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nealr

John Dehlin And Faith Reconstruction

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Just wanted to comment, because I have been watching John Dehlin's story and Mormon Stories for the last three or four years.

I saw him start out really wanting it to work within the "staylds" theme, but slowly sliding down that slippery slop, as so many of us do, who start questioning, seriously. It's difficult for some of us to question without, then, starting to emote about what we "think" we are hearing...getting upset, sad, angry, the whole gamut of emotions that go with the feelings that we are losing something we loved.

Experiences and where we end up, on this journey, certainly do vary. John sees himself as happier in the church, than out. That's for him to decide...and I wish him and his family all the best. He's a really good guy and he's done some good work, along the way. I wish him well..and I hope he gets to baptize his son, soon.

P.S. Someone above mentioned weekly interviews with his Bishop. Actually, it has been weekly interviews with his Stake President, going over all of the things he had questioned, that caused him to go inactive. He said, the Stake President didn't really have good answers to his questions. What resonated with John was the SP's loving, caring attitude and demeanor. I thought that really said a lot. Following Jesus really is all about love.

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I saw him start out really wanting it to work within the "staylds" theme, but slowly sliding down that slippery slop, as so many of us do, who start questioning, seriously. It's difficult for some of us to question without, then, starting to emote about what we "think" we are hearing...getting upset, sad, angry, the whole gamut of emotions that go with the feelings that we are losing something we loved.

The problem is that his more negative podcasts about the lds church will be around for a long time. People will listen to them and be influenced by them. And this is the problem with anyone who leaves the lds church or begins to focus on criticism of the lds church and returns. They can't take back those podcasts or blogs or writings.

But what they can do is disavow those podcasts, blogs and writings and begin to explain why they returned to the faith and begin anew.

There is no erasing the internet.

Edited by why me

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The problem is that his more negative podcasts about the lds church will be around for a long time. People will listen to them and be influenced by them. And this is the problem with anyone who leaves the lds church or begins to focus on criticism of the lds church and returns. They can't take back those podcasts or blogs or writings.

But what they can do is disavow those podcasts, blogs and writings and begin to explain why they returned to the faith and begin anew.

There is no erasing the internet.

Isn't this the problem with all sin? Who of us can take back an offensive word, an insult, uncaring words, much less every sin that we have committed. This is the challenge for each disciple of Christ, to repent of every sin or face the judgment and hear a litany of sins before our Savior. It is my humble opinion that we as disciples must stay in a constant state of penitence. Without repentance of all our sin we risk our own salvation.

A crisis of faith affects far more than our testimony and/or our membership in the Church; it affects every part of our lives. Those of us who have suffered or are suffering such a crisis know the pain of doubting so much of what once was held so dear. We enter the painful process of rebuilding our testimony on a more sure foundation in the hope that peace will return, confusion will be cast off, and that we can see clearly the will of our Father again. This is a process that can take time and that time varies for each person. John appears to be well on his way to recognizing where peace can be found.

Edited by Storm Rider

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He said, the Stake President didn't really have good answers to his questions. What resonated with John was the SP's loving, caring attitude and demeanor. I thought that really said a lot. Following Jesus really is all about love.

So has he said anything about his disbeliefs being resolved and him thinking of himself as a believer again or is it more of a sense of belonging to a loving community?

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The controversy over john and the maxwell institute can now be seen more clearly.

Don't assume that John Dehlin's version of that is accurate.

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Don't assume that John Dehlin's version of that is accurate.

Having seen at least that part of the podcast, he is at the very least leaving out some very significant details that aren't that attractive as one can see simply by going back over the threads that he participated on this board back last May (IIRC).

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So has he said anything about his disbeliefs being resolved and him thinking of himself as a believer again or is it more of a sense of belonging to a loving community?

Sounds like it is a bit of both. John has always considered himself a Mormon (these are his people, for better or worse). But, he says he is happier as a "believer". I don't think that means that he believes everything that is taught in the church (although, I can't speak for him - just going by what he said in the podcast). He has a basic testimony, which he outlines in the podcast. Have you had a chance to listen to it?

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I feel ript off...John talks about all those people who after leaving the church get divorced, participate in drugs and engage in wild sex parties and other so-called sins...and end up miserable.

Gee...I've left the church, I'm extremely happy, I've never been to a party where random sex was available, I've never taken drugs and I'm still married to the same woman I was alledgedly married to for time and all eternity... who it also happens is still activly involved with the church. This isn't how things are supposed to happen

Why is my non-believer life so wonderful, filled with so much happiness and joy and blessed with a wonderful family and children who crazy as it may seem love and appreciate me.

