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Tacenda

Would You Stay Lds If It Was Found That The Bom Was Not Historical?

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As I've read over the thread "Fairy Tales and the BOM". I see that there are a few that believe in the church no matter if the BOM is historical or not. Is it because they feel the church is the best one to raise a family in, do they feel the LDS people among the best they've met? Do LDS make the best neighbors? Is there a light in their countenance? Do these attributes make you think you would stay LDS no matter what. Even if the church is like any other Christian church? Or would you leave and find another church or become Athiest? My personal opinion is that if the church ever determined that the BOM wasn't historical but wanted to continue to have a Christ centered church, (somewhat like the RLDS aka Community of Christ church did) I believe I would stay LDS!

Edited by Tacenda

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As I've read over the thread "Fairy Tales and the BOM". I see that there are a few that believe in the church no matter if the BOM is historical or not. Is it because they feel the church is the best one to raise a family in, do they feel the LDS people among the best they've met? Do LDS make the best neighbors? Is there a light in their countenance? Do these attributes make you think you would stay LDS no matter what. Even if the church is like any other Christian church? Or would you leave and find another church or become Athiest? My personal opinion is that if the church ever determined that the BOM wasn't historical but wanted to continue to have a Christ centered church, (somewhat like the RLDS aka Community of Christ church did) I believe I would stay LDS!

Probably go back to being an Agnostic. However extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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I am "LDS" and the Book of Mormon is not historical. Neither is the Bible. Scripture tells stories that might have a basis in history but the intent was never to put across historical facts. At best, the Book of Mormon is a scriptural book presented as a "historical novel". I believe the Book of Mormon is Joseph Smith's creation, entirely, with input from a wealth of sources, including the archaeological theories of his time. Joseph Smith believed in his vision of the ancient Americas; believed that it was accurate and literal as he "received" it, and he had the entire book, plot and doctrine, everything, in his head until he finally got it out. Then he more or less forgot about it. He never taught his sermons from the Book of Mormon, always the Bible....

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As I've read over the thread "Fairy Tales and the BOM". I see that there are a few that believe in the church no matter if the BOM is historical or not. Is it because they feel the church is the best one to raise a family in, do they feel the LDS people among the best they've met? Do LDS make the best neighbors? Is there a light in their countenance? Do these attributes make you think you would stay LDS no matter what. Even if the church is like any other Christian church? Or would you leave and find another church or become Athiest? My personal opinion is that if the church ever determined that the BOM wasn't historical but wanted to continue to have a Christ centered church, (somewhat like the RLDS aka Community of Christ church did) I believe I would stay LDS!

I would too, and I am glad you came to that conclusion- not because I doubt that it IS historical, but it shows, in my opinion, an advanced understanding of what religion is all about. It is about what brings meaning to your life, and has nothing to do with history.

Edited by mfbukowski

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As I've read over the thread "Fairy Tales and the BOM". I see that there are a few that believe in the church no matter if the BOM is historical or not. Is it because they feel the church is the best one to raise a family in, do they feel the LDS people among the best they've met? Do LDS make the best neighbors? Is there a light in their countenance? Do these attributes make you think you would stay LDS no matter what. Even if the church is like any other Christian church? Or would you leave and find another church or become Athiest? My personal opinion is that if the church ever determined that the BOM wasn't historical but wanted to continue to have a Christ centered church, (somewhat like the RLDS aka Community of Christ church did) I believe I would stay LDS!

Well said. I am "there" and have been for years. Of course, I am a mostly silent presence in church, because the Church would not welcome "heretical" opinions in class....

Edited by Questing Beast

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I choose to believe. However I'm not blind to the implications of that belief. If it were conclusively proven that Jesus was/is a fictitious person(This side of the grave I don't expect we'll ever have that proof). What would be the point of belief? It doesn't require a specific deity to be a good person. To treat others fairly, to love your family, to be a good and productive citizen.

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What if you discovered that you had two heads ahd three legs. Are you human, what kind of job would you get?

What if............ this is another of those silly "what if" questions by those with too much time on their hands.

Edited by cdowis

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What if you discovered that you had two heads ahd three legs. Are you human, what kind of job would you get?

What if............ this is another of those silly "what if" questions by those with too much time on their hands.

