converts to a new life? Could it be that they (in their extra-spiritual righteousness assigned by many priesthood holders) actually want to serve in yet more ways? That they've raised their children and cared for their husbands and still see needs they cannot fill without ordination?

Or maybe it's because they've been blessed with gifts of administration or leadership or financial acumen and they see so many ways they could serve in wards, branches, stakes and districts where there are shortages of men, but because they are unordained women, they are unable to use their God-given talents to build the kingdom.

Maybe they recognize that since they've been anointed to become leaders in the hereafter, they'd benefit from some hands-on training during their mortal probations.

What if they were actually being prompted by the Spirit to desire ordination enough to talk about it or even ask for it? If they *are* acting on a spiritual prompting and a righteous desire, what will be the responsibilities of those who had the opportunity to listen and encourage and nourish those desires and actions and failed to do so?

[Freedom]

If the church is true, it is guided by a prophet under the direction of Jesus Christ. If it is not, then who cares who is allowed to receive the priesthood. Currently, God wants the priesthood to be held by men. It may change, as did the opening up of the priesthood to all worthy males, or the opening up of baptism to non Jews.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

Quick and easy Answers!

1. Should Women Have The Priesthood?

Yes!

2. Is There A Possibility Behind It?

Yes!

Or at least I like to hope so.

3. Why Would Women Want It?

"If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we --> seek after <-- these things."

4. Is there any precedent for it?

Yes!

In the ancient world, there is extensive precedent for Priestesses after the Celestial Order, as Nibley showed decades ago. Indeed, one might even see Priesthood being exercised by the Biblical Prophetesses such as Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Anna, the four daughters of Philip the Evangelist, and Isaiah's wife!

5. Do you think it will ever happen?

Yes! Hopefully soon! What would be nice is if we could stop trying to pretend to be good [oftentimes male-dominated] Traditional Christians and just admit that we're polytheists who believe in an infinite number of Goddesses right alongside our Gods, and if there really is a Queen of Heaven (who presumably holds some sort of authority), then there is nothing inherently "male" about Priesthood.

6. I don't see the allure.

But others do!

From my scripture study I was always of the opinion God divided his power in 2, giving women the power to create and nurture life, while giving men the power to bless and lead it.

Interestingly idiosyncratic interpretation! From my scripture study, I notice that God seems very concerned with illogical and unnecessary inequalities perpetuated by people invoking His name unfairly to justify further inequalities. Ezekiel 18:29, for instance, says: "O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? Are not your ways unequal?"

Why would women want the priesthood other than mortal pride or self satisfaction?

See my response to question number 3! And, like, stop bein' a meany!

Edited March 19, 2013 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[emarkp]

That would be awesome. They can do the home teaching and moves. I'll skip block time and play Halo.

[EllenMaksoud]

During a recent family gathering my sister brought up the topic of women and the priesthood. She really wouldn't go into it other than she felt like women should be able to hold the priesthood. Is there any precedent for it, do you think it will ever happen, and for any women who read this would you ever want it and why? I don't see the allure.

From my scripture study I was always of the opinion God divided his power in 2, giving women the power to create and nurture life, while giving men the power to bless and lead it. Now I fully understand that is not always the case with every couple and individual and sometimes those roles occasionally are reversed, but on a whole that seem to be my understanding.

Why would women want the priesthood other than mortal pride or self satisfaction, I can't seem to imagine something they'd gain in the afterlife in heaven by having held the priesthood.

Anyway just looking for insight, from both sides of the topic.

Do not project negative traits to women as a group if you want to stay on the board.

I and most women are just too busy to take on another thing! Guys are sort of slackers so they need it to keep them focused. A couple guys have suggested to me that the Priesthood makes them superior to women. They only did it once.

[CASteinman]

Why would men want the priesthood?

Do they really? I have yet to meet any man who was exceptionally eager to get "The Priesthood".

I think that I would best characterize it as this: Many want to be worthy and acceptable.

But I don't believe I have ever seen a man insist that he deserves the priesthood and wants it. I have only very rarely seen someone actively wanting a particular calling in the priesthood.

No... its not a matter of "wanting" it. its a matter of having been called.

[Wanderer7]

The problem with the hypothesis of a matriarchal priesthood is that it does not follow the pattern of heavenly things. God holds the keys of the priesthood. The idea that it can open to women because it opened to blacks neglects the fact that the priesthood is an eternal patriarchal order. Why is it that way? I have no idea. But just the same, it is. It's not a matter of equality. It's a matter of identity. I have a hard time understanding how some temple-attending members don't get that... and more especially, complain about it. Furthermore, the priesthood doesn't bless men any more than it blesses the women in the church.

[blackstrap]

I taught math for many years. In the final high school year the math course had 7 topics. There was a government mandated exam at the end of the course.Every year we educators were given the results broken down by topic.Every year we were instructed to focus on the weak areas where student's marks were lower.Every year I would emphasize more dilligently those weaker areas. Every year the weak areas became stronger. Every year some other area would suffer because I would have to take time from one area to give to the other.