There is something diffenatley wrong....

No, there isn't. You're still luxiurating in the warm and loving nimbus that you lived in when you were in the Church. It might take it some time to wear off.

By the way, haven't you been banned, like, about ten times or something? Or are there multiple Craig Paxton's running around here? Not that I want you to leave or anything, it's just confusing.

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Sounds like it is a bit of both. John has always considered himself a Mormon (these are his people, for better or worse). But, he says he is happier as a "believer". I don't think that means that he believes everything that is taught in the church (although, I can't speak for him - just going by what he said in the podcast). He has a basic testimony, which he outlines in the podcast. Have you had a chance to listen to it?

I can't listen to podcasts...phase out and miss important stuff. Am reading what is quoted in various places which is how I know about what he said about Dan and Lou, etc. at least on the podcast. Don't know if he adds details in his responses.

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Don't assume that John Dehlin's version of that is accurate.

I am not assuming that at all. But we now know that John was contemplating a return and that was my point. No reason to be critical of MormonStories if John himself was critical of it too and distancing himself away from the negative behavior,

This being said, if john was still negative about the church and leading people away, I think that apologists should have exposed his bias with MormonStories.

Edited by why me

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I can't listen to podcasts...phase out and miss important stuff. Am reading what is quoted in various places which is how I know about what he said about Dan and Lou, etc. at least on the podcast. Don't know if he adds details in his responses.

He tells the same basic story that he told before. Someone inside MI told him a "hit piece" had been written about him...something tying him to a missionary death, when he was on his mission. He had just finished giving the church the "study" he had prepared on why people leave the church. He claimed to be helping the church...and, yes, I do believe he was planning to go back, at some point. He didn't think this piece would be good for him or the church. He got in touch with an Apostle, in an attempt to put a stop to it. That seemed to have worked.

I don't, personally, know if all of that is accurate, but he is, at least, consistent in what he has told about his side of it.

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He got in touch with an Apostle, in an attempt to put a stop to it. That seemed to have worked.

Seventy, not an apostle, but he threatened to go higher up if it wasn't stopped at once IIRC and basically did in the second email after Dan told him he didn't appreciate the first email and its implications as well as telling him he didn't have time or the desire to deal with it due to the death of his brother as well as mentioning having to deal the police over some threats from a violent exmormon.

http://www.mormondia...entry1209121303

Okay, now that I am reading the actual email it does look like he appealed to an apostle (one doesn't call seventies "elder", right?), but my memory says that he conversed with a seventy about it....perhaps someone who is not supposed to be going to sleep right now can get the correct info.

add-on: too tired to think but google came to the rescue, seventies are called "Elder"...can't imagine why I didn't remember that tonight when I remember the actual name of the seventy that is rumoured to have been involved with the "Elder" in front of his name, lol.

Edited by calmoriah

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No, there isn't. You're still luxiurating in the warm and loving nimbus that you lived in when you were in the Church. It might take it some time to wear off.

By the way, haven't you been banned, like, about ten times or something? Or are there multiple Craig Paxton's running around here? Not that I want you to leave or anything, it's just confusing.

He was banned (ex'd) but after a little while on the outside he was accepted back. Atleast that's the way I experienced it.

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He tells the same basic story that he told before. Someone inside MI told him a "hit piece" had been written about him...something tying him to a missionary death, when he was on his mission. He had just finished giving the church the "study" he had prepared on why people leave the church. He claimed to be helping the church...and, yes, I do believe he was planning to go back, at some point. He didn't think this piece would be good for him or the church. He got in touch with an Apostle, in an attempt to put a stop to it. That seemed to have worked.

I don't, personally, know if all of that is accurate, but he is, at least, consistent in what he has told about his side of it.

Did I hear right, was the hit piece 100 or 200 pgs. long?

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He was banned (ex'd) but after a little while on the outside he was accepted back. Atleast that's the way I experienced it.

If he had been accepted back by the mods, he would likely not have had to change his username to something new-they would have probably just reactivated his old account.

Also, being banned from the board has nothing to do with being excommunicated. :)

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If he had been accepted back by the mods, he would likely not have had to change his username to something new-they would have probably just reactivated his old account.

Also, being banned from the board has nothing to do with being excommunicated. :)

I failed at being on the funny side with the ex'd (excommunication) comment. But as I said I was banned and on the outside until one day I was able to comment once again, accepted. Short story made long, sorry. I'm confused did he change his username? Edited by Tacenda

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Don't assume that John Dehlin's version of that is accurate.

