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ScriptureLover

For Elihu - God is Certainly Described as a Man

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Johnny -

Again a vision is a representation.

You are, of course, grossly oversimplifying what a vision is. The TWOT (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament) shows it is much, *much* more than a mere representation. It is also ther reality of the future, as Paul is trying to show you. Granted you won't believe what we say to you, but what about the Biblical authorities and scholars?

Because of the importance of the revelatory vision as means of the prophets' special knowledge of divine things, the word sometimes means to speak as a prophet (Isa 30:10, "Prophesy not unto us right things"). It might be that this active sense (prophesying, to speak as a prophet), rather than the passive one of receiving prophetic revelation, may be the sense of Isa 1:1 ("which he saw," etc.)and other similar passages (Isa 2:1; Isa 13:1; Lam 2:14; Ezek 13:8; Amos 1:1; etc.). To speak even as a false prophet may be designated by haz

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Kevin Graham  writes,

Why do Trinitarians insist that God being "spirit" means He doesn't have form?

"Spirit" can have form ... angels are spirit and they can have form.

The Father is not bound to a form as revealed by by Eph 4:6

Ephesians 4

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

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ScriptureLover  writes,

You are, of course, grossly oversimplifying what a vision is.

Do you believe that Jesus is a Lamb because this is what the apostle John saw in his vision?

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Why do Trinitarians insist that God being "spirit" means He doesn't have form?

Can you answer that for me Johnny?

I've already said they believe their God is a form of gas, or an electrical field of some sort - an energy force.

They didn't deny it.

Paul O

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Paul Osborne  writes,

God calls us his children and that includes the Son of God. The whole family in heaven looks to God as a Father as any child would on earth.

We are called "children" but we are not children by nature. Jesus is the only Son of God by nature.

Hence, the Bible does in fact reveal that Christ has a perfect penis. Right?

Could you provide the verse?

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Johnny -

What does this have do with the fact that the Father is pure spirit and does not have the form of a man?

Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,

That's Genesis 1:26...........I am curious as to why you think God has no form when man does. And that form of man is supposed to be after God's FORM......what is God's likeness Johnny? Spirit? Then why are WE also not spirit like God? Why are we physical, but God is not, yet we are in his LIKENESS............?

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== "Spirit" can have form ... angels are spirit and they can have form.

Where does it say Angels are spirit? The Bible says angels have gender, and that male angels came down and had sex with humans. Kinda hard to do without a physical body.

== The Father is not bound to a form as revealed by by Eph 4:6

Who said anything about being "bound to a form"? You said he doesn't have form because he is spirit. This is like saying I don't have form because the moon isn't made of cheese. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Now you admit spirit isn't necessarily formless at all. This is doubletalk. It is a word game that 21st century Christians play, because it has been commonly understood in our day that "spirit" is some incorporeal invisible "stuff." But is that how the earliest Christians understood it?

But don't you think it is somewhat important to know what the earliest Christians understood?

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ScriptureLover  writes,

That's Genesis 1:26...........I am curious as to why you thik God has no form when man does. And that form of man is supposed to be after God's FORM......what is God's likeness Johnny? Spirit? Then why are WE also not spirit like God? Why are we physical, but God is not, yet we are in his LIKENESS............?

Scripture reveals "our image" ... The Father is spirit, the Son of God has the form of a human body ... Man has the form of a human body which is animated by a spiritual soul.

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Hence, the Bible does in fact reveal that Christ has a perfect penis. Right?

Could you provide the verse?

Why do I need to provide a verse, Johnny. Can't you read between the lines? Either Christ has a perfect penis or he does not? Certainly you don

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Johnny -

We are called "children" but we are not children by nature. Jesus is the only Son of God by nature.

Paul contends we are the very offspring of God...........why do you disagee with him?

Acts 17:28 For 'In him we live and move and have our being,' as even some of your poets have said, 'For we too are his offspring.'

The BDAG lexicon is fascinating as to what "offspring" means!

genos {ghen'-os} Meaning:

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Kevin Graham  writes,

Where does it say Angels are spirit? The Bible says angels have gender, and that male angels came down and had sex with humans. Kinda hard to do without a physical body.

Heb 1:14 says they are "ministering spirits".

Who said anything about being "bound to a form"? 

Is Eph 4:6 bound to a form?

But don't you think it is somewhat important to know what the earliest Christians understood? 

Below are some of the Early Church teachings:

- The Father and the Son being one. And, the Son being in the Father and the Father in the Son (Athenagoras 177 AD)

- No division of substance, but merely an extension. Christ is Spirit of Spirit ... the two are one (Tertullian 197AD)

- The Logos is God, being the substance of God (Hippolytus 220AD)

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Paul Osborne  writes,

Does Christ have a perfect penis?

Could you provide the verse then I will give you an answer?

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ScriptureLover  writes,

Paul contends we are the very offspring of God...........why do you disagee with him?

We are the offspring because God created us.

Note this Johnny, the SAME descent or race............. The BDAG also emphasizes Genos means fundamentally - ancestral stock, descendant as well as common ancestry, family, relatives

Why do you think we need to born again?

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== Heb 1:14 says they are "ministering spirits".

Very good. So now that we know angels are both spirits and physical beings, why should we presume God who is spirit, cannot also be physical?

== Is Eph 4:6 bound to a form?

You said God is not "bound to form" as if it were something we were supposed to defend. It isn't.

== Below are some of the Early Church teachings:

You're not answering my question, so I'll ask it a third time. Do you think it is important to know what the earliest Christians understood by the word "spirit"?

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Kevin Graham  writes,

Very good. So now that we know angels are both spirits and physical beings, why should we presume God who is spirit, cannot also be physical?

I know nothing that would make me presume God is physcial.

God is the creator and angels are creatures.

You're not answering my question, so I'll ask it a third time. Do you think it is important to know what the earliest Christians understood by teh word "spirit"? 

Jesus also helps understand "spirit", he said:

John 3

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

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Johnny,

Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Was the voice female or male?

Paul O

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Note this Johnny, the SAME descent or race............. The BDAG also emphasizes Genos means fundamentally - ancestral stock, descendant as well as common ancestry, family, relatives

Why do you think we need to born again?

johnny,

I've not read enough of your posts to even attempt to discern your religious affiliation however, your rhetorical question here is wrong headed at best. It appears to me that the discussion involves God as Man. The nature of God, His attributes as described in scripture have been presented and to this you ask why we need to be born again when you most certainly know you're referring to spiritual rebirth. Why?

regards,

widdley

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Paul Osborne  writes,

Was the voice female or male?

What does scripture say?

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widdley  writes,

The nature of God, His attributes as described in scripture have been presented and to this you ask why we need to be born again when you most certainly know you're referring to spiritual rebirth. Why?

Men are not Christ's brethren by nature. Through adoption (justification) men can become sons of God.

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