I think my question was valid. It shows that one doesn't have to run if they've had a faith crisis. And there is something in this religion that instills, and I feel, see and believe it. Edited by Tacenda

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My personal opinion is that if the church ever determined that the BOM wasn't historical but wanted to continue to have a Christ centered church, (somewhat like the RLDS aka Community of Christ church did) I believe I would stay LDS!

Under this scenario, what would the Church then say the Book of Mormon is--and how does that fundamentally differ from what it says it is now? In any case, of course I would stay LDS.

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I'm still here!

The church is a good organization that I'm culturally and family connected with, so long as it doesn't get in the way of moral choices, I'm content with it.

Cdowis, your comment is flippant and way off the mark. There is no reason to believe in such humans and a virtual mountain of evidence and lack of evidence to doubt the bom. Doesn't mean you can't believe anyway, but don't pretend the facts are in any way supportive of a historical bom. Which makes it fully appropriate to discuss.

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I'm still here!

The church is a good organization that I'm culturally and family connected with, so long as it doesn't get in the way of moral choices, I'm content with it.

Cdowis, your comment is flippant and way off the mark. There is no reason to believe in such humans and a virtual mountain of evidence and lack of evidence to doubt the bom. Doesn't mean you can't believe anyway, but don't pretend the facts are in any way supportive of a historical bom. Which makes it fully appropriate to discuss.

There are more facts supporting the BoM than there is the Bible, but people still believe the Bible.

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There are more facts supporting the BoM than there is the Bible, but people still believe the Bible.

No complaints here! Just saying it is unfair to claim there is no point in discussing the possibility that the bom (or the bible) could be unhistorical.

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I think an equally interesting hypothetical would be: if the people/claims in the Book of Mormon were scientifically verified to be accurate i.e. a group really did come from ancient Israel and formed a civilization (or were part of a greater civilization), how many people would become LDS?

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As I've read over the thread "Fairy Tales and the BOM". I see that there are a few that believe in the church no matter if the BOM is historical or not. Is it because they feel the church is the best one to raise a family in, do they feel the LDS people among the best they've met? Do LDS make the best neighbors? Is there a light in their countenance? Do these attributes make you think you would stay LDS no matter what. Even if the church is like any other Christian church? Or would you leave and find another church or become Athiest? My personal opinion is that if the church ever determined that the BOM wasn't historical but wanted to continue to have a Christ centered church, (somewhat like the RLDS aka Community of Christ church did) I believe I would stay LDS!

If it were not true, then what would be the point...same for the Bible, then I would have no God to believe in, tis logic.

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If it were not true, then what would be the point...same for the Bible, then I would have no God to believe in, tis logic.

I think you could find reasons to believe in a God even if the Bible or BoM were found to be historically untrue, you just would not know as much about the Supreme Being/intelligent designer/whatever you would want to call him/her/it.

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As I've read over the thread "Fairy Tales and the BOM". I see that there are a few that believe in the church no matter if the BOM is historical or not. Is it because they feel the church is the best one to raise a family in, do they feel the LDS people among the best they've met? Do LDS make the best neighbors? Is there a light in their countenance? Do these attributes make you think you would stay LDS no matter what. Even if the church is like any other Christian church? Or would you leave and find another church or become Athiest? My personal opinion is that if the church ever determined that the BOM wasn't historical but wanted to continue to have a Christ centered church, (somewhat like the RLDS aka Community of Christ church did) I believe I would stay LDS!

I guess I wouldn't have to worry about it because I would be no longer. My being is dependent on the existence of a God, and if there is no God, I am not. And since it was God who revealed the truth of the Book of Mormon to me, if it turns out the Book is not what it claims to be, then God is not, and I am not, and this whole exercise does not exist.

Have I been deluded into my conviction of what God told me? If so, then I doubt that my deluded mind would allow for a shift in the paradigm where my previous delusion fails and I cease to be. So, I guess I'll stay LDS because the model demands it for my own existence.

Of course, if life ever becomes so intolerable that a state of non-existence becomes preferable to a state of existence, then I suppose my mind might allow a paradigm shift into oblivion. But I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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I am fairly certain that much of the religious writings in my own religion are historically inaccurate. It is not a major point for me. Religious texts are a point of departure. They are not the final destination in one's religious experience.