Of course, math topics have no reflection in Real life.

[Wanderer7]

What if they were actually being prompted by the Spirit to desire ordination enough to talk about it or even ask for it? If they *are* acting on a spiritual prompting and a righteous desire, what will be the responsibilities of those who had the opportunity to listen and encourage and nourish those desires and actions and failed to do so?

I have nothing against a woman wanting to have the priesthood per se, any more than a man wanting it. However, men do not petition the Bishop for the right to have the priesthood. The Bishop asks them. There was never a movement by the young men of the church to obtain the priesthood for 12-year olds. It came down through the priesthood. This is not a bottom-up religion, and never will be. It's the whole "ye have not chosen me" method.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Wanderer7

[Stargazer]

I and most women are just too busy to take on another thing! Guys are sort of slackers so they need it to keep them focused. A couple guys have suggested to me that the Priesthood makes them superior to women. They only did it once.

Wow! What did you DO to them? I hope it was painful!

[Stargazer]

Do they really? I have yet to meet any man who was exceptionally eager to get "The Priesthood".

I think that I would best characterize it as this: Many want to be worthy and acceptable.

But I don't believe I have ever seen a man insist that he deserves the priesthood and wants it. I have only very rarely seen someone actively wanting a particular calling in the priesthood.

No... its not a matter of "wanting" it. its a matter of having been called.

In our ward there was a married couple, I forget if newly reactivated or newly baptized, but the husband had dominance issues of some kind. I recall a brief discussion in bishopric meeting (I was clerk) in which the bishop talked over the husband being called to receive the priesthood. He told us that the wife had asked that he not be given the priesthood, since he apparently was looking forward to the extra authority over his wife it would give him.

I don't know what ultimately happened (they moved from the ward, or went inactive, I don't remember which), but I thought it was quite bizarre.

A man that wants the priesthood in order to use it to dominate does not deserve it, and should not be given it, in my opinion.

[Calm]

Do they really? I have yet to meet any man who was exceptionally eager to get "The Priesthood".

Have you talked to too many boys just about to become deacons lately?

[Calm]

Do they really? I have yet to meet any man who was exceptionally eager to get "The Priesthood".

Who in their right mind would be eager to get the Priesthood when it means the below:

“If we live for it, ours can be a power given us from our Heavenly Father that will bring peace to a troubled household. Ours can be a power that will bless and comfort little children, that will bring sleep to tearstained eyes in the wee hours of the morning. Ours can be the power that will bring happiness to a family home evening, the power to calm the unsettled nerves of a tired wife. Ours can be the power that will give direction to a confused and vulnerable teenager. Ours, the power to bless a daughter before she goes on her first date or before her temple marriage, or to bless a son before his departure for a mission or college. Ours, my young brethren, can be the power to stop evil thoughts of a group of boys gathered together in vulgar conversation. Ours can be the power to heal the sick and comfort the lonely. These are some of the important purposes of the priesthood” (H. Burke Peterson, in Conference Report, Apr. 1976, 50–51; or Ensign, May 1976, 33).

And if they aren't eager, then they certainly aren't following the counsel given:

Desire It

We must first have a desire to develop power in the priesthood. The scriptures teach that men receive from the Lord according to their desires (see Alma 29:4; D&C 4:3; 6:8;7:1–3).

http://www.lds.org/m...-the-priesthood

Invite a priest or returned missionary to bear testimony of the gift of the priesthood and the joy that comes from participating in a baptism. Encourage the older boys to look forward to performing priesthood ordinances

http://www.lds.org/l...0004d82620aRCRD

Elder NealA. Maxwell said, “What we insistently desire, over time, is what we will eventually become and what we will receive in eternity” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1996, 26; or Ensign, Nov. 1996, 21 ). Read Abraham 1:2–4 and list the blessings Abraham “sought for” and “desired.” You may also want to highlight them in your scriptures.

http://www.ldsces.org/manuals/old-testament-seminary-student-study-guide/ot-ssg-3-gen-a1.asp

Edited March 19, 2013 by calmoriah

[Rivers]

Is there anything in the scriptures that says that the priesthood is strictly a patriarchal order?

Edited March 19, 2013 by Rivers

[thesometimesaint]

I believe that our Heavenly Mother has all the authority that our Father in Heaven has. Priesthood is a call to serve for men just as the Relief Society is a call to serve for women. But in different areas.

[thesometimesaint]

If President Monson were to announce that women now can hold the priesthood at this upcoming conference, I think that would be great.

Is there anything in the scriptures that says that the priesthood is strictly a patriarchal order?

I think there would need to have considerable additions to our Scriptures before such would happen.

It is the Patriarchal Order. Also consider that wives are to Queens and Priestesses to their husbands in righteousness.

Edited March 19, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[CASteinman]

Have you talked to too many boys just about to become deacons lately?

No. But I was talking about men.

[CASteinman]

Is there anything in the scriptures that says that the priesthood is strictly a patriarchal order?

Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood makes no allowances for any but sons of moses and aaron.