I certainly don't, for the simple reason that I know his version of that story is patently false.

I have learned to assume that everything John Dehlin does is driven by his overwhelming need to draw attention to himself. I have also learned that he has no compunction whatsoever to twist the truth in order to present himself as someone of importance who possesses power and influence.

As the de facto leader of the alienated Latter-day Saints who once flew the Mormonstories banner, Dehlin was able to enjoy some measure of that sense of importance he craves. Within the Church, Dehlin will never be able to replicate the sense of power and influence he enjoyed over the course of the past few years. Therefore I can confidently predict that this will be his last rebound back into church activity, and it will not last very long. Whether or not he can once again reclaim the scepter of his former influence among his apostate friends remains to be seen. But I doubt it. Rather, I suspect he will then see fulfilled at least one portion of Joseph Smith's often-quoted prophecy: "[He] shall be despised by those that [once] flattered [him]."

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I failed at being on the funny side with the ex'd (excommunication) comment. But as I said I was banned and on the outside until one day I was able to comment once again, accepted. Short story made long, sorry. I'm confused did he change his username?

It used to be just plain Craig Paxton i believe, no @ symbols (unless i'm remembering wrong, which could certainly be the case).

Are you sure you were banned? Your experience sounds more like a suspension, which typically lasts a few days and then is lifted.

But you don't have to reply to that question since i don't want to derail the thread anymore than i have already.

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I have learned to assume that everything John Dehlin does is driven by his overwhelming need to draw attention to himself.

A Freudian affliction from which most, if not all, who post here suffer.

I largely agree with your analysis of Bro Dehlin. But, I'd probably be keeping my powder dry to criticize him after his rebound fails, rather than to criticize him for attempting a rebound.

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. But, I'd probably be keeping my powder dry to criticize him after his rebound fails, rather than to criticize him for attempting a rebound.

Why the need to do either?

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I certainly don't, for the simple reason that I know his version of that story is patently false.

I have learned to assume that everything John Dehlin does is driven by his overwhelming need to draw attention to himself. I have also learned that he has no compunction whatsoever to twist the truth in order to present himself as someone of importance who possesses power and influence.

As the de facto leader of the alienated Latter-day Saints who once flew the Mormonstories banner, Dehlin was able to enjoy some measure of that sense of importance he craves. Within the Church, Dehlin will never be able to replicate the sense of power and influence he enjoyed over the course of the past few years. Therefore I can confidently predict that this will be his last rebound back into church activity, and it will not last very long. Whether or not he can once again reclaim the scepter of his former influence among his apostate friends remains to be seen. But I doubt it. Rather, I suspect he will then see fulfilled at least one portion of Joseph Smith's often-quoted prophecy: "[He] shall be despised by those that [once] flattered [him]."

Wow... way to let the guy work through the repentance process. Already decided that he'll fail?

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The problem is that his more negative podcasts about the lds church will be around for a long time. People will listen to them and be influenced by them. And this is the problem with anyone who leaves the lds church or begins to focus on criticism of the lds church and returns. They can't take back those podcasts or blogs or writings.

But what they can do is disavow those podcasts, blogs and writings and begin to explain why they returned to the faith and begin anew.

There is no erasing the internet.

I don't want to read to much into what you are saying about the podcasts being negative but I'm struggling to see them that way. To call them negative or against the church, in my opinion, is to suggest that we must keep our historical blemishes, controversial teachings, and theological development hidden. I think that the Lord's church can withstand such transparency and scrutiny.

That said, since I have not analyzed everything John has ever posted online I certainly agree with your statement that there is no erasing the internet.

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A Freudian affliction from which most, if not all, who post here suffer.

I largely agree with your analysis of Bro Dehlin. But, I'd probably be keeping my powder dry to criticize him after his rebound fails, rather than to criticize him for attempting a rebound.

Had he not been quite recently proclaiming that he "got Dan Peterson fired," I might have been inclined to cut the guy some slack in the short term. Unfortunately, everything I have seen from Dehlin in the past few months serves to confirm my sense of his motivations. A man may, I believe, change his stars, but I don't foresee this leopard changing his spots.

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It used to be just plain Craig Paxton i believe, no @ symbols (unless i'm remembering wrong, which could certainly be the case).

Are you sure you were banned? Your experience sounds more like a suspension, which typically lasts a few days and then is lifted.

But you don't have to reply to that question since i don't want to derail the thread anymore than i have already.

Possible a suspension I guess. It was terrible. But probably deserved.

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As many here have stated, time will tell, but let it tell! All this speculation is not helpful.

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