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Hamilton Porter

Deceptive 'Mormonthink' Type Site Est. To Counter Missionary Surge

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I"m only going to link their FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/107332476012425/

We should not report anti- pages to facebook, unless they are fraudulent or malicious. This one is definitely fraudulent.

Am I mistaken? I looked in the FB link you provided and saw several faithful members such as Dan Peterson, Mike Ash, Jeff Lindsay, Boyd Petersen. Maybe they're acting as" keepers of the faith" for this FB group. Edited by Tacenda

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Wow, that is a new low for trickery. Do they admit to being Mormonthink somewhere?

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What is fraudulent about it? Does it claim to be affiliated with The Church?

The following statement on the site is incorrect:

"FAIR Blog (a site dedicated to defending the church, which is funded by the church)"

Neither FAIR nor the FAIR Blog receives any funding from the Church.

WW

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What is fraudulent about it? Does it claim to be affiliated with The Church?

I would also like to see the source that they use to back up this claim:

"Heber C. Kimball, Brigham Young, and other prominent LDS leaders shared wives."

WW

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What is fraudulent about it? Does it claim to be affiliated with The Church?

And, since the KEP hasn't yet been fully studied or understood, I'd like to know how they conclude the following:

"Joseph wrote the Kirtland Egyptian Papers, including an “Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar” translation, which was later shown to be nonsense."

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What is fraudulent about it? Does it claim to be affiliated with The Church?

And, yes, I'm aware that they link to Wikipedia to support their claims.

Wikipedia isn't always the best source, because it depends upon who happens to edit it.

WW

Edited: I mistook Wikipedia page for the FAIR Wiki page and corrected it.

Edited by Wiki Wonka

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What is fraudulent about it? Does it claim to be affiliated with The Church?

Oh, and this one is a jewel:

"Why did the church practice polygamy?"

"Though there is no official church response to this question; many have speculated that it was to quickly populate the world with those born into God’s only true church."

So, in other words, the Church doesn't give a reason, so they just put something speculative and outrageous up on the site in order to shock people.

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What is fraudulent about it? Does it claim to be affiliated with The Church?

Show me where the Church teaches this:

"The most true books [in the Bible] are the ones that include the Joseph Smith translation."

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What is fraudulent about it? Does it claim to be affiliated with The Church?

"We believe that Adam and Eve were literally children of God, having been conceived and born of parents with flesh and bone (Mary being one of God’s wives)."

Really? I mean...really?

I'm sure I can dig up a quote from Orson Pratt or Orson Hyde or Brigham Young that says some of these things, but we all know that this isn't something that we are taught in Church.

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Wikipedia isn't always the best source, because it depends upon who happens to edit it.

We need to get more faithful Mormons to edit Wiki articles.

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Oh, and this one is a jewel:

"Why did the church practice polygamy?"

"Though there is no official church response to this question; many have speculated that it was to quickly populate the world with those born into God’s only true church."

So, in other words, the Church doesn't give a reason, so they just put something speculative and outrageous up on the site in order to shock people.

Apparently the "many" includes Book of Mormon Jacob:

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people [to practice polygamy]; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

http://classic.scriptures.lds.org/en/jacob/2/30#30

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Apparently the "many" includes Book of Mormon Jacob:

This is hyperbole, regardless of what Jacob said:

"quickly populate the world with those born into God’s only true church."

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What is fraudulent about it? Does it claim to be affiliated with The Church?

Here's another one:

"Too many missionaries already come home with life-long mental issues..."

I'd like to see the citation for that one.

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The "Tough Questions" is the heart of this antimormon site with its misinformation and antimormon arguments. Recently the comments were removed and only the antimormon running the web site was allowed to give comments.

I did a comment correcting some of the "errors" and it quickly disappeared.

Edited by cdowis

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It sounds like that site has some of its facts wrong. But does that mean it rises to the level of a "fraudulent site" that should be reported to Facebook? I thought the original post's implication was that the site was somehow deceptively claiming to be affiliated with the LDS Church. If we were to report every Facebook page for spouting things that are not 100% accurate, we would spend every waking moment reporting offending pages. I am pretty sure Grumpy Cat was not really at the Inauguration, for example. There is a difference between a page that expresses opinions you disagree with or makes factual statements you think are wrong, and a page that is "fraudulent."

