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ScriptureLover

For Elihu - God is Certainly Described as a Man

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Hooberus -

Was the Father being born of a woman, crucified, etc. that same time (present tense) as Jesus? I don't even think that your Church teaches this.

Joseph Smith's interpretation was that the Son does the Father's will (that's certainly the Biblical teaching as well). The prophet utilized these verses to show that the Son followed the Father's will throughout his lifetime..........in all his activities...........whatsoever the Father did, the Son did.........

Here is how the Prophet puts it (Teachings, p. 312) -

As the Father hath power in Himself, so hath the Son power in Himself, to lay down His life and take it again, so He has a body of His own. The Son doeth what He hath seen the Father do: then the Father hath some day laid down His life and taken it again; so He has a body of His own; each one will be in His own body; and yet the sectarian world believe the body of the Son is identical with the Father's.

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Joseph Smith's interpretation was that the Son does the Father's will (that's certainly the Biblical teaching as well). The prophet utilized these verses to show that the Son followed the Father's will throughout his lifetime..........in all his activities...........whatsoever the Father did, the Son did.........

The fact remains that the scriptures use the present tense, so as I said earlier:

Jesus was not saying that he was doing what the Father did (past tense), but what the Father does (present tense). Therefore the passage does not seem to offer much support for the concept of the Father once (in the past) being a mortal man on another world.

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Johnny -

Paul O. would say our Heavenly Father was sinner because Mormonism teaches he was a man like us and a man like us means that he was sinful.

Last time I checked, neither myself nor Paul O. was the prophet or the scripture. We're trying to learn here with you in our limited senses.............perhaps he misstated something or you misunderstood what he means..........I will let him speak for himself. As for official Mormon theology, we have *never* taught the Father Himself was sinful anymore than Jesus ever was..........

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ScriptureLover  writes,

As for official Mormon theology, we have *never* taught the Father Himself was sinful anymore than Jesus ever was.......... 

Clearly the official LDS teaching book Gospel Principals reveals that God was a man like us ... you would agree that you and me are sinners.

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Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God

This was a wonderful vision given to St. John.

Here we see angels standing and God sitting. We have a throne and a floor. Angels fall down and worship the Man who sits on the throne while all along Christ; the Lamb of God is in the midst of the throne.

The Bible declares God is a Man and that he sits on a throne where angels stand about him and give obeisance. But I'm pretty sure that Johnny will yet again deny the Personage of the Father who sits before his angels.

Paul O

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Johnny -

Clearly the official LDS teaching book Gospel Principals reveals that God was a man like us

The lesson manuals are hardly scripture or LDS doctrine.

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Johnny -
Paul O. would say our Heavenly Father was sinner because Mormonism teaches he was a man like us and a man like us means that he was sinful.

Last time I checked, neither myself nor Paul O. was the prophet or the scripture. We're trying to learn here with you in our limited senses.............perhaps he misstated something or you misunderstood what he means..........I will let him speak for himself. As for official Mormon theology, we have *never* taught the Father Himself was sinful anymore than Jesus ever was..........

I agree.

We LDS have the right to explore our own understanding of who God is and where he has come from and where he is going.

I personally believe that God was a man like us and lived on an earth to be tested by his own Father.

I think the chances that he was imperfect are quite high. Why do I think this? My own experience in life bears witness that sin is just too hard to resist and unless one is ordained a Savior of worlds the ability to resist sin is just too hard.

Yes, I believe the Father was a sinner but was washed clean by a plan of salvation that was provided by his Father.

Paul O

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Johnny, I'm still waiting for you to tell me about the sexual functions of Christ's glorious resurrected body. I mean no disrespect but you believe he has a body and I want to know if you believe his penis is fully operative, perfect in every way.

I think this is important.

Let's talk about it.

Paul O

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The lesson manuals are hardly scripture or LDS doctrine.

They are not scripture, however, according to the dictionary definition of doctrine they would be doctrine.

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Paul Osborne  writes,

Johnny, I'm still waiting for you to tell me about the sexual functions of Christ's glorious resurrected body.

Christ has the same body as he had on earth except it is glorified.

The Father on the other hand is neither man nor woman. He is pure spirit.

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Jesus was not saying that he was doing what the Father did (past tense), but what the Father does (present tense). Therefore the passage does not seem to offer much support for the concept of the Father once (in the past) being a mortal man on another world.

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Explain how Jesus sees his Father sit on a throne and then do the same thing.

Do you believe there really is a throne? Angels are said to surround his throne and worship God. If the Father can sit on a throne, so also can the Son

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The Father on the other hand is neither man nor woman. He is pure spirit.

Neither man nor woman? How dreadful! I can

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Johnny continues to proclaim that God is spirit, as opposed to having a body. However, in light of the revelation of Jesus Christ we must ask in all seriousness, Is Jesus Christ God? Was he God as he stood there among his disciples in his glorious "sacred," resurrected body? There is but one answer that Johnny can give, and that is "yes, Jesus is God." But Johnny says "God is a spirit!" True, he is; but Jesus is also a spirit inside a body

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Paul Osborne  writes,

But I'm sure you will have your excuses of how there really isn't a throne because it's all symbolic; isn't that right Johnny?

Again a vision is a representation.

Now, if you would be so kind as to answer the question we can get started. 

The Bible does not reveal the sexual functions of Christ's of Christ's glorious resurrected body.

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ScriptureLover  writes,

Johnny continues to proclaim that God is spirit, as opposed to having a body. However, in light of the revelation of Jesus Christ we must ask in all seriousness, Is Jesus Christ God?

Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus is not the Father (THE God).

Was he God as he stood there among his disciples in his glorious "sacred," resurrected body?

He is fully God(divine) but he is not the Father (THE God).

But Johnny says "God is a spirit!" 

Our Heavenly Father(THE God) is a spirit.

if Jesus is God, and God is a spirit, he is an embodied spirit, just as we teach in the church.

Father (THE God) is not bound to a form.

Ephesians 4

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

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Paul Osborne  writes,

How is it you have the ability to tell me what a representation is when you know nothing of divine visions? Who made you a prophet?

Do you believe that each object in a vision is the actual object?

Do you believe that each vision of the same scene should be exactly alike?

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Now, if you would be so kind as to answer the question we can get started.

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Paul Osborne  writes,

Hence, the Bible does in fact reveal that Christ

What does this have do with the fact that the Father is pure spirit and does not have the form of a man?

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Why do Trinitarians insist that God being "spirit" means He doesn't have form?

Can you answer that for me Johnny?

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