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As I've read over the thread "Fairy Tales and the BOM". I see that there are a few that believe in the church no matter if the BOM is historical or not. Is it because they feel the church is the best one to raise a family in, do they feel the LDS people among the best they've met? Do LDS make the best neighbors? Is there a light in their countenance? Do these attributes make you think you would stay LDS no matter what. Even if the church is like any other Christian church? Or would you leave and find another church or become Athiest? My personal opinion is that if the church ever determined that the BOM wasn't historical but wanted to continue to have a Christ centered church, (somewhat like the RLDS aka Community of Christ church did) I believe I would stay LDS!

I think it would depend on how far off the mark it was, historically. History is about what happened, and if some account of what happened is so far off the mark that it has no resemblence at all to what actually happened, in any context, no matter how you try to see the correlations, then no, I don't think I'd still want to be a member of this Church, or any other Church I know about on this Earth.

I joined this Church because God told me the Book of Mormon is a record of former inhabitants of this American continent, which Joseph was able to translate by the power and gifts of God, so if I somehow found out it wasn't that would overturn what God had told me. What would be the point in trusting God on anything else? I wouldn't be believing the Bible anymore either, or the D&C, or the General Conference addresses which the Holy Spirit told me those things that had happened happened. My world would be turned totally upside down and I wouldn't have any way to know what the truth really was, because what God had said happened wouldn't be what had happened.

I'm not worried, though. I know what has really happened, to a certain extent, enough that I can no longer be shaken.

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No complaints here! Just saying it is unfair to claim there is no point in discussing the possibility that the bom (or the bible) could be unhistorical.

I don't believe such a discussion is productive of anything good. We of the material mind soon start debating evidences for truth(faith) claims. Something that is oxymoronic. That ancient Troy was shown to have existed in no way substantiates the existence of the ancient Greek Gods.

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I am "LDS" and the Book of Mormon is not historical. Neither is the Bible. Scripture tells stories that might have a basis in history but the intent was never to put across historical facts. At best, the Book of Mormon is a scriptural book presented as a "historical novel". I believe the Book of Mormon is Joseph Smith's creation, entirely, with input from a wealth of sources, including the archaeological theories of his time. Joseph Smith believed in his vision of the ancient Americas; believed that it was accurate and literal as he "received" it, and he had the entire book, plot and doctrine, everything, in his head until he finally got it out. Then he more or less forgot about it. He never taught his sermons from the Book of Mormon, always the Bible....

A rather radical theory that really can't bear up under even cursory scrutiny, unless God is in on it.

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What if you discovered that you had two heads ahd three legs. Are you human, what kind of job would you get?

What if............ this is another of those silly "what if" questions by those with too much time on their hands.

Are we not suppose to ponder on the Gospel and our lives? A natural question is, "what if it isn't true".

What if you believed a messenger of God told you decapitate a unconscious person?

What if you believed a messenger of God told you build a huge boat, even though you had never seen or heard of rain?

What if you believed a messenger of God told you your barren wife was with child and you were to name him John?

What if you believed a messenger of God told you commit genocide on every man, woman, child and beast in a certain region?

What if you failed in the genocide and President Monson drew his sword and killed the last person?

What if the Prophet stated that the Priesthood would be extended to all worthy males?

Each of the above could also be phrased "what would you do if", and since we are to liken the scriptures unto ourselves, we should all put ourselves in the place of Nephi, Abraham, Issaac, Jacob, Zachariah, Solomon, David, Ruth, Joshua, etc etc etc.

We are instructed to put ourselves those situations and I imagine that it is an unprofitable servant who wouldn't.

Edited by DavidB

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Oh, you're right. The Book of Mormon is indeed on much stronger historical footing than the Bible. I mean ... Jeff Lindsay. It really doesn't get any better in terms of scholarship. I'm embarrassed I even provided a link to Biblical Archaeology Review. I should probably just cancel my subscription now.

Edited by Gervin

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What if Pres Monson were an alien from planet Hoth, would I still consider him a prophet? How exactly would we prove that the book of Mormon is not historically accurate? Certainly the bible has serious historical problems such as when Christ was born, the lack of a Jericho, and a host of other problems. Since the evidence used to disprove a book tends to provide support for the Book of Mormon I don't feel there is anything to worry about

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