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It sounds like that site has some of its facts wrong. But does that mean it rises to the level of a "fraudulent site" that should be reported to Facebook? I thought the original post's implication was that the site was somehow deceptively claiming to be affiliated with the LDS Church. If we were to report every Facebook page for spouting things that are not 100% accurate, we would spend every waking moment reporting offending pages. I am pretty sure Grumpy Cat was not really at the Inauguration, for example. There is a difference between a page that expresses opinions you disagree with or makes factual statements you think are wrong, and a page that is "fraudulent."

No, I don't see why anyone would feel the need to report it to Facebook. There is nothing actionable.

It's just one of those sites where a doubter masquerading as a "believer" blissfully proclaims that "we Mormons" cheerfully accept oddball proclamations by 19th-Century Church leaders as representing what 21st-Century Latter-day Saints believe. (And, in the case of "coming home is a casket," an unfortunate story related by Marion G. Romney about what his parents said to him when he left on his mission.)

WW

Edited by Wiki Wonka

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I wish there was a site similar to this one before I left on my mission.

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It tends to be more honest and realistic as compared to the sources that I was given to prepare and study. It certainly would have helped me to focus on the basics of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

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The Standard of Truth has been erected; no unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing; persecutions may rage, mobs may combine, armies may assemble, calumny may defame, but the truth of God will go forth boldly, nobly, and independent, till it has penetrated every continent, visited every clime, swept every country, and sounded in every ear, till the purposes of God shall be accomplished, and the Great Jehovah shall say the work is done. - Joseph Smith

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It tends to be more honest and realistic as compared to the sources that I was given to prepare and study. It certainly would have helped me to focus on the basics of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

I understand what you're saying. The site isn't that far removed from being a site that could be useful. If the glib acceptance of oddball points of 19th-Century doctrine were removed, and some more real information provided about the realities of going on a mission, then I can see the usefulness of such a site. If someone actually explained where some of the oddball stuff originated, then it would prepare missionaries for encountering some of those concepts out in the field.

I'm all for educating missionaries on the types of things that they might run into, but to simply say something like "Why was Joseph Smith imprisoned at Carthage? He was imprisoned for ordering the destruction of the printing press of the Nauvoo Expositor, which he did when he found out they were planning to print an article exposing his involvement in polygamy," then providing nothing more than a link to MormonThink, isn't a great response.

WW

Edited by Wiki Wonka

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It tends to be more honest and realistic as compared to the sources that I was given to prepare and study. It certainly would have helped me to focus on the basics of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

This website would be more what I have in mind:

Mormon Mission Prep

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I understand what you're saying. The site isn't that far removed from being a site that could be useful. If the glib acceptance of oddball points of 19th-Century doctrine were removed, and some more real information provided about the realities of going on a mission, then I can see the usefulness of such a site. If someone actually explained where some of the oddball stuff originated, then it would prepare missionaries for encountering some of those concepts out in the field.

I'm all for educating missionaries on the types of things that they might run into, but to simply say something like "Why was Joseph Smith imprisoned at Carthage? He was imprisoned for ordering the destruction of the printing press of the Nauvoo Expositor, which he did when he found out they were planning to print an article exposing his involvement in polygamy," then providing nothing more than a link to MormonThink, isn't a great response.

WW

First Paragraph - I agree.

Second Paragraph - Same time it isn't a poor response, at least shows what is arguably the factual reality of the situation.

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    • By Sky
      John Dehlin/Mormonstories made this assertion here:
      With that, a few questions came to mind.
      1) What has Daniel Peterson and Lou Midgley said or written that some have found to be so harmful or offensive?
      2) Why do certain critics of Mormonism seem to get to say whatever they want? If increasing the quality or respectfulness of the discourse is the desired outcome, shouldn't it come from both sides? Because I see more accusatory tones/uncharitableness/un-Christlike tactics coming from the critics than the other way around.
      3) By saying that apologetics destroys faith or is un-Christlike, is this simply a tactic to silence or intimidate or attempt to make irrelevant your ideological opponents?
      3) Has your experience with apologetics matched John's description above? Has the Maxwell Institute and FAIR been helpful or harmful to your testimony? What does the Maxwell Institute and FAIR do well, and what could be done to make them better?
      4) These questions and inquiries apply to MormonThink, as